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Old 11-25-2012, 12:36 PM    (permalink
Babylon
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Originally Posted by SolidGold View Post
Sproles lasted til the 4th and he played the position in college. Robinson is transitioning to a different position in the Pros. Armanti Edwards was a second round pick a few years back - had the same skillset as Robinson and was picked in the 2nd -he has not shown he is worthy of that pick. Speed is great but plenty of faster guys drop in the draft. His name will get him drafted higher than it should but their will be faster guys available later in the draft.

Sam McGuffie has pretty similar measurable and runs track in college - he projects the same as Denard Robinson in terms of position in the pros and he will be available until late day 3 of the draft and might go UDFA. Rainey fell to the 5th round in the past draft.
Sam McGuffie, now there's a name from the past. Shouldn't he be used in comparisons to Wes Welker only?
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Old 11-25-2012, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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If you watch Sam McGuffie and Denard Robinson and can't see a significant difference in talent, then I don't know how anyone is supposed to have a serious conversation with you regarding this topic.
Seconded. Same with the Rainey comparison. Denard Robinson is obviously an elite-level open field runner. It's really just a question of whether he can do that starting from a backfield position, taking a handoff, or as a pass receiver. He's not "like Sam McGuffie," unless you mean that his Michigan highlight tapes sometimes make him look a level above the competition the way McGuffie's did when he was in high school.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:15 AM    (permalink
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I think he's played his way into day 2. What do you guys think?
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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I think over the past three games he's proven that he can be a running back. He's always had excellent vision and, despite being a speed back, he's a tough runner who can pick up additional yards. Since moving to running back, he has 46 carries, 320 yards, 7.0 ypc in three games. I still don't know where I'd draft him (probably mid-late 3rd round) but I do know that wouldn't try to move him to receiver or corner.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:52 AM    (permalink
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I liken him to Dexter McCluster in that he's an explosive RB/WR hybrid prospect. A lot different player in college though. They'll find a spot for him. I expect he will be used as a return man early in his career at least.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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I can't wait to see Robinson at the Senior Bowl. Interested to see how they use him in Mobile (RB? WR? CB? RS?) and also how he fairs. In my opinion that week will determine whether Robinson can be a Top 100 pick. Must show a willingness and ability to play elsewhere.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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I have a feeling he is going to be another Harvin if used correctly. He'll line up in the slot and catch the bubble screens, run reverses, line up as the wildcat, line up in the backfield and take regular carries, be a 3rd down RB. I don't think he lasts past the 3rd round. I would really like to see him run some actual routes though.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
Sam McGuffie, now there's a name from the past. Shouldn't he be used in comparisons to Wes Welker only?
That's so funny that his name popped up (of course it was 2 months ago). I was just researching him two days ago thinkig about him in the Percy Harvin-role and how he could be had late in the draft.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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Sproles lasted til the 4th and he played the position in college. Robinson is transitioning to a different position in the Pros. Armanti Edwards was a second round pick a few years back - had the same skillset as Robinson and was picked in the 2nd -he has not shown he is worthy of that pick. Speed is great but plenty of faster guys drop in the draft. His name will get him drafted higher than it should but their will be faster guys available later in the draft.

Sam McGuffie has pretty similar measurable and runs track in college - he projects the same as Denard Robinson in terms of position in the pros and he will be available until late day 3 of the draft and might go UDFA. Rainey fell to the 5th round in the past draft.
Just want to point out you've addressed pretty much everything but the way he actually plays. His acceleration and change of direction is amazing, and his track speed is deadly when he hits the open spaces. He has the same ability as Chris Johnson and Jamaal Charles to move through traffic in the middle of the field because he's simply so fast; defenders don't want to overrun him, so they dance right along with him and he can gain 5 yards through trash without getting hit just because they so respect his speed. Towards the end of the season Michigan used him primarily as a running back, so we've even seen what he looks like when he's taking handoffs and not merely taking off with the ball when a play breaks down. I know people don't like the idea of taking running backs in the first round, but I don't see him as a "running back" so much as an all-around offensive weapon with elite open-field running ability. He outclasses all the players you named by a long shot, except maybe Sproles. The thing with Sproles is he's built like a starting running back, but is scaled down. He's got the agility and speed, but you want to get him in open space to get the most out of him. He's fast, but he's not Denard fast. Denard will be the fastest player on the field most of the time, even in the NFL. I think when the combine rolls around you're going to be hearing a lot more people asking if he's going to be another Reggie Bush, or CJ, or Jamaal Charles. He played QB because he's an amazing overall athlete, not because he didn't have the ability to be a regular running back. Michigan just wanted to get the ball in his hands as much as possible, and lacking a clear-cut alternative, their offense turned into "give it to Denard."

I get excited about a few players every year, and Denard's one of my guys this year. You can all tell me I'm overrating him, but for an offense that needs a spark I feel like it would be pretty easy to justify a late-first/second round pick on him, and that's before he runs a ridiculous 40 time, which I think he will.

