New England Patriots Discussion - Page 394

descendency · 11-22-2012, 07:31 PM

Houston isn't playing nearly as good as they have. They are a beatable team. The problem for us is we need to win out and they need to lose another game (besides the NE game).

Maybe the Colts help us out @Colts.

Jvig43 · 11-22-2012, 11:49 PM

I am so happy right now.

Nalej · 11-23-2012, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

I am so happy right now.

You and me both!

cmarq83 · 11-23-2012, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

I am so happy right now.

Nothing has ever made me go from 6 to midnight faster than Sanchez's fumble. What an awesome game.

Matthew Jones · 11-23-2012, 11:32 AM

So, after a couple of games, how much would you all be willing to offer Aqib Talib and Patrick Chung? Should the Patriots attempt to re-sign either/both of them? What kind of commitment are they each worth?

AntoinCD · 11-23-2012, 11:34 AM

That 2nd quarter was quite possibly the most ridiculous quarter of football I have ever seen.

It's a bit **** that this isn't the kinda game we can't really evaluate because the Jets just killed themselves.

I'm pretty sure a win next week wraps up the division

cmarq83 · 11-23-2012, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

That 2nd quarter was quite possibly the most ridiculous quarter of football I have ever seen.

It's a bit **** that this isn't the kinda game we can't really evaluate because the Jets just killed themselves.

I'm pretty sure a win next week wraps up the division

We did some good things defensively, and both Dennard and McCourty made some nice plays out there. Gregory looked passable for the first time this season although a lot of that was good scheme/ right place right time. Even Arrington looked good yesterday for once.

Also, I think that offensive performance was the first legitimate A I'd give to McDaniels all year. His work on 3rd and short with Vereen and Ridley at the same time was fantastic. Also, working Vereen in with that wheel route on that long touchdown was great. I love the trio of Vereen, Bolden, and Ridley going forward as all 3 give you something different. If Vereen can stay healthy and continue to contribute we've added another weapon that is really useful to the way we run our offense. I've always thought we could use a true receiving threat at RB, and with his speed Vereen could make simple RB dumpoffs a more legitimate option in our offense. Brady wasn't pinpoint sharp yesterday, but I didn't find too many egregious play calls besides for trying too hard to get Lloyd involved again.

As for the Talib and Chung thing, Chung is in the doghouse right now and he seems to be heading towards a Eugene Wilson type exit. He's still a functional player, and IMO he's a lot better than Gregory, but his play is worse towards the end of his contract than the beginning. I think we'll probably part ways and keep McCourty, Gregory, and Wilson. It's a shame because after year 2 I thought he was well on his way to being a top 10 safety.

We definitely need a bigger sample size with Talib, but I must say he's looked average so far, but average is still an enormous improvement from what we were getting.

descendency · 11-23-2012, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones

So, after a couple of games, how much would you all be willing to offer Aqib Talib and Patrick Chung? Should the Patriots attempt to re-sign either/both of them? What kind of commitment are they each worth?

After what we've seen with Talib, we have to have him back. Our DB evaluation has been terrible until trading for him.

I'd let both Chung and Vollmer walk unless they take very favorable deals.

descendency · 11-23-2012, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmarq83

As for the Talib and Chung thing, Chung is in the doghouse right now and he seems to be heading towards a Eugene Wilson type exit. He's still a functional player, and IMO he's a lot better than Gregory, but his play is worse towards the end of his contract than the beginning. I think we'll probably part ways and keep McCourty, Gregory, and Wilson. It's a shame because after year 2 I thought he was well on his way to being a top 10 safety.

There were non Patriots fans who thought Chung was headed to be a top 3 safety in the NFL after his second season. Then he just took a nose dive.

Jvig43 · 11-24-2012, 01:38 AM

To chime in, I don't think we should take a ton away from that game or use it as a measuring stick for how good we are. Sure we did alot of things right but the Jets just embarrassed themselves from start to finish.

I am starting to become concerned about the rush defense after the last few weeks however. Houston, Batli can both run the ball well and we still have the 9ers to play.

AntoinCD · 11-24-2012, 09:49 AM

I think the 10 days is a good thing to get most guys healthy again to play the Dolphins.

