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Old 12-05-2012, 10:31 PM    (permalink
gpngc
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Ugh. Cam Newton's rookie year was fantastic but it's not even comparable to what RGIII is doing.

Statistically, RGIII is having EASILY the greatest rookie season in the history of the NFL. Easily.

What Newton did last year was show many, many glimpses of something special, while keeping his team competitive for the most part.

What RGIII is doing is leading his teams to win BECAUSE of him.

When you're evaluating a college player in System X, stats can be misleading and it's fair to question how his transition will go.

RGIII is transitioning no where. The stats here matter. There is no reason to 'take them with a grain of salt' at all. YPA, TD/TO, and most importantly PPG and Ws. And he's made plenty of plays within the pocket as a straight drop-back passer this year.

To me it's just so obvious that I'd rather have RGIII than Sam Bradford and that's all that needs to be said in this discussion. There is almost no chance those picks can make up in the disparity of the two player's talents and upside.

RGIII has almost no help in Washington and already has 6 wins. Because of this, it is reasonable to assume he would have had success early with St. Louis, which has a better skeleton. And don't say Morris because it's obvious that Morris has huge holes because of the presence of RGIII. He's a good runner but there are a bunch of backs that would excel in that situation.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:58 PM    (permalink
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I basically agree with gpngc. There was never a point, in college or in the NFL, when I watched Bradford and thought "Wow, I wouldn't mind him Quarterbacking my team!"

It's not that Bradford is bad (and I actually think he can be pretty darned good). I'd just simply rather have RGIII than "Bradford + Other Guys."

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Old 12-05-2012, 11:01 PM    (permalink
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They should regret it. Let's be honest here... RG3 is a special QB.
Bradford is not.
I like him, good person like RG3 is, and he has a fine arm.
But he's not a star.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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Most people don't get to see Bradford very often because the Rams don't get nationally televised games. I also doubt people are watching the Rams on their game ticket either. I have seen every snap he has taken with the Rams and can testify he is damn good. Here are his throws last year over 15 yards. He is even better this year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhLDkYravNA
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:17 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i always regret taking a rookie qb based on a partial season over a less flashy veteran qb who also had an impressive rookie season. 'but zomg, it wasn't the samez!'. i mean, that's totally true. one won the roty award, the other hasn't yet. 'but statzzzz!' i know, right? those are totally transferrable across systems, and years and players. there's absolutely no difference, ever. and qb rating is literally the end-all, be-all of how good a player you are. that's why everyone on earth agrees that tony romo is a top 5 all-time qb, and how we all know that matt schaub is better than dan marino and joe montana. because stats.
This is so crucial to the argument at hand. I think the Rams should have a hard time regretting anything at this point. Sam Bradford could theoretically be the better QB 10 years from now.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:50 AM    (permalink
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i always regret taking a rookie qb based on a partial season over a less flashy veteran qb who also had an impressive rookie season. 'but zomg, it wasn't the samez!'. i mean, that's totally true. one won the roty award, the other hasn't yet. 'but statzzzz!' i know, right? those are totally transferrable across systems, and years and players. there's absolutely no difference, ever. and qb rating is literally the end-all, be-all of how good a player you are. that's why everyone on earth agrees that tony romo is a top 5 all-time qb, and how we all know that matt schaub is better than dan marino and joe montana. because stats.
classic elway apologist.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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I'd have to say they do, although trading Bradford with his huge contract, might have been impossible.
Holmgren's failure to get a trade with the Rams for RG111 will also leave a legacy in Cleveland for many years to come.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:53 AM    (permalink
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http://101sports.com/templates/audio...a=11448&type=s
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i always regret taking a rookie qb based on a partial season over a less flashy veteran qb who also had an impressive rookie season. 'but zomg, it wasn't the samez!'. i mean, that's totally true. one won the roty award, the other hasn't yet. 'but statzzzz!' i know, right? those are totally transferrable across systems, and years and players. there's absolutely no difference, ever. and qb rating is literally the end-all, be-all of how good a player you are. that's why everyone on earth agrees that tony romo is a top 5 all-time qb, and how we all know that matt schaub is better than dan marino and joe montana. because stats.
RGIII is clearly a better player right now and projects to be better in the future. This is my argument based on college and pro perfocamce and the stats only support it.

I credit the Shanahans for how they've incorporated the read option into the offense but literally every oc in the lg would know to use rg3 out of the pocket and w play action. Because of this, the accross systems argument is weak.

Rg3 makes everyone better because of his mobility and deep ball ability. The rams ol would look better with him mainly because he'd single handedly improve the running game substaintially.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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And I also never mentioned qb rating. Ypa Td to turnovers. Ppg and wins. Those were the stats I mentioned.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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Right now? Maybe. Down the road? I don't know. RG III is having a magnificent rookie year, it's his rookie year. A lot of these athletic rookie Qbs have great success in their 1st year (Vince Young, Mike Vick, Cam Newton, etc.). However, it's how you develop your game as a pocket QB and only rely on the athleticism when needed.

Right now, the Redskins are running the Pistol Offense. That isn't going to work next year like it did this season. Opposing defenses will catch on to all these read options (See Cam Newton). Eventually, most likely sooner, RG III will have to adapt to an NFL Offense and become a pocket passer who relies on his speed and athleticism to bail him out when nothing is there.

