Who is the current OROTY?

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by yo123

Worst. Thread. Post. Ever.

FYP (10 char)

[21ST]

When you made this thread you knew what you where doing.

[FUNBUNCHER]

People still think RGIII and Cam Newton are the same type of player??
Factually, you aren't getting what Robert is doing on Sundays if that's the case.

On a simplistic level, Robert is a far superior passer than Cam was as a rookie for starters.

[Monomach]

I don't agree with RG3 being in the MVP conversation...

...but I do agree that he's already a much better passer than Newton.

This is coming from a guy who hated on him all through the draft process and preseason, too. I admit it: I was wrong.

[Canadian_draft_fan]

Originally Posted by Monomach

I don't agree with RG3 being in the MVP conversation...

...but I do agree that he's already a much better passer than Newton.

This is coming from a guy who hated on him all through the draft process and preseason, too. I admit it: I was wrong.

Have to agree. RGIII as MVP is a little much, but he & Luck for ORoTy are neck & neck.

[FUNBUNCHER]

It's just hypothetical, but if the SKins run the table and win the NFCE, RGIII is going to get serious MVP consideration as he should.

This isn't a situation like Roethlisberger or FLacco who played with elite defenses as rookies and just had to manage the game.

If RGIII doesn't play like a pro bowler every game, the SKins don't win.
Robert completed over 70 percent of his passes tonight for 4 TDs and Washington barely held on to defeat the Cowboys.

Not likely to happen. Just saying.

[jsagan77]

Well Howie Long and JJ sure seem to think RG3 is MVP caliber so I guess I'm not the only one. As far as OROTY AFTER TODAY IT's not even close.

[bigbluedefense]

RGIII is amazing. So is Luck. Can we give co ROY?

This is the best 1,2 qb punch to come out in maybe forever. Wow.

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

Well Howie Long and JJ sure seem to think RG3 is MVP caliber so I guess I'm not the only one. As far as OROTY AFTER TODAY IT's not even close.

Why can't you make an argument without sounding like your trolling? Seriously dude chill the **** out. You don't have to make your point for RGIII by trying to discredit everyone else and make it seem like what they are doing is inferior.

There have been numerous stats, facts, and accomplishments brought up for Luck and your best rebuttle is "well you obviously haven't watched the Redskins play".

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

Why can't you make an argument without sounding like your trolling? Seriously dude chill the **** out. You don't have to make your point for RGIII by trying to discredit everyone else and make it seem like what they are doing is inferior.

There have been numerous stats, facts, and accomplishments brought up for Luck and your best rebuttle is "well you obviously haven't watched the Redskins play".

I did.

Luck = more passing yards
Rg3 = better everything else

I explained why. Still waiting on WHY Luck is the clear cut favorite. Haven't heard anything but because I said so's. Probably because there isn't any logic behind the assertion.

[XxXdragonXxX]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

It's hard when it's such a one sided argument for RG3... I've presented all the facts for RG3 so when the Luck camp produces some actual facts to prove their point we'll all be ecstatic.

Luck reads defenses better and plays on a team that had a worse record last year (But were 12-4 the year before.)


Duhhh


RG3 is OROTY at this point and its not even close.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

I did.

Luck = more passing yards
Rg3 = better everything else

I explained why. Still waiting on WHY Luck is the clear cut favorite. Haven't heard anything but because I said so's. Probably because there isn't any logic behind the assertion.

No one is saying it's clear cut. And if you think our arguments were nothing more than "I said so" then there's no point of even discussing this any further with you.

[AntoinCD]

If the question is who is playing better or more efficiently then it is RG3. However it's not just a case of looking at the numbers. Luck's offense requires much more cognitive process than RG3's. Griffin is asked to sell hard fakes and make one read throws. He has leans on the leagues 2nd rated running attack. Luck is asked to take deep drops and go through progressions. And despite RG3 being praised for having a better arm than Luck coming out Luck has to make more "NFL" type throws on a consistent basis.

