New England Patriots Discussion - Page 397

cmarq83 · 12-03-2012, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

Lloyd just isn't getting us anything down field like alot of people thought he would.

Also, the fact that he jumps before catching every pass regardless of whether he needs to or not pisses the hell out of me. It kills any run after the catch ability. A legitimate deep threat at WR is still a need going forward.

AntoinCD · 12-03-2012, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

I'm still unsure that we matchup with the big guns in this league (this season at least) so i wouldnt be surprised to lose both games. I think either way we'll learn alot about what we have going forward, but our offense got shut down yesterday in the passing game. Thank God we have capable running backs now because without Gronk I think theres a good chance that we see more of that against the better teams. Lloyd just isn't getting us anything down field like alot of people thought he would.

With Gronk out I think we will struggle to consistently move the ball in the air at will, that said, I still think combined with the run game we can be very productive. The Houston game will be a good barometer because they are very balanced on offense and defense. Even with CK, I don't love the 49ers passing game. Vernon Davis (who is better than Gronk) has 15 yards in the last 2 games, Crabtree isn't a game breaking threat and they don't use Moss. I think if we close down their run game we can force Kaepernick into mistakes

cmarq83 · 12-03-2012, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

With Gronk out I think we will struggle to consistently move the ball in the air at will, that said, I still think combined with the run game we can be very productive. The Houston game will be a good barometer because they are very balanced on offense and defense. Even with CK, I don't love the 49ers passing game. Vernon Davis (who is better than Gronk) has 15 yards in the last 2 games, Crabtree isn't a game breaking threat and they don't use Moss. I think if we close down their run game we can force Kaepernick into mistakes

Yeah, but I don't think there is a chance in hell that we play mistake free football against the 49ers. We're likely going to be trying to force the ball in to Hernandez against Willis and Bowman which is not a winning strategy. I think McDaniels will do his balls to the wall passing attack like he has so far against good defenses like Seattle and Miami, and that doesn't bode well for us.

Plus on defense we're making too many mental errors out there. With the best player in the Universe Vernon Davis and the remnants of Randy Moss I think they'll connect for a few big ones against us.

Jvig43 · 12-03-2012, 11:00 AM

Well luckily for us they only have either CK (who they could trade for a first rounder) or top ten elite Alex Smith throwing the ball to Davis, other wise he'd be right on Gronks level and destroy us.

In all seriousness I do think Gore could have a huuuuge day running the ball against us.

Jvig43 · 12-04-2012, 10:37 AM

Apparently we currently hold the second seed in the AFC right now?

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-e...wo-seed-in-afc

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/s...ge=tiebreakers

I feel like that isn't correct however. If it is, then maybe I want the Ravens to beat the Broncos coming up since they have the easier schedule going forward and the Ravens still have to play NYG who will be in must win mode.

EDIT: NFL.com has it the same as well because we have the better conference record. Well thats neat. Time to see if this team has it in them to clinch up that spot.

AntoinCD · 12-04-2012, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

Apparently we currently hold the second seed in the AFC right now?

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-e...wo-seed-in-afc

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/s...ge=tiebreakers

I feel like that isn't correct however. If it is, then maybe I want the Ravens to beat the Broncos coming up since they have the easier schedule going forward and the Ravens still have to play NYG who will be in must win mode.

Yeah, 3 way tiebreaker goes to conference record and the Pats only have 1 loss - to Baltimore.

If we have to lose a game I would really prefer it to be against SF because it won't affect that. It's strange, we could win out and still be 3rd seed, or we could lose games and still wind up with the 2

Jvig43 · 12-04-2012, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

Yeah, 3 way tiebreaker goes to conference record and the Pats only have 1 loss - to Baltimore.

If we have to lose a game I would really prefer it to be against SF because it won't affect that. It's strange, we could win out and still be 3rd seed, or we could lose games and still wind up with the 2

I'm confused? If we win out we'd get the second seed.

