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Old 11-28-2012, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
I'm comparing them as football players not height.

Simon has that freakish attitude and motor similar to Jared Allen. Quite frankly they're playing styles are similar. Not concerned about their height.
Allen has a much better first step and is a much better edge rusher. He uses his long arms to shed well and rips hard.

I don't see much of a comparison other than the typical race/position everyone jumps on.

Not quite the power rusher as Brandon Graham or Woodley but definitely in that mold of player.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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Not sure about that, I wonder how is condition on his right arm would limit him inside. To me, Clayborn just isn't a typical RDE. He's basically a RDE only that plays like a base LDE. A guy like your SLB/RDE Dion Jordan would be a huge boost for the defense if he shows he can hit that edge and run the arc that Clayborn can't and be the pass rushing RDE and perhaps Clayborn plays 1st and 2nd downs at RDE and moves to DT or the bench on 3rd down.
To me I think Clayborn is more of a 3-4 RE. Powerful dlineman that can push the pocket and be a great run defense but not that protypical pass rusher.
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:46 AM    (permalink
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You guys are talking about a guy who had 7.5 sacks in his rookie season on a badly coached defense and team. When we were down by 10 to 14 points after the first quarter so its not like pass rush opps were there for the taking.
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:16 AM    (permalink
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You guys are talking about a guy who had 7.5 sacks in his rookie season on a badly coached defense and team. When we were down by 10 to 14 points after the first quarter so its not like pass rush opps were there for the taking.
Other than his pure strength and bull rush it seems Clayborn , from what I've seen is tremendous in the run defense but not a pure pass rusher. He doesn't use his hands very well in getting around the tackle. Relies too much on his bull rush.

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Old 11-29-2012, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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Allen has a much better first step and is a much better edge rusher. He uses his long arms to shed well and rips hard.

I don't see much of a comparison other than the typical race/position everyone jumps on.

Not quite the power rusher as Brandon Graham or Woodley but definitely in that mold of player.
I was thinking of Brandon Graham as well... but not quite as explosive.
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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Other than his pure strength and bull rush it seems Clayborn , from what I've seen is tremendous in the run defense but not a pure pass rusher. He doesn't use his hands very well in getting around the tackle. Relies too much on his bull rush.
And he has very little first step explosion and hasn't shown the ability to dip his shoulder and run the arc.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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And he has very little first step explosion and hasn't shown the ability to dip his shoulder and run the arc.
I honestly think the bucs have a good brass to make a successful switch to the 3-4. Need outside pass rushers and a nt.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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And he has very little first step explosion and hasn't shown the ability to dip his shoulder and run the arc.
You can't say that for sure because, as I have pointed out, Sheridan doesn't let the defensive line actually rush the quarterback very often.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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I honestly think the bucs have a good brass to make a successful switch to the 3-4. Need outside pass rushers and a nt.

No way we run a 3-4. One reason Mark got Greg was becuase he was a 4-3 guy.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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I would like to see Bowers drop about 15 pounds. Listed at 277 the guy looks like he's 290. I would want him at 270. 1. For Speed 2. Less weight helps out his lower body which hes already had two big time injures.
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Old 11-29-2012, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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I would like to see Bowers drop about 15 pounds. Listed at 277 the guy looks like he's 290. I would want him at 270. 1. For Speed 2. Less weight helps out his lower body which hes already had two big time injures.
Thats funny, buddy of mine brought up the fact that Bowers looks a lot heavier at the Atlanta game . I don't know if the weight gain is from the injury and not being able to work out or if he just bulked up for some reason.
But I agree, he needs to drop some weight.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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No way we run a 3-4. One reason Mark got Greg was becuase he was a 4-3 guy.
Can you confirm at that? Because why were we looking at San Fran's DBs coach at first for Def. Coordinator that came from a 3-4 background? Or after the 3-13 season of Morris in 2009, why were they looking at Bill Cowher?
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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I would like to see Bowers drop about 15 pounds. Listed at 277 the guy looks like he's 290. I would want him at 270. 1. For Speed 2. Less weight helps out his lower body which hes already had two big time injures.
This. I noticed at against Oakland that he looked very heavy and a bit out of shape. It could be the down time during rehab but I'm guessing he didn't watch his diet.

I think a full off-season to shed 15-20 lbs could help him. He should ask Josh Freeman for advice.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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Can you confirm at that? Because why were we looking at San Fran's DBs coach at first for Def. Coordinator that came from a 3-4 background? Or after the 3-13 season of Morris in 2009, why were they looking at Bill Cowher?


Defensive backfield philosophy is seperate from the front scheme philosophy. You can run a Tampa-2 in a 4-3 and a 3-4. In fact, their secondary coach has spent more of his career in 4-3 fronts than 3-4.... that's relatively new for him. Though, his core philosophy of coverage remains close to same. Also, it was fans.... and some local media throwing darts.... that were looking at Bill Cowher. You posting that as a serious thought made me laugh. Out loud.


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Old 11-30-2012, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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Defensive backfield philosophy is seperate from the front scheme philosophy. You can run a Tampa-2 in a 4-3 and a 3-4. In fact, their secondary coach has spent more of his career in 4-3 fronts than 3-4.... that's relatively new for him. Though, his core philosophy of coverage remains close to same. Also, it was fans.... and some local media throwing darts.... that were looking at Bill Cowher. You posting that as a serious thought made me laugh. Out loud.


