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Old 11-05-2012, 05:32 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Armchair Scout View Post
I must say I disagree that Barner is better than LaMichael James. I do agree with you that Barner does a better job taking what he is given than James, but James was much more difficult to tackle and was even more elusive. James had/has much better leg drive and bounced off tacklers much more than Barner does. James also was more difficult to tackle in the open field and cut even quicker than Barner.

Barner does a better job getting north-south than James did and he has looked really good this year, better than he did this year, but I don't think he is quite as dynamic as James was.
Agree with this - Barner is more of a weaver, whereas James could cut sharply without dropping his speed. Barner has good speed, but I think is more of a product of the system.
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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Zach Line, SMU - 6'1" 230 lbs



Full disclosure - this video is about all I've seen of him, but based on that video he looks like a guy who can hack it in the NFL. Impresses from the very first run. It's not that there are a ton of highlight reel plays in here, but that he's consistently breaking tackles and getting extra yards. Simply does not go down on first contact.

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Old 11-17-2012, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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Zach Line, SMU - 6'1" 230 lbs



Full disclosure - this video is about all I've seen of him, but based on that video he looks like a guy who can hack it in the NFL. Impresses from the very first run. It's not that there are a ton of highlight reel plays in here, but that he's consistently breaking tackles and getting extra yards. Simply does not go down on first contact.
I have seen a lot of Zach Line. He will definitely get a shot at the next level. He runs really hard and is a load to bring down. At first glance he reminds me of Peyton Hillis...but that is where the comparison starts and ends. Hillis is a much better athlete with way more explosion. Line takes a while to get his motor revved up and has zero long speed. He was a middle linebacker before switching to RB in college. Most of his yards are a biproduct of defenses focusing on the pass. At the next level holes will close before he hits them. He has decent hands out of the backfield, and is dependable with the rock. I don't recall him fumbling much, if ever. He has rushed the ball over 700 times in college, so he has a good bit of mileage.

This isn't to completely knock him. He is a fierce competitor and gives everything he has, every play. He will likely become a fullback or H-back at the next level, and is the kind of player who will own his new position and wear the label with pride. He definitely loves the game. I'm not sure I see him being drafted, but he will almost certainly get a shot as an UDFA and I can easily see him working his way onto an NFL roster.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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Can Johnathan Franklin be the #1 back off the board this year? I feel like he's getting slept on, all the guy does is impress week in and week out.
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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Especially after today, I wonder where Denard Robinson might fit into this discussion. He's clearly one of the most explosive open-field runners in this class.
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:08 AM    (permalink
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Especially after today, I wonder where Denard Robinson might fit into this discussion. He's clearly one of the most explosive open-field runners in this class.
I would take Robinson in the 3rd. The guy is a game breaker and would be a perfect 3rd down/ Slot WR/ Wild Cat QB...
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:25 AM    (permalink
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Can Johnathan Franklin be the #1 back off the board this year? I feel like he's getting slept on, all the guy does is impress week in and week out.
I'm taking Franklin over Barner and Ellington. Stanford sort of exposed Barner last night. If Oregon doesnt have their trap game working and Barner can't get the edge on sweep plays, he's useless. He doesn't have great quickness. Stanford's front seven guys were able to run him down before he turned the corner several times. I'm more of a fan of Ellington but I'm not sure his style will work in the NFL at his size. More often than not, Franklin makes something out of nothing, he's putting up huge numbers with a mostly freshman OL. He has the quickest feet in this RB class and his legs never go dead on contact, so he can get those hidden yards that are so important in the NFL. In this wide open RB class he's really emerging.
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:06 AM    (permalink
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I've been going through a lot of running back footage this week, and I gotta say - you know it's a weak year for running backs when the top prospect is a senior. Right now, Montee Ball is the only player I watch who looks like an NFL starter. He's got the size, he's got nice feet, balance and change of direction, vision, and he looks like a decent pass blocker. He doesn't blow me away with any one thing, but he looks "NFL" to me. Don't see anyone else yet I'd be as comfortable picking if I was starting with nothing on my roster at running back and I was building a team.