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Old 01-02-2013, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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Shoe Lace won't last past the third round. It seems like he is at top speed in only a few steps. I expect him to have one of the faster 40 times at the combine this year, somewhere in the 4.3s. He will be a RB no doubt. I see a little bit of Chris Johnson or Jamal Charles when I see him run. I'm not saying he is a 1,500 yard back but he has the potential to be a dynamic player in the league.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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For some guys taking a hand-off is more difficult/uncomfortable than catching the ball.

His skillset is more of a RB's than a WR's but who knows - he might excel as a pass-catcher.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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For some guys taking a hand-off is more difficult/uncomfortable than catching the ball.

His skillset is more of a RB's than a WR's but who knows - he might excel as a pass-catcher.
I've never heard that... or witnessed that. My question about Robinson is about as a receiver, is he tough enough to catch a ball with a safety or LB running full speed at him? Can he go across the middle. Taking a handoff only involves putting your arms parallel one over the other in front of your body at right angles at the elbows...that's nothing compared to concentrating on catching a 60 mph laser knowing you're getting ready to possibly get popped.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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He's not going to be a receiver, so it's irrelevant.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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RB is a terrible spot. He should play WR like Michael Robinson (who was a good WR at Penn State when he was put out there) should have and Woody Dantzler before them. The only QB->RB transition that ever made much sense was Bo Morgan's attempt.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:45 PM    (permalink
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RB is a terrible spot. He should play WR like Michael Robinson (who was a good WR at Penn State when he was put out there) should have and Woody Dantzler before them. The only QB->RB transition that ever made much sense was Bo Morgan's attempt.
Robinson is a Fullback right now bub.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:17 PM    (permalink
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Robinson is a Fullback right now bub.
Yeah, beat me to it. Robinson tried WR for the 49ers, became a RB, and then emerged as a darn good FB for the Seahawks.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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He's not going to be a receiver, so it's irrelevant.
It's only irrelevant if a team doesn't draft him to be a WR.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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I've never heard that... or witnessed that. My question about Robinson is about as a receiver, is he tough enough to catch a ball with a safety or LB running full speed at him? Can he go across the middle. Taking a handoff only involves putting your arms parallel one over the other in front of your body at right angles at the elbows...that's nothing compared to concentrating on catching a 60 mph laser knowing you're getting ready to possibly get popped.
It's the reason why reverses have flips sometimes.

And SP, why are you so sure he's not going to be a WR when he's listed as a WR on the SB roster and pretty much all QBs transition to WR out of college...
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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He is a RB. That's what he's been playing the last 4 games.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:09 AM    (permalink
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It's the reason why reverses have flips sometimes.

And SP, why are you so sure he's not going to be a WR when he's listed as a WR on the SB roster and pretty much all QBs transition to WR out of college...
If he was only a RB in college he'd still be a top prospect, but you don't see people wondering if Giovani Bernard is a wide receiver. He's a running back, let him run.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:14 AM    (permalink
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I've always had him pegged as a WR, but he's certainly looked the part of a RB in the last three games. He runs like a RB, instead of like a QB who happens to run.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:24 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SuperPacker View Post
If he was only a RB in college he'd still be a top prospect, but you don't see people wondering if Giovani Bernard is a wide receiver. He's a running back, let him run.
I listened to Todd McShay talk for 30 minutes about how Randall Cobb was going to be a sleeper Runningback 2 years ago. When Kiper asked him why he felt that way even though he had never played the position in his life McShay responded with "I don't know, I just think he can play the position" guys just trying to be different...McShay is a dumb ass, though.
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Originally Posted by 49erNation85 View Post
I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:41 AM    (permalink
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Denard is an interesting case. I'd guess most teams will have a late 2nd- early 3rd round grade on him but some team will grab him in the middle of the 2nd. As a prospect, I think he's clearly above Armanti Edwards (who was probably drafted a little early) in that he has similar production against a lot better competition.

As far as position, RB would probably be the easiest transition in that he's played the last few games there and is more similar to what he did as a QB, but I think some of you are crazy if you don't think some teams won't give him a shot at WR to see what he could do in some sort of hybrid role. Don't put too much stock in his listed position for the Senior Bowl, though. I'm sure they'll move him all around and try him in a few spots.

As a prospect, I think he's somewhere between Percy Harvin(ceiling), Dexter McCluster, and Randall Cobb right now, but the Senior Bowl is obviously going to be huge for him. If he looks really impressive and has a good showing at the combine it wouldn't be out of the question for him to sneak into the first round. If he has an average/below average Senior Bowl I still think he's a 3rd round pick though. He's clearly one of the most dynamic players in college football with the ball in his hands.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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I think he will be a WR at the next level and if he runs a sub 4.50, he'll go round 3. I think the only reason Michigan used him as a RB was because their starting RB was injured otherwise, he would have been used as a WR.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:02 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
I think he will be a WR at the next level and if he runs a sub 4.50, he'll go round 3. I think the only reason Michigan used him as a RB was because their starting RB was injured otherwise, he would have been used as a WR.
Robinson is closer to running a 4.3 then a 4.5, had recorded times as low as 4.32 in the past. Granted he put on some muscle this year I think he will still be in the high 4.3 low 4.4 range for sure, especially with his track past. He should have good technique coming off of the blocks and already has an advantage over someone when has never competed in a timed race.
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