Who is the current OROTY?

[G Mobile]

You put up a bunch of numbers like its an apples to apples comparison. They are just simply playing in much different offenses and you can't just lump the numbers directly against one another.

I don't buy that either player has a distinct advantage or disadvantage with the players around them. Probably a wash overall to me.

Its a super close race, but I favor Luck because he carries a larger individual burden in my eyes.

That infographic on the last page or so is all kinds funky stats picked out haha. "Most yard gained on zone reads." Aren't there only like 2 or 3 teams that might run zone read plays?

[Caulibflower]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

What I was trying to get out of this thread is some logical views of the OROTY race.

No, you're not. You want people to say, "Ah yes, Mr. Sagan, you are totally right about everything. Your PhD program is lucky to have you, because you're so intelligent and insightful."

All i've gotten are made up stories and people saying stats don't mean anything(unless of course they HELP someone's argument).

The stats you cite don't help yours, which is hardly even an argument. It's the kind of "argument" you'll find with picketers on street corners.

RG3 is playing with a MASH unit (like 11 injuries and 2 suspensions) who had 18M less than anyone else to spend in FA (which makes it more impressive imo)

Oh, boo hoo.

Comp% = RG3
TD:Int= RG3
Passer rating = RG3
YPA = RG3
Rushing yards = RG3
Rushing TD's = RG3
TD passes over 25 yds = RG3

Clutch performances = Tie


Passing yards, attempts, completions and incompletions = Luck
Winning % = Luck (though look at who they've played while Washington had to play the NFCE, NFCS, and AFCN.. 6-6 is more impressive in that context imo)

Both players are fantastic but I don't see how anyone can say Luck is superior to RG3? So many excuses are made as to why RG3 is performing when it's really because he's simply a great player.

I'm not going to respond to your stats. Break down their play. You can't get beyond RGIII being a better athlete. You're unable to take the point that RGIII's success is primarily because of the way defenses have to account for his athleticism, while Luck's success is primarily because of how adept he already is at executing a traditional NFL offense. That's neither a knock on Griffin's intelligence nor Luck's athleticism.

I don't understand why you insist on continually coming back exclusively to stats found on their player profiles. If you want to use stats, how can you just ignore what (I think) Cudders posted earlier about how many times Andrew Luck converted 3rd and medium-long plays? If you watch football games, you know how critical that is. Or conversely, the idea that several other posters have supported, that RGIII throws a lot of short throws and a lot of bombs - resulting in a higher passer rating without the throws themselves actually being harder than the passes other quarterbacks attempt. YES! - that is because of his running ability, and that does factor into the race, but it doesn't make him the winner. When you look at their teams side-by-side and Luck is 8-4 with the team which picked no. 1 overall last year, and he doesn't have either a stud running back or a reliable defense, you are talking about what Peyton Manning was doing in Indianapolis for years.

This is the best ROY race in a long time.

[Canadian_draft_fan]

I think both RGIII and Luck are neck and neck (still) for the award. Luck may be ahead right now in football acumen but to say the Skins run the pistol and simplify the offense to cover up Griffin's flaws is just incorrect, IMO. The Skins do it to take advantage of Griffin's skills. He can read defenses and make audibles just fine, maybe not quite Luck's level but the difference isn't as vast as some are making it out to be.

And to throw anther log into the fire:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ffensive-line/

Basically the author is saying that despite one of the poorest Olines in the league Griffin is producing offense for the Skins at an exceptional rate, better ratio than any QB in the league by a wide margin. This isn't the be all and end all argument but it certainly adds perspective.

In my view those who say one or the other is way ahead, are full of it.

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by Caulibflower

No, you're not. You want people to say, "Ah yes, Mr. Sagan, you are totally right about everything. Your PhD program is lucky to have you, because you're so intelligent and insightful."



The stats you cite don't help yours, which is hardly even an argument. It's the kind of "argument" you'll find with picketers on street corners.



Oh, boo hoo.



I'm not going to respond to your stats. Break down their play. You can't get beyond RGIII being a better athlete. You're unable to take the point that RGIII's success is primarily because of the way defenses have to account for his athleticism, while Luck's success is primarily because of how adept he already is at executing a traditional NFL offense. That's neither a knock on Griffin's intelligence nor Luck's athleticism.