The Texans also took a big hit losing Brooks Reed for a month. Barwin is a very good player but the extra pressure that Reed added would have been tough and the Houston secondary has looked average recently.

descendency · 11-24-2012, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

I think the 10 days is a good thing to get most guys healthy again to play the Dolphins.

The Texans also took a big hit losing Brooks Reed for a month. Barwin is a very good player but the extra pressure that Reed added would have been tough and the Houston secondary has looked average recently.

Brooks Reed is a good player, but they have a ton of guys that can rush the passer. Whitney Mercilus is just rotting on their bench. They're a good team that has a lot of depth. I think they're just not as good as they were a few weeks ago.

descendency · 11-24-2012, 10:29 PM

Just curious, but does the Patriots pursuit of Red Bryant and the fact the Patriots only gave a 1 year extension to Kyle Love show a desire to upgrade at DT?

Matthew Jones · 11-24-2012, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency

Just curious, but does the Patriots pursuit of Red Bryant and the fact the Patriots only gave a 1 year extension to Kyle Love show a desire to upgrade at DT?

It doesn't make much sense to view a contract extension as an indicator that a team wants to make an upgrade. New England's pursuit of Red Bryant is debatable, considering that he plays defensive end in Seattle. Maybe the Patriots wanted Bryant to play defensive tackle, but it's also a possibility that they wanted him for the two-gap left end spot in the hybrid defense they ran last year; Shaun Ellis and Brandon Deaderick didn't get the job done in that regard. Additionally, Bryant looks like he could play some five-technique, so the Patriots would have had some more versatility in that regard.

AntoinCD · 11-25-2012, 01:38 PM

I agree with Matthew here. I don't know if the Bryant/Fanene thing was an indictment on Love's worth but more of a Deaderick thing. Love is great on the nose and that is it. It is testament to how improved Wilfork is in the passing game that both are in there, however I think ideally they would rather have more of an interior rush threat next to either Wilfork or Love. Wilfork at the 3 isn't ideal and having a guy who could take that role would work well in being able to rotate Wilfork and Love over the center IMO

cmarq83 · 11-25-2012, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

I agree with Matthew here. I don't know if the Bryant/Fanene thing was an indictment on Love's worth but more of a Deaderick thing. Love is great on the nose and that is it. It is testament to how improved Wilfork is in the passing game that both are in there, however I think ideally they would rather have more of an interior rush threat next to either Wilfork or Love. Wilfork at the 3 isn't ideal and having a guy who could take that role would work well in being able to rotate Wilfork and Love over the center IMO

I'm not sure that's how BB feels although it seems completely logical to us. If there is a way for us to get bigger and slower on defense I think he'll take it. However, I'm really disappointed with the contributions of Love this year. I thought he'd build off a sneakily good previous season, but he's been worse IMO.

Matthew Jones · 11-25-2012, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmarq83

I'm not sure that's how BB feels although it seems completely logical to us. If there is a way for us to get bigger and slower on defense I think he'll take it. However, I'm really disappointed with the contributions of Love this year. I thought he'd build off a sneakily good previous season, but he's been worse IMO.

This is what makes me terrified of Jesse Williams in April. I could see Belichick looking at him because of his size/pedigree, but another run-oriented player would be kind of a disappointment.

AntoinCD · 11-25-2012, 02:06 PM

Yeah I agree with both you guys. I know from looking at BB's form he doesn't fit the mold, however I would be ecstatic if we drafted a guy like Sheldon Richardson in the draft.

I also read somewhere about how the Pats LBs are hurting them and that with 2 of them it would be great but having 3 guys who are huge but can't run are a liability. My question is, if we could get a true WILL who can fly around, who is the odd man out? Mayo? Spikes?

cmarq83 · 11-25-2012, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

Yeah I agree with both you guys. I know from looking at BB's form he doesn't fit the mold, however I would be ecstatic if we drafted a guy like Sheldon Richardson in the draft.

I also read somewhere about how the Pats LBs are hurting them and that with 2 of them it would be great but having 3 guys who are huge but can't run are a liability. My question is, if we could get a true WILL who can fly around, who is the odd man out? Mayo? Spikes?