AntoinCD · 12-04-2012, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

I'm confused? If we win out we'd get the second seed.

Yeah, forget that I am actually being stupid

I remember thinking of a strange scenario earlier where something could happen but for the life of me I can't remember it now

Jvig43 · 12-04-2012, 10:51 AM

Haha its cool was just curious. It would be awesome if Batlimore beat Denver and then lost to the Giants. That would really help us going forward so long as we dont lose both the next few games. If we beat Houston and win out (not going to happen and I think we lose to Houston this week actually) and Houston drops another game we'd get the first seed correct?

descendency · 12-04-2012, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

I'm confused? If we win out we'd get the second seed.

If the Patriots and Ravens win out, the Ravens will pass the Patriots based on tie breakers (and the Broncos will have lost to the Ravens, so they won't be tied with NE).

descendency · 12-04-2012, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

Haha its cool was just curious. It would be awesome if Batlimore beat Denver and then lost to the Giants. That would really help us going forward so long as we dont lose both the next few games. If we beat Houston and win out (not going to happen and I think we lose to Houston this week actually) and Houston drops another game we'd get the first seed correct?

Yep. The Texans have the Colts twice and the Vikings left. We could be the #1 seed if we win out and the Texans lose to the Colts or Vikings as well.

However, if the Ravens and Patriots both win out and the Texans somehow lose 3+ games out of the next 4, the Ravens would be the #1 seed. (because they will beat Denver, who won't be able to tie either with a loss).

So winning out just about guarantees us a bye week.

descendency · 12-04-2012, 02:43 PM

Edelman left the game on crutches and supposedly has a broken foot...

The team compensates by signing Donte Stallworth. If NE wants to beat the Texans, Brandon Lloyd had better show up.

Vaylor · 12-04-2012, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency

Edelman left the game on crutches and supposedly has a broken foot...

The team compensates by signing Donte Stallworth. If NE wants to beat the Texans, Brandon Lloyd had better show up.

Ugh Edelman was put on IR.

cmarq83 · 12-04-2012, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaylor

Ugh Edelman was put on IR.

That could be it for him in a NE uniform. This is going to hurt us on punt returns, but he never really could keep it consistently going as a receiver. I'm a little bit intrigued to have Stallworth back though. We need one guy who can run a 9 route in the worst way.

Vaylor · 12-04-2012, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmarq83

That could be it for him in a NE uniform. This is going to hurt us on punt returns, but he never really could keep it consistently going as a receiver. I'm a little bit intrigued to have Stallworth back though. We need one guy who can run a 9 route in the worst way.

I would be shocked if they let him go. He is a young emerging WR who would be available for cheap.

Jvig43 · 12-04-2012, 06:59 PM

Yeah I don't see us letting Edelmen go. I dont see a ton of other teams lining up to take him, and I think we can get a pretty decent team friendly deal signed with him.

Jvig43 · 12-04-2012, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency

Yep. The Texans have the Colts twice and the Vikings left. We could be the #1 seed if we win out and the Texans lose to the Colts or Vikings as well.

However, if the Ravens and Patriots both win out and the Texans somehow lose 3+ games out of the next 4, the Ravens would be the #1 seed. (because they will beat Denver, who won't be able to tie either with a loss).

So winning out just about guarantees us a bye week.

Not true, if we win out were automatically ahead of the Ravens since we own the better AFC record despite them beating us. Its why we have the second seed despite having the same record they have and them holding the tie breaker.

descendency · 12-04-2012, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

Not true, if we win out were automatically ahead of the Ravens since we own the better AFC record despite them beating us. Its why we have the second seed despite having the same record they have and them holding the tie breaker.

We have the second seed because we are in a 3 way tie. If we are in a 2 way tie with the Ravens, we lose.

cmarq83 · 12-04-2012, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

Yeah I don't see us letting Edelmen go. I dont see a ton of other teams lining up to take him, and I think we can get a pretty decent team friendly deal signed with him.