Break down their play? I have... have you? RG3 is more efficient with his passing attempts, and uses his legs to move the chains as well. He's very balanced... Luck turns the ball over quite a bit but is very very good but I don't see a glaring difference between what he does from a passing perspective that RG3 doesn't. Can you provide some type of example or video or something that shows what you are talking about?

And what I don't get is why you're using RG3's athleticism against him? You're so caught up on "traditional NFL offense" that you can't respect the fact that RG3 is redefining the game (Much like Walsh did with the WCO).

I don't understand why you insist on continually coming back exclusively to stats found on their player profiles. If you want to use stats, how can you just ignore what (I think) Cudders posted earlier about how many times Andrew Luck converted 3rd and medium-long plays? If you watch football games, you know how critical that is. Or conversely, the idea that several other posters have supported, that RGIII throws a lot of short throws and a lot of bombs - resulting in a higher passer rating without the throws themselves actually being harder than the passes other quarterbacks attempt.

This is also something I have been trying to tell you guys. It's like you watched the first three games of the season and all of a sudden pegged RG3 as a bubble screen passer. They brought him along slowly but since have opened up the play book and they might use a screen once or twice a game. All the rest of his passes are either bombs or intermediate throws. He's also been money on 4th down and "must have" conversions. He'd be MUCH better if not for all the drops (another thing you guys are missing) I'd probably say half of the drops he's had have been for first downs on 3rd down. So while you're telling me to watch them play, I urge you to do the same.

YES! - that is because of his running ability, and that does factor into the race, but it doesn't make him the winner. When you look at their teams side-by-side and Luck is 8-4 with the team which picked no. 1 overall last year, and he doesn't have either a stud running back or a reliable defense, you are talking about what Peyton Manning was doing in Indianapolis for years.

This again is NOT a true statement. This team is NOT the same team as last year. It has something like an 80% turnover, new staff, new defensive scheme, etc. They still have most of their best players, had a full draft, and full lot of cap space to address positions and depth in FA. The Redskins did not have that luxury. Then when you add in all the injuries and lack of money or depth due to shoddy drafting by Ceratto for years (I know--Boo Hoo, but it matters whether you think so or not).

This is the best ROY race in a long time.


Agreed!

10Char!!!!

[G Mobile]

Please don't start with "redefining the game" talk. This is more than likely a temporary offense as Griffin develops. The wild cat and Cam Newton were supposed to 'redefine the game' also and the NFL adapted. If Griffin is still killing the league in 3 years with this same offense then we can talk about its impact. Let's see how defenses react with more time.

[J-Mike88]

I love Luck, guy is fantastic and poised.
And I saw first-hand how he played clutch in the 2nd half to rally his Colts over my Packers back in week 5.

But to me, it seems clear that RG3 is the winner of this award as of now, not close.
I actually think Russell Wilson and Luck are closer.
It isn't all about records either, nor is it all about stats. But stats, for an individual award, should carry a little more weight.

Each team is in playoff position now, except RG3 is a game out at the moment. So team records, not a lot of separation there. Remember the Colts were awful last year, but they have some good WRs there...

Passer Rating for RG3 is 104.4, Wilson is at 95.2., and Luck way down at 76.1, right behind Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Mike Vick, and Christian Ponder.

And the reason he's that low is because Luck has 17 TDs to 16 Ints. That's bad any way you want to twist it. Those are the most 2 important personal stats for a QB.

Wilson is 19-8 (although that should read 18-9).
Griffin is 17-4, a better ratio RIGHT now than either Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning. Only Brady's is better.

How is Luck even in the discussion here with RG3 for this award?
Does someone here really think as of now, Luck deserves it over RG3?

[Caulibflower]

Just came across a good article breaking down the top three rookie quarterbacks this year: http://www.hawkblogger.com/2012/12/i...ilson-rg3.html

This is for you, jsagan. Looooots of stats.

[jsagan77]

Great post from another site.

Delayed gratification hasn't been a part of the Robert Griffin III NFL experience. It was like a Bond flick -- things got crazy before we, the audience, even settled in when RG3 laid waste to the New Orleans Saints in Week 1. Thing is, as we finish Week 13, it still hasn't gotten deliberate. The story arc has remained explosive. So in a season where rookie QBs are a huge draw, even Andrew Luck's remarkable plotline hasn't managed to outshine RG3.