Edit: rethinking, I see Zac Stacy and Christine Michael as looking like they have starting abilities, too. And Kenjon Barner if he goes to a team with a good offensive line. Rough RB rankings:

Montee Ball
Zac Stacy
Kenjon Barner
Denard Robinson
Christine Michael
Zach Line
Stepfan Taylor
Rex Burkhead
Johnathan Franklin
Andre Ellington

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Old 11-18-2012, 07:23 AM    (permalink
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Montee Ball is far and away the best senior running back...not sure why he isn't getting mentioned around here. He has nice size and he does a lot of things very well. He is even a solid receiver. Blocking is his only question mark.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:21 AM    (permalink
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Montee Ball is far and away the best senior running back...not sure why he isn't getting mentioned around here. He has nice size and he does a lot of things very well. He is even a solid receiver. Blocking is his only question mark.
Maybe because he's far and away. Other players I feel more like I'm projecting development, while Montee Ball is just very well-rounded and is comfortable with all the requirements of the position. I finally went back and watched him after going through a couple dozen other running backs, and my thoughts were along the lines of, "Oh yeah... Montee Ball's really good."
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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I have seen a lot of Zach Line. He will definitely get a shot at the next level. He runs really hard and is a load to bring down. At first glance he reminds me of Peyton Hillis...but that is where the comparison starts and ends. Hillis is a much better athlete with way more explosion. Line takes a while to get his motor revved up and has zero long speed. He was a middle linebacker before switching to RB in college. Most of his yards are a biproduct of defenses focusing on the pass. At the next level holes will close before he hits them. He has decent hands out of the backfield, and is dependable with the rock. I don't recall him fumbling much, if ever. He has rushed the ball over 700 times in college, so he has a good bit of mileage.

This isn't to completely knock him. He is a fierce competitor and gives everything he has, every play. He will likely become a fullback or H-back at the next level, and is the kind of player who will own his new position and wear the label with pride. He definitely loves the game. I'm not sure I see him being drafted, but he will almost certainly get a shot as an UDFA and I can easily see him working his way onto an NFL roster.
If Alfred Morris can be a starter in the NFL than Zach Line should be. Alfred Morris is not a really impressive runner and is not a sudden athlete but he runs hard and hits the open hole without dancing. I would bet Zach Line actually has more impressive mearsuarbles come combine time and could definitely have success at the next level.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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Tons of good running backs and guys near the bottom could turn out better than the ones near the top. And assuming certain juniors come out but some might come out and change things with guys like Dri Archer, Silas Redd or Eddie Lacey. This is how I have them though.

Le'Veon Bell Michigan State JR
Michael Dyer Arkansas State JR
Stepfan Taylor Stanford
Kenjon Barner Oregon
Ray Graham Pitt
Jonathan Franklin UCLA
Andre Ellington Clemson
Rex Burkhead Nebraska
Chris Thompson Florida State
Mike Gillislee Florida
Zach Lane SMU
Perry Jones Virginia
Knile Davis Arkansas
Mike James Miami FL
Montee Ball Wisconsin
Montel Harris Temple
Christine Michael Texas A&M
Theo Riddick Notre Dame
Curtis McNeal USC
Latavius Murray UCF
Zac Stacey Vanderbilt
Dennis Johnson Arkansas
Onterio McCalebb Auburn
Isi Sofele Cal
DJ Harper Boise State
Tyler Gaffney Stanford
Ronnie Wingo Jr. Arkansas
Larry Caper Michigan State
Ed Wesley TCU
Dominique Whaley Oklahoma
Darius Willis Indiana
Brandon Wegher Iowa
Washaun Ealey Jacksonville State
Michael Zordich Penn State
Sam McGuffie Rice

Guy like Perry Jones could really do well if he found the right team with his pass catching ability. Like the toughness and intensity McNeal has been running with lately on USC. Latavius Murray is a very talented back and could be damn good for an NFL team, same could be said for Zac Stacey.

I would say this years class, again depending on what juniors come out but there is a lot of depth, not many super stars but a lot of players later one that have potential to become good.



And maybe it is just me but Montee Ball, not a huge fan, any Wisconsin back scares me because name me the good ones they have produced, what Michael Bennett, friggin A.....exactly.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:05 PM    (permalink
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Forgot about Michael Dyer again.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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I'm an arkansas fan but I really like the game of Dennis Johnson. he never will be a top flight pick but he's without question IMHO an NFL back. he's extremely hard to bring down / doesn't go down on the first hit, he's a north and south runner, excellent out the backfield with the catch and is a top tier pass blocker.

he would be a picture perfect fit as for instance, a ray rice backup in Baltimore, they are clones.