I would think Hightower would at the moment, but obviously he needs more time to develop. I would love to get Jelani Jenkins if he declares. Still I think you can rotate 4 linebackers and get them all about 40-50 snaps a game. I think there is a marginal solution in house if BB lets Jerod Mayo slim down a bit, he looks a lot heavier than when he originally came here. If we came away with Richardson and Jenkins I think they'd be a huge help even if they only played 40% of the time.

cmarq83 · 11-25-2012, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones

This is what makes me terrified of Jesse Williams in April. I could see Belichick looking at him because of his size/pedigree, but another run-oriented player would be kind of a disappointment.

I think BB is obsessed with building depth behind Wilfork the same way he is behind Gronkowski. It's ultimately a losing battle because nobody can replicate what they give you, but I think he desperately wants it.

descendency · 11-25-2012, 11:05 PM

I really don't love Jon Bostic as much as some, but if he's available later (as most ILBs - as are most that don't rush the passer particularly well usually are), he could be an excellent coverage backer in NE. So could Alec Ogletree, but he definitely doesn't fit the Belichick mold.

The problem with drafting a guy like that is we have bigger needs and only 3 premiere picks.

AntoinCD · 11-26-2012, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmarq83

I would think Hightower would at the moment, but obviously he needs more time to develop. I would love to get Jelani Jenkins if he declares. Still I think you can rotate 4 linebackers and get them all about 40-50 snaps a game. I think there is a marginal solution in house if BB lets Jerod Mayo slim down a bit, he looks a lot heavier than when he originally came here. If we came away with Richardson and Jenkins I think they'd be a huge help even if they only played 40% of the time.

Yeah definitely agree about Mayo. When he was initially drafted most had him pegged to go to Detroit to be the MLB in their then Tampa 2 scheme because he had the athleticism to be able to drop into the deep middle. However when he came here he was changed to become a bigger guy inside the 34 and now he's out at WILL. I wouldn't mind him losing 10lbs and playing the same role because he has the smarts and athleticism to be very good at it

AntoinCD · 11-26-2012, 06:04 AM

I was looking through some numbers well on my way to having a "The Pats aren't getting any credit" rant, which I will defer until another time, when I seen that they have recovered 18 fumbles this year. That's over 1.5 per game. The Pats have 32 takeaways, at nearly 3 per game. For as many yards as the defense gives up I gotta think this is what Belichick wants. He is basically saying that the Pats offense can outscore the other offense because the defense/special teams will give the Pats 2 or 3 extra series per game

Blackluck · 11-26-2012, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

I was looking through some numbers well on my way to having a "The Pats aren't getting any credit" rant, which I will defer until another time, when I seen that they have recovered 18 fumbles this year. That's over 1.5 per game. The Pats have 32 takeaways, at nearly 3 per game. For as many yards as the defense gives up I gotta think this is what Belichick wants. He is basically saying that the Pats offense can outscore the other offense because the defense/special teams will give the Pats 2 or 3 extra series per game

NE has twice as many turnovers as the 2nd rated team. That's phenomenal. So you might be on to something there Antoine, but it's still a painful defense to watch as opposing teams march up and down the field (I DVR the games, and although I hate to admit it sometimes I just fast forward until the other team is in the red zone.)

Another impressive aspect of the team is how we're dealing with key injuries. Other teams would struggle with the key players we've had out, yet we continue to win. If the team can get healthy the playoffs might turn out better than I thought. And on that note - they can't catch a break. How does Baltimore beat SD yesterday? 4th and 29, really? Really San Diego?

AntoinCD · 11-26-2012, 07:42 AM

Ha! Yeah that was ridiculous. I still think Baltimore will slip up at least once the rest of the way. They still need to play the Steelers, Broncos and Giants.

I'm not sure if anyone knows, but what way does the tiebreaker fall if Denver beats Baltimore and Denver and NE win out?

They would all end 13-3

Baltimore hold the tiebreaker over NE
Denver hold the tiebreaker over Baltimore
NE hold the tiebreaker over Denver