But this could contain fuel for critics who believe RG3 won't age well as an NFL quarterback. Certainly not like Luck. Call it a grumpy assessment, a page from Eeyore's Quarterback Projections, but look close and there are moments, throws and hits that make even his biggest fans wonder. They make people think of other athletically gifted QBs. They make people think, "Enjoy this for what it is" because action flicks like this lack substance. And if the critic wanted to confirm those questions, he'd find some numbers to back him up.

• He'd point to Week 1, when RG3 shredded the Saints. The numbers showed dominance -- 19-26, 320 yards, a 138.9 passer rating -- but a critic would note short pass after short pass, many simply across the line of scrimmage, glorified handoffs. A critic could note that 13 weeks later, 74.6 percent of Griffin's completions this season have been less than 10 yards.

• He'd point to Week 6, when Griffin failed to get out of bounds on a scramble, and picked up a new key stat that isn't in the passer rating formula -- his first NFL concussion. What's athleticism if it gets you more involved with linebackers down the field? Is that sustainable?

• He'd then point to Week 7, when RG3 came back from that concussion and ran a season-high 13 times, including an incredible 76-yard TD run. The critic would say, "Great run, kid, but didn't last week teach you anything?" And that critic would then point out lessons not learned, because headed into this week, RG3 led all QBs with 100 run attempts, a total even the 250-plus-pound Cam Newton can't touch.

Add it up, and the critic builds his case: Great passing totals, but a penchant for thriving on the short stuff; great rushing totals, but already with a concussion in hand; a great knack for making plays, but a clear stubbornness to fall back on his legs in a league that will punish QBs who do.

The critic will thus conclude: Sure, RG3 has been incredible, but should I buy into the future?

In a word: Yes.

That's because such a case against RG3 simply doesn't hold up to a more advanced look at the tape, the numbers and the context of the situation Griffin finds himself in. It's why any critic who would claim RG3 is, say, merely a more evolved Michael Vick, is missing a guy who may become something more like Aaron Rodgers -- and isn't far off that level now.

Start with those short throws.

RG3 has thrown a high share of short passes, with 153 of his 205 completions (74.6 percent) thrown fewer than 10 yards. But he's just a tree in an NFL forest of QBs throwing short passes. Consider that Tom Brady, with a passer rating of 105.2, is throwing short at a far higher rate. Brady has thrown fewer than 10 yards on a whopping 222 of his 308 completions entering Week 13, or 81 percent, far ahead of Griffin. Matt Ryan, with perhaps the NFL's best downfield options in Julio Jones and Roddy White (as well as Tony Gonzalez), throws short 73 percent of the time, essentially the same as Griffin. Peyton Manning (74.1), Rodgers (73.4) and even Joe Flacco (70 percent) are all thriving on the short ball at a rate virtually the same as RG3.

If you claim the Redskins have RG3 pedaling in an offense built around the short throw -- quick slants, quick digs, across-the-formation shots -- then you might as well say Brady is being pushed while utilizing training wheels.

Then consider the "running QB" critique.

So far in 2013, of RG3's league-leading 100 carries, a full 63 of them were designed runs. That means through 11 games, and 367 drop backs, Griffin has actually chosen to scramble only 37 times. According to Pro Football Focus, Griffin is pressured at a somewhat scary rate of 35.1 percent of drop backs thanks to Washington's offensive line. Think of it this way: RG3 has seen pressure at an almost identical rate as Luck, and has scrambled on average about one more time per game. (Again: with 4.41 speed.) Given his ridiculous talents as a runner, the stronger case to be made is that RG3 is actually showing restraint as a runner, not too much confidence in his legs. His Run EPA is lower than even Jay Cutler's.

All of those points make the case that RG3's success does stand up to basic critiques. But there is an even greater aspect working in his favor from a long-range standpoint.