RG3's long TDs against Dallas a great example of big numbers but not doing anything speical. The first one was a very good play fake which absolutely froze the safety. But this was a one read throw where if it wasn't open he would likely take off running. The next one was a horrible throw behind Garcon who made a great catch and was helped by a poor play from Carr.

[bigbluedefense]

To be fair to RGIII, he has one of the best PA fakes I've seen in awhile. He really sells it well.

[kBuc5]

Long shot but Martin is still in the race. Number 1 in the league in yards from scrimmage. Fourth in the league in rushing yards at 1000. (only 5 yards separates 3rd and 4th place). Lot of football left.

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

If the question is who is playing better or more efficiently then it is RG3. However it's not just a case of looking at the numbers. Luck's offense requires much more cognitive process than RG3's. Griffin is asked to sell hard fakes and make one read throws. He has leans on the leagues 2nd rated running attack. Luck is asked to take deep drops and go through progressions. And despite RG3 being praised for having a better arm than Luck coming out Luck has to make more "NFL" type throws on a consistent basis.

RG3's long TDs against Dallas a great example of big numbers but not doing anything speical. The first one was a very good play fake which absolutely froze the safety. But this was a one read throw where if it wasn't open he would likely take off running. The next one was a horrible throw behind Garcon who made a great catch and was helped by a poor play from Carr.

I think you are 1. Disregarding how fast you have to process information in the option read offense at the NFL level. You saw how fast he is able to get the ball out quickly. There is a reason this type of offense is ran by such few teams. It takes a special talent at QB for it to be effective.

2. How many times has Luck been bailed out by Wayne's stellar hands and TY's speed this year. These last two are the first games RG3 has had his recievers catch the ball when it wasn't perfect.

I mean you pick out two plays for RG3 that went for long TD's and yeah one wasn't perfect but the other was right on the money and is more of the reason RG3 leads the NFL in passing TD's over 25 yards. He'd have a few more if not for dropsies.

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

To be fair to RGIII, he has one of the best PA fakes I've seen in awhile. He really sells it well.

Quote a post of relevance and I'll discuss it. All I've seen are subjective posts stating that Luck's offense is more complicated (which I'd like to see the playbooks u guys have access to in order to make that declaration), he is the more efficient runner (grasping much?), He has a worse running game (so does Arod but you don't see it affect him do you?).

I mean yeah he's got more yards passing but this is OROTY we're talking about. I mean even though I think RG3 is the better QB this award is about who is the best offensive player and that's RG3 and I don't think it's close. And once you factor in the injuries and 18 mil in cap penalty plus the worst secondary in NFL history it just makes what he's done all that more impressive.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

If the question is who is playing better or more efficiently then it is RG3. However it's not just a case of looking at the numbers. Luck's offense requires much more cognitive process than RG3's. Griffin is asked to sell hard fakes and make one read throws. He has leans on the leagues 2nd rated running attack. Luck is asked to take deep drops and go through progressions. And despite RG3 being praised for having a better arm than Luck coming out Luck has to make more "NFL" type throws on a consistent basis.

RG3's long TDs against Dallas a great example of big numbers but not doing anything speical. The first one was a very good play fake which absolutely froze the safety. But this was a one read throw where if it wasn't open he would likely take off running. The next one was a horrible throw behind Garcon who made a great catch and was helped by a poor play from Carr.

'More cognitive processes'??
Are Luck's WRs running differential calculus routes? Are the defenses he's facing playing with 14 players??

Good QBs make presnap reads, recognize defensive adjustments after the snap, diagnose the coverages on their drops and make the CORRECT read and throw.

Most NFL pass plays are designed to spring one primary WR free or in single coverage, but the QB is expected to make adjustments off that primary read if he's covered.

RGIII does all of this.

You don't think RGIII is going through his progressions??
One of the biggest complaints early in the season from SKins fans was that sometimes Robert tried to go through all of his reads TWICE before throwing the football.

RGIII has made every manner of difficult and basic NFL throw this season.
The difference between what RGIII is asked to do versus Luck is that Luck is being asked to throw the ball 40+ times a game with little to no run game support.

Kyle and Mike believe in committing to the run game in order to keep the offense balanced and take the pressure off the passing attack.