Actually the bucs do not run a Tampa 2 really so you posting that made me LOL.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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Actually the bucs do not run a Tampa 2 really so you posting that made me LOL.
They do on occasion but not to the extent we did back in the Monte Kiffen era, we blitz the safety alot. Also the reason we don't run the Tampa 2 that much maybe a direct effect because we can not bring pressure consistently. You will get murdered in that defense if you allow QB's to sit back and pick you apart all day, we have been getting murdered anyway without the consistent pressure hence the dead last in passing defense and I think opposing QB's have a completion rate in the high 60's against us. This we kill us if we even think about making the playoff going against guys like Aaron Rodgers, Matt Ryan, etc. So a healthy Bowers and Clayborn will help but I say keep adding to that Defensive line in the draft. Don't reach by any means trade back and get more draft picks.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Can you confirm at that? Because why were we looking at San Fran's DBs coach at first for Def. Coordinator that came from a 3-4 background? Or after the 3-13 season of Morris in 2009, why were they looking at Bill Cowher?
Here you go buddy


Speaking today on The Dan Sileo Show on WDAE-AM 620, Dominik shared lots of thoughts on the Schiano hire, including calling himself a “defensive fundamentalist” and explaining that even in the high-flying NFL he believes defense is still king.

“I’m a “defensive fundamentalist” always have been and it’s because I’ve been around the likes of Marty Schottenheimer, Monte Kiffin and Tony Dungy. And that’s all just made sense to me,” Dominik said. “That’s how you get there.That’s how the Baltimore Ravens, you know, get to be a consistent football team. That’s how the Giants are in the Super Bowl again. I just see that that’s the way it works.”

For those unaware, Schiano is a defensive guy. In fact, Dominik called Schiano “a 4-3 fundamentalist” who has a lot of Dick LeBeau and Monte Kiffin in him.


From Joebucsfan.com here's the link http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=61223
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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Bowers does look big... but I'm not sure that he's fat. Schiano has said in interviews out how impressed he was at the shape Bowers was in. H emay have bulked up and considering the many injuries he's had the past two years, all he's really been able to do is workout and rehab. I don't know they necessarily CAN lose much weight.

That being said, he would benefit health-wise from dropping some lbs., but I don't know that it will help his game much. His game is built so much more on power and strength over hitting the edge and turning the corner. Even at Clemson he was never really a speed guy, more of a power/leverage rusher, a guy that was quick enough to get a shoulder inside or outside and power his way back to the QB, but not a guy that could completely beat an OT in space with his get off and then turn and find the QB.

I also know from experience that as a speed rusher, trying to be first off the ball and trying to explode past the OT, that it isn't any better on your legs than a power rush where a player is playing for leverage or positioning.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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I honestly think the bucs have a good brass to make a successful switch to the 3-4. Need outside pass rushers and a nt.
Is that all? Those are easy to find. The 5-tech DE's are far easier to find than the 330 lb earth moving NT's and athletic speed rushing LBs that are still strong enough to hold up against OL in the run game. Considering the small framed Lavonte David, we would either have to get rid of him or ask him to unsuccessfully bulk-up (which would rob him of his greatest asset-speed)

If we went 3-4, McCoy would probably be the LDE, Clayborn the RDE, Bowers would back them both up, Bennett would be switched to OLB (which might not be a good idea), we would have to find a manster at NT, which is incredibly hard to do (Ngata's and Wilfork's don't grow on trees), Foster and David would be forced to bulk up and play the ILBs. Then we'd need to find at least two OLBs that can put heat on QBs...

That would be a horrible idea. We are good at DL, not great, even without a hulking NT. A speed rusher off the edge would be nice. We are fine at LB, nothing is needed there.

It would be expensive and a poor use of our resources to convert to the 3-4. Why miscast a disruptive UT and put him at 5-tech? Why spend on those draft choices on 4-3 DEs and put them at 3-4 DE? Why draft a tiny productive 4-3 ILB and put him at 3-4 ILB where he will have to fight throught OGs every play?
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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All this talk of 3-4. The only thing we need on D is CB's. We have a undrafted rookie, a 3rd round bust and Biggers playing huge mins for us right now. And what it should look like is Lewis being cut a long time ago, biggers as our 4th CB and Johnson ( nice story ) as our 5th DB and SP gunner.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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Bowers does look big... but I'm not sure that he's fat. Schiano has said in interviews out how impressed he was at the shape Bowers was in. H emay have bulked up and considering the many injuries he's had the past two years, all he's really been able to do is workout and rehab. I don't know they necessarily CAN lose much weight.

That being said, he would benefit health-wise from dropping some lbs., but I don't know that it will help his game much. His game is built so much more on power and strength over hitting the edge and turning the corner. Even at Clemson he was never really a speed guy, more of a power/leverage rusher, a guy that was quick enough to get a shoulder inside or outside and power his way back to the QB, but not a guy that could completely beat an OT in space with his get off and then turn and find the QB.

I also know from experience that as a speed rusher, trying to be first off the ball and trying to explode past the OT, that it isn't any better on your legs than a power rush where a player is playing for leverage or positioning.
The fact that Bowers is even able to play at the moment is mind-blowing to me. The type of injury he sustained is just nasty.
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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It just seems like bowers packed on some weight in the middle and bigger than his 275-280 lb playing weight. Probably think in the offseason he can get a little slimmer to regain that speed.
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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Pat Yasinskas of ESPN is reporting that Mike Sullivan is interested in the open head coach position at Boston College and vice versa.

I really hope the Bucs can convince him to stay.
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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Pat Yasinskas of ESPN is reporting that Mike Sullivan is interested in the open head coach position at Boston College and vice versa.

I really hope the Bucs can convince him to stay.
Wow. I do not want to see Freeman have to learn a new offense again.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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We need new CB's so badly
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