Griffin is, without overstating it, an extraordinarily accurate NFL QB. Not for his age, but for a thrower of the football, period. Evaluators will tell you that accuracy is probably the single greatest indicator of a QB's ability to succeed because it encapsulates everything. It's not just ball placement, it's timing; it's the ability to hit the right route by working through reads, throwing to the open man and, when you do, hitting him in a location that allows him to gain yards after the catch. And to even be consistently accurate, you have to do so many other things well, all starting between the ears. In baseball terms, it's the difference between control and command. Good control means you can throw strikes consistently; good command means you're painting corners and with proper depth on the pitches. RG3 has command.

According to PFF, RG3's accuracy percentage (which accounts for drops, throwaways, spikes, batted passes and passes where the QB is hit while throwing) is at an NFL-leading 80.5 percent. The lead itself is impressive, but to put that number in context, since PFF began tracking the stat in 2008, only Rodgers has a higher rate -- 80.6 percent. In other words, RG3 through 11 games is as accurate a passer as we've seen in the NFL over a five-year period when virtually every passing record has been torched.Among rookies in that time, Ryan has the best full-season mark, at 74.6 percent. How deterministic is that number? This season, the guys directly trailing RG3 are Rodgers, Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Matt Schaub and Brady. Pretty good company.

And RG3 isn't just accurate because he's throwing short. On throws of more than 20 yards, his accuracy percentage is 52.2 percent, third highest in the NFL. According to ESPN Stats & Info, he's completed 66.7 percent of those 20-plus-yard throws, second highest in the NFL. And RG3 actually throws downfield plenty next to his peers. On intermediate throws (10-20 yards) he's completed 42 passes, more than Brady or Rodgers. This goes back to last season at Baylor, where coaches Art Briles and Phil Montgomery tinkered with his delivery on the deep ball. His 72.4 percent completion percentage last season wasn't just pure college offensive gimmickry -- his 10.7 yards per attempt led the nation.

The accuracy stands up under another level of scrutiny -- pressure. Against five or more rushers, RG3 has completed 67.4 percent of passes, a higher rate than the impossible-to-blitz Peyton Manning. His accuracy percentage under pressure is an obscene 81.9 percent, an NFL high.

Satisfied? If you aren't, remember that this is all being done within an offense not exactly teeming with weapons. We all saw the Redskins add pass-catching help in free agency, an attempt to ease the transition for their rookie, but, as Bill Barnwell notes, "Despite Washington's best efforts to spend money this offseason and procure RG3 some weapons to throw to, their receiving corps has fallen apart this year." And "If Griffin were really struggling this year, we'd be looking at his receiving corps and saying that he didn't have anything to work with."

Critics can question the sustainability of RG3. They can nod to themselves every time he takes a hit when he should have been sliding. They can rightly say he'll need to learn to get out of harm's way. But restraint is there, and short throws are in every QB plot in this league. Ultimately, pointing to RG3's legs or short throws as a potential problem is like pointing to Greg Maddux's velocity as a problem. In both cases, what each guy does best is really the most important aspect to the position: Each is really, really accurate.

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by Caulibflower

Just came across a good article breaking down the top three rookie quarterbacks this year: http://www.hawkblogger.com/2012/12/i...ilson-rg3.html

This is for you, jsagan. Looooots of stats.

Skimmed the article and it's Ok but stats can be construed to your vantage point if you want them to be. This writer was pretty objective and reasonable though so thanks for the article. He did say that RG3 played poorly against top 10 D's (which isn't true) because he played great against the Bengals and his recievers let him down in the Pitt game (ten drops in one game is a season high and one of the highest EVER).

There is so many more aspects that need to be touched upon in this discussion. Like RG3's 138 passer rating against the blitz. Is that just nonsense?

I'm on my phone so I'm not getting lengthy but there are some good discussions on footballsfuture on the topic that blows this place out of the water so I hope some check it out.

[jsagan77]

What's funny is I had a guy neg rep me because I shared what my life was like with the forum. If my normal life is a brag to you all I completely encourage you to join my pro bowl trip to hawaii fantasy league. All inclusive trip to hawaii to stay with me and my family for the winner.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by J-Mike88

Does someone here really think as of now, Luck deserves it over RG3?

of course not, they've just been posting to that effect for several pages. are you not capable of reading basic english, or do you just like asking inane rhetorical questions because you think they make your post look more intelligent than it actually was?