I think he has a good enough developmental skill set that will make someone pay him more than we're going to be willing to. He still has potential as a slot receiver, can be a 3rd down back, could be a wildcat QB, is a great punt returner, and if somebody really wanted he could probably be a functional NFL safety. There are too many options out there that would probably lead to him getting more snaps than he does here. I think we've actually messed up his development a little bit. There are really good physical tools to be utilized if somebody had him focus on doing one thing well.

Matthew Jones · 12-05-2012, 08:33 AM

My desired free agent re-signings in bold:

RB Danny Woodhead
WR Julian Edelman
WR Donte' Stallworth
WR Wes Welker
TE Jake Ballard (ERFA)
TE Michael Hoomanawanui (RFA)
TE Visanthe Shiancoe
OT Sebastian Vollmer
OG Jamey Richard
OG Donald Thomas
DL Ron Brace
DL Trevor Scott
LB Bobby Carpenter
LB Dane Fletcher (RFA)
LB Niko Koutouvides
LB Jeff Tarpinian (ERFA)
LB Tracy White
DB Will Allen
DB Kyle Arrington
DB Josh Barrett
DB Patrick Chung
DB Marquice Cole
DB Aqib Talib

cmarq83 · 12-05-2012, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones

My desired free agent re-signings in bold:

RB Danny Woodhead
WR Julian Edelman
WR Donte' Stallworth
WR Wes Welker
TE Jake Ballard (ERFA)
TE Michael Hoomanawanui (RFA)
TE Visanthe Shiancoe
OT Sebastian Vollmer
OG Jamey Richard
OG Donald Thomas
DL Ron Brace
DL Trevor Scott
LB Bobby Carpenter
LB Dane Fletcher (RFA)
LB Niko Koutouvides
LB Jeff Tarpinian (ERFA)
LB Tracy White
DB Will Allen
DB Kyle Arrington
DB Josh Barrett
DB Patrick Chung
DB Marquice Cole
DB Aqib Talib

Good list, I'd prefer to keep Talib even though his play has been questionable so far. We really can't try and redo our entire CB depth chart behind Dennard. I'd also show the door to Hoomanawanui. I prefer Fells and Ballard to him by a significant margin, and I feel like we can find somebody who can do the same things he does but better pretty cheaply, Delanie Walker anyone?

Also obviously Welker and Vollmer have price limits in terms of what they should be paid. We have proven we can survive without them, so I wouldn't break the bank, and may even consider a higher priced DFA over them.

AntoinCD · 12-05-2012, 09:06 AM

I'd like to resign Talib if he doesn't cost too much. While his play hasn't exactly been shutdown-esque, he has allowed McCourty have a permanent move to safety and is an upgrade over any other CB on the roster

descendency · 12-05-2012, 08:44 PM

Talib is coming off his worst game so far in NE. I think the Patriots will strongly consider pursuing him, though. He's easily their best DB.

I am not sure how i feel about letting Arrington walk. He's a good nickel DB. He's definitely not a guy you want on the boundary or the field side, but in the slot, he's not so bad.

I'm ok with letting Welker walk. He has the offer from the Patriots and he can come back on that offer, but if he wants - then we should let him go. This team needs to get younger at WR. Brady needs to stop relying on the crutch that is his favorite targets (Brown, Branch, Welker, etc) and start developing chemistry with guys that are brought in or start working with them more.

Jvig43 · 12-05-2012, 08:52 PM

We need to get younger at WR big time. In fact we need an actual number one for that matter.

AntoinCD · 12-06-2012, 08:11 AM

The Pats still are using their "#1" as a clearout, decoy kinda guy at the minute. It's hard to argue that it's not successful, however I too would like a guy who can line up outside and be a real threat. Pipe dream for the draft is Keenan Allen but we should have a legitimate shot at Hunter or Woods, although it would be tough to pass on Austin as an inside guy as well