Luck began to put more pressure on defenses and IMO become more effective as a passer when he decided to use his legs more.

When a LB or a safety has to creep to the LOS to contain Luck possibly getting outside the pocket and picking up yardage, huge holes open up in the passing game.

Taking deep drops isn't really the best strategy against a D like the Cowboys btw.

I think Luck is a deserving OROTY candidate, but don't make it sound as if Luck is playing the position at a much higher level of schematic and diagnostic complexity than Robert.

[Mufasa]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

If the question is who is playing better or more efficiently then it is RG3. However it's not just a case of looking at the numbers. Luck's offense requires much more cognitive process than RG3's. Griffin is asked to sell hard fakes and make one read throws. He has leans on the leagues 2nd rated running attack. Luck is asked to take deep drops and go through progressions. And despite RG3 being praised for having a better arm than Luck coming out Luck has to make more "NFL" type throws on a consistent basis.

RG3's long TDs against Dallas a great example of big numbers but not doing anything speical. The first one was a very good play fake which absolutely froze the safety. But this was a one read throw where if it wasn't open he would likely take off running. The next one was a horrible throw behind Garcon who made a great catch and was helped by a poor play from Carr.

The Redskins are the second rated running attack because of Griffin. Replace Griffin's 642 yards with Luck's 163 and the Redskins fall to 12th, just two spots above what the Colt's currently are.

[bigbluedefense]

I don't get why we're discussing WR talent. I'm sure you guys all saw the Skins/Cowboys game. Those WRs were wide open. Let's not sit here and pretend that RGIII doesn't have open WRs to throw to. Bc that's a load of crap.

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I don't get why we're discussing WR talent. I'm sure you guys all saw the Skins/Cowboys game. Those WRs were wide open. Let's not sit here and pretend that RGIII doesn't have open WRs to throw to. Bc that's a load of crap.

Let's make assumptions based off of one game shall we?

Ahh yes the neg reps starting to come in because you can't support your stance. Standard of dickcountdown cronies. Yes Luck and RG3 are both great rookies, that's not the argument here. And yes Dallas lost, deal with it.

[Caulibflower]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

Let's make assumptions based off of one game shall we?

You're like a guy who won't stop posting about Peyton Manning in 2006. And only posts about Peyton Manning. Oh hey, you have a television. You like the Colts. Sweet.

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by Caulibflower

You're like a guy who won't stop posting about Peyton Manning in 2006. And only posts about Peyton Manning. Oh hey, you have a television. You like the Colts. Sweet.

And what are u doing?

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

Let's make assumptions based off of one game shall we?

Ahh yes the neg reps starting to come in because you can't support your stance. Standard of dickcountdown cronies.

I'm an NFC East fan in NJ. You don't think I've seen at least 5 RGIII games by now? Like seriously?

But no. Let's assume I'm basing my opinion on 1 game bc it isn't the same opinion as yours. Makes much more sense.

Let's ignore how your rushing attack (that I admit RGIII is partly responsible for) has no effect on your passing game. Let's ignore how Indy's lack of run game effect's Luck bc Aaron Rodgers can play well without a run game.

Brilliant logic.

[Caulibflower]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

And what are u doing?

People aren't arguing with you because they think RGIII doesn't have any claim to the award, but because you don't understand that RGIII really is not "running away with it." And you've said things to that effect over and over again. He's had two great games in a row statistically. They follow a couple weeks of decidedly mediocre play. He's a rookie. He's up and down. If he has 5 more games like this and Andrew Luck's play plateaus, then he's got a leg up, sure. But Luck could also very easily have a huge game against Buffalo on Sunday. Then what? I'm sure you're still going to be stumping for RGIII, because you've made it clear through this entire thread that you really, really really want him to win. You don't really engage any of the serious criticism of him, or conversely, the very strong case Andrew Luck is making for his own OROTY campaign. You aren't engaging anyone in a real discussion, you're just saying how much you like RGIII and people are responding in kind. i.e., that your posts are annoying, even though RGIII is having a fantastic rookie year.