[Caddy]

Doug Martin > Andrew Luck/RG3/Midget QB combined

[AntoinCD]

Watch Luck's throws against Miami and you will see a QB making impressive throw after impressive throw. The difference between Luck and RG3 is the intermediate passing game. RG3, through no fault of his own, throws short passes (screens, slants etc) and goes deep off play action. Hey, it's working now so until someone stops it there is no reason to change. However Andrew Luck is asked to go places with the ball that I haven't seen Griffin do once.

To be as crude as possible this is the basic play the Colts ran with 3.48 left in the first quarter. It's 3rd and 3 from their own 28.



So they line up in empty with trip sets to the right. Reggie Wayne is the far left WR and he is where Luck will eventually go with the ball. There are two clear out routes, one on either side. In an ideal situation Luck will dump it off to Dwayne Allen running a shallow crossing route at the sticks. However due to a good jam and some pressure he has to look elsewhere. Next read is likely the far right WR in the flat, however that isn't there either. So after stepping up to avoid the pressure he throws a dart just over the undercutting CB and hits Wayne for a 10 yard gain.


Notice the jam on Allen as he starts his route


Now there's is pressure all around him and he does a good job of avoiding it while keeping his eyes down the field. RG3 has shown a tendancy where he would have likely turned on himself and ran from the rush.


Now finally, after avoiding pressure, Luck throws an absolute dart to Reggie Wayne on an out pattern over an undercutting CB This whole play is just damn impressive.

Now don't get me wrong, RG3 has had his fair share of impressive plays too, however this is the type of throw the best QBs can and have to make. It was very reminiscent of Roethlisberger which makes sense since the Colts are running the old Pittsburgh offense

[FUNBUNCHER]

That was a difficult throw, but I don't think Luck would have been wrong to run it since it was only three yards.
Actually in that situation I think Kyle is calling RGIII's number to convert that down with a boot keeper towards the sideline.

Congrats to Luck for completing and converting that down, but the actual decision to throw with a corner underneath that route IMO was not the best decision.
Luck tends to lock on to Wayne no matter what and in this case I don't feel like Wayne was the most open WR. I have no idea.
Just saying, I don't know if that's the first read you want your QB making. To me that's your LAST read with no other options.
But hey Luck completed the pass. No harm, no foul.

I'm curious to know how many of Luck's INTs were pass attempts to Reggie Wayne??

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

That was a difficult throw, but I don't think Luck would have been wrong to run it since it was only three yards.
Actually in that situation I think Kyle is calling RGIII's number to convert that down with a boot keeper towards the sideline.

Congrats to Luck for completing and converting that down, but the actual decision to throw with a corner underneath that route IMO was not the best decision.
Luck tends to lock on to Wayne no matter what and in this case I don't feel like Wayne was the most open WR. I have no idea.
Just saying, I don't know if that's the first read you want your QB making. To me that's you LAST read with no other options.
But hey Luck completed the pass. No harm, no foul.

I'm curious to know how many of Luck's INTs were pass attempts to Reggie Wayne??

I think watching the play Wayne is likely the 3rd read. Ideally it's a quick dump off to the TE crossing, but as I mentioned because of the jam the timing was completely off and the rush got there too quick. Likewise the WR going into the flat had a CB squat there too so that would have been the wrong throw. Luck had a window because Wayne had a little depth behind the CB to make the throw possible. The two streaking WRs were likely decoys, IMO, to keep the safeties occupied. But that's the benefit of being in a 3rd and manageable distance. The whole playbook is open. The safeties can't cheat up to the sticks because they can be beaten deep

[Iamcanadian]

Both RG111 and Luck are sure fire top 5 QB's of the future, the best will be determined by Super Bowl count. They will both go to the HOF barring injuries. Forget stats, these guys are both winners and IMO, should tie for the OROY. Picking one over the other is absurd at this point.

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by njx9

of course not, they've just been posting to that effect for several pages. are you not capable of reading basic english, or do you just like asking inane rhetorical questions because you think they make your post look more intelligent than it actually was?

I read about a page worth of crap which was just a back & forth about POSTERS and nothing about the QBs.
You're a mod, you fix that.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by J-Mike88

I read about a page worth of crap which was just a back & forth about POSTERS and nothing about the QBs.
You're a mod, you fix that.

do i tell you when to flip the burger?