His only 2 real issues is that he doesn't have breakaway speed and he is prone to fumbles from time to time; then again we bring him in cold quite oftne.

there is no way knile comes out this year. our true freshman is running better than he is right now. Saturday putting him in the game is literally what killed our momentum. he's not back and he tip toes /dances too much. he needs another year to get right.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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Chris Thompson will be seeking an extra year from the NCAA.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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Are there any potential late round hidden gems like Alfred Morris and Daryl Richardson? Really annoyed at the Jets scouting job last year that they waste a pick on Ganaway from Baylor and he doesn't even make the team and see guys taken after him like Morris and Richardson crush.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:08 PM    (permalink
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Are there any potential late round hidden gems like Alfred Morris and Daryl Richardson? Really annoyed at the Jets scouting job last year that they waste a pick on Ganaway from Baylor and he doesn't even make the team and see guys taken after him like Morris and Richardson crush.
Well, Zac Stacy is a guy whose name I've thrown out there a few times although I've really got no idea where his draft stock is at. As I've watched him play SEC defenses on a relatively weak team, I've developed the opinion that he'll be able to play NFL defenses, too. I think he's also got some things in common with those other two guys in that I don't have the feeling like he'll drop any jaws at the combine, but he's just a really good football player. Guys who don't come from football powerhouse schools or blow up the combine tend to slide, just because so many players look good in college and a GM's got to have a reason to make a pick that he can hang his hat on later. But Zac Stacy, to me, has the look of someone who could start in the NFL but, again, I think I may be one of the only people on this forum who's brought him into discussions. So that's my two cents.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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Starting to do some research on some small school later round finds.

Miguel Maysonet, Stony Brook:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCW3sKo20rs

Much like Alfred Morris, he looks like a one cut violent power back who is likely raw in other aspects of his game. Would've liked it if the person who made that youtube showed him pass blocking some, but I'm guessing he isn't well-rounded. With the right coaching maybe he could develop into something big, but as he is now I'd definitely want him in short yardage work.

Kerwynn Williams, Utah State:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib87GIDdbUU

Reminds me of Dexter McCluster, very effective in the passing game and obviously great in space. Don't see every-down back potential here, but he's an explosive player and could see him getting used as a pass-down back in the NFL, but possibly more as this is his first year starting he could still develop I'm sure.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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Kerwynn Williams, Utah State:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib87GIDdbUU

Reminds me of Dexter McCluster, very effective in the passing game and obviously great in space. Don't see every-down back potential here, but he's an explosive player and could see him getting used as a pass-down back in the NFL, but possibly more as this is his first year starting he could still develop I'm sure.
I was thinking about making the Kerwynn-McCluster comparison in the prospect comparison thread the other day.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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Zac Stacy is a guy that has the look of a guy that goes undrafted, but turns out to be a solid starter. I can see his career ranging somewhere between Pierre Thomas and Priest Holmes.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:34 AM    (permalink
Grizzlegom
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Just saw Sam McGuffie's name on Ozzy's list and it made me think of him when he was on Michigan. I feel like that was a REALLY long time ago and he should have been in the NFL by now. Isn't he a receiver at Rice? Does he have any real NFL value?
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Grizzlegom View Post
Just saw Sam McGuffie's name on Ozzy's list and it made me think of him when he was on Michigan. I feel like that was a REALLY long time ago and he should have been in the NFL by now. Isn't he a receiver at Rice? Does he have any real NFL value?
I cannot remember a player who's HS film was fun to watch but showed he had no real future as a D1 player as his.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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I'm not seeing any round 1 guys this draft year, just a bunch of round 2/round 3 types of which any might end up being the best depending on which team drafts them and how much playing time they get. I'll be shocked if we hear a RB's name called out in round 1.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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Zac Stacy is a guy that has the look of a guy that goes undrafted, but turns out to be a solid starter. I can see his career ranging somewhere between Pierre Thomas and Priest Holmes.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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I cannot remember a player who's HS film was fun to watch but showed he had no real future as a D1 player as his.
He was actually a pretty good player. At michigan he suffered some concussions but was pretty good as a true freshman.Transferred to rice because he was home sick and played well at RB - he has been a slot WR since and that is probably what his future will be at the next level.
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