[gpngc]

I have to ask this question to all of the wise posters here for selfish reasons:

Forget who SHOULD win it. Who WILL the voters vote ultimately choose? Can they deny Luck if/when he takes that team to the playoffs?

And a second part, in an OCD-type-of-way wouldn't it be extremely difficult for the voters to vote for Luck if he ends up with the same # of picks and TDs (or more picks than TDs) considering RGIII will likely end up with easily the greatest rookie statistical season of all time?

[XxXdragonXxX]

Originally Posted by njx9

more personal attacks? nice.

Originally Posted by njx9

do i tell you when to flip the burger?

I'm sorry....what?

[FUNBUNCHER]

If the SKins run the table and finish 10-6, winning the NFCE, Robert will win.
That's unlikely to happen however.
WHat is likely is that the Colts finish with 10 wins which I think cinches the award for Luck.

Any football fan being honest would have told you before the season there was no way Andrew Luck was going to lead the Colts to the playoffs, let alone win 10 games.

If the race is close I think there's a tendency among voters to give it to the guy taken first overall.

As it stands I think this could end up being the closest OROTY vote in years.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by XxXdragonXxX

I'm sorry....what?

i know, i know, it requires some context, but:

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/member.php?u=1064

alternately, you could try reading the rules you agreed to abide by when you signed up for your account. in which there's a relatively explicit one dealing with the above. both of the above, in fact. cute try, though. i'm sure you totally thought you had a 'gotcha' moment.

[prock]

Alright, you guys completely wasted your lives arguing this award and the real winner hasn't even been brought up. Your 2012-13 OROTY is clearly Matt Kalil. Breakin' molds, bitches.

[WCH]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

Watch Luck's throws against Miami and you will see a QB making impressive throw after impressive throw. The difference between Luck and RG3 is the intermediate passing game. RG3, through no fault of his own, throws short passes (screens, slants etc) and goes deep off play action. Hey, it's working now so until someone stops it there is no reason to change. However Andrew Luck is asked to go places with the ball that I haven't seen Griffin do once.

To be as crude as possible this is the basic play the Colts ran with 3.48 left in the first quarter. It's 3rd and 3 from their own 28.



So they line up in empty with trip sets to the right. Reggie Wayne is the far left WR and he is where Luck will eventually go with the ball. There are two clear out routes, one on either side. In an ideal situation Luck will dump it off to Dwayne Allen running a shallow crossing route at the sticks. However due to a good jam and some pressure he has to look elsewhere. Next read is likely the far right WR in the flat, however that isn't there either. So after stepping up to avoid the pressure he throws a dart just over the undercutting CB and hits Wayne for a 10 yard gain.


Notice the jam on Allen as he starts his route


Now there's is pressure all around him and he does a good job of avoiding it while keeping his eyes down the field. RG3 has shown a tendancy where he would have likely turned on himself and ran from the rush.


Now finally, after avoiding pressure, Luck throws an absolute dart to Reggie Wayne on an out pattern over an undercutting CB This whole play is just damn impressive.

Now don't get me wrong, RG3 has had his fair share of impressive plays too, however this is the type of throw the best QBs can and have to make. It was very reminiscent of Roethlisberger which makes sense since the Colts are running the old Pittsburgh offense

Wait...are you actually watching games and basing your opinion on what you see?

[jsagan77]

I hope that the voters aren't complete retards and can add the proper context and caveats of each individuals season. I hope they realize that Luck took a completely new team to the playoffs, not last years team. I hope they realise that a lot of those 4th quarter comebacks were because of his inconsistencies. I hope they recognise how clutch RG3 has been and takes the cap hit and injuries and level of competition into consideration. And since we're talking OFFENSIVE ROOKIE OF THE YEAR NOT OFFENSIVE TRADITIONAL POCKET PASSER OF THE YEAR I hope they are smart enough to take in all the yards (passing and rushing), TD's, efficiency, and Int's.

Remember this award is not the MVP equivalent, this is the OPOTY equivalent. That's why wins aren't much of a factor. This will boil down to who is the better offensive player not who's the most traditional QB. So with RG3's all time great numbers vs Andrew 'Fck it I'll chuck it' Luck's Romoesque season I can't imagine RG3 not winning.