The Rams have done a nice job building their team and the next 2 drafts they have the opportunity to build around the QB. If Bradford isn't the answer, I still think they made a good move. At the time, you have 80 million invested in a QB with no weapons and a weak o-line. I personally am not a fan of Bradford, but like Jeff Fisher and the front office did, made the correct move.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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The Skins don't run the option as much as Vince Young did, but so much of their efficiency passing the ball comes from play action and defenders cheating against the run. That's what'll change the most and why Bob will have to adjust, and once that happens we'll see whether he's the next Elway and Young or Cam and Vick.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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I am a Rams fan, so my opinion is automatically going to be seen as biased. That being said, I don't think they regret their decision. And I don't think it has as much to do with the comparison of the two players as it does with the direction Fisher and Snead wanted to take this team when they got here.

Is RGIII the more dynamic of the two? Yes. Better athlete? Yes. As passers they are both very good, but with different styles, so I'm not sure that argument can be made either way. Sam has a lot of great qualities that have yet to be translated onto the field, but if you look at his play this season, he is clearly progressing.

The Rams simply took a look at what they had and decided that Bradford was their QB of the future, and they could turn the #2 pick into several meaningful players upon which to build. It has already netted them Brockers, Jenkins, and Pead. This year it will return them a pick in the teens, which could potentially grow into more picks if they continue their current trend of trading down to add pieces. And next year they will net another 1st rounder, which also has the potential to bring more picks. I believe they saw the trade as a sure thing. They would get the picks, which would mean more players. So you have to take into consideration that, while RGIII may be the better player, if the Rams as a whole have a solidly built team with talent and depth at all positions in 2014, then they have accomplished what they set out to do, regardless of how good the player they passed on has become.
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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I am a Rams fan, so my opinion is automatically going to be seen as biased. That being said, I don't think they regret their decision. And I don't think it has as much to do with the comparison of the two players as it does with the direction Fisher and Snead wanted to take this team when they got here.

Is RGIII the more dynamic of the two? Yes. Better athlete? Yes. As passers they are both very good, but with different styles, so I'm not sure that argument can be made either way. Sam has a lot of great qualities that have yet to be translated onto the field, but if you look at his play this season, he is clearly progressing.

The Rams simply took a look at what they had and decided that Bradford was their QB of the future, and they could turn the #2 pick into several meaningful players upon which to build. It has already netted them Brockers, Jenkins, and Pead. This year it will return them a pick in the teens, which could potentially grow into more picks if they continue their current trend of trading down to add pieces. And next year they will net another 1st rounder, which also has the potential to bring more picks. I believe they saw the trade as a sure thing. They would get the picks, which would mean more players. So you have to take into consideration that, while RGIII may be the better player, if the Rams as a whole have a solidly built team with talent and depth at all positions in 2014, then they have accomplished what they set out to do, regardless of how good the player they passed on has become.
100% agree. One of those situations where both teams get what they wanted and win.
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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I am a Rams fan, so my opinion is automatically going to be seen as biased. That being said, I don't think they regret their decision. And I don't think it has as much to do with the comparison of the two players as it does with the direction Fisher and Snead wanted to take this team when they got here.

Is RGIII the more dynamic of the two? Yes. Better athlete? Yes. As passers they are both very good, but with different styles, so I'm not sure that argument can be made either way. Sam has a lot of great qualities that have yet to be translated onto the field, but if you look at his play this season, he is clearly progressing.

The Rams simply took a look at what they had and decided that Bradford was their QB of the future, and they could turn the #2 pick into several meaningful players upon which to build. It has already netted them Brockers, Jenkins, and Pead. This year it will return them a pick in the teens, which could potentially grow into more picks if they continue their current trend of trading down to add pieces. And next year they will net another 1st rounder, which also has the potential to bring more picks. I believe they saw the trade as a sure thing. They would get the picks, which would mean more players. So you have to take into consideration that, while RGIII may be the better player, if the Rams as a whole have a solidly built team with talent and depth at all positions in 2014, then they have accomplished what they set out to do, regardless of how good the player they passed on has become.

And promising OG Watkins. Big, strong road grader.
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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exactly. there's no more merit to this discussion, than there is to one calling ryan tannehill a bust. have the discussion in two years when there's actually a body of work.
So his 3rd year, fine.
What year is this for Bradford again? Body of work?
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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Bradford took a 1-15 team to one game of winning the division his rookie season. Last season, the lockout and a new scheme, plus his high ankle sprain (from running for his life behind a terrible o-line) set him back. This year he has been very good. He's getting better each week too. Had a few bad/mediocre games, but many very good games. The o-line has been better too lately. Getting pro bowl OC Wells back has helped. Sam's main weapon Amendola has missed numerous games too. His only legitimate target has been 4th rounder Chris Givens. If Sam had a true #1 WR, his numbers would skyrocket. If the Rams can draft Allen or Williams, resign Amendola, and Givens keeps developing, and hopefully Quick too, the Rams offense should thrive. Sam could finally have some weapons. A big pass catching TE like the Notre Dame dude would be nice too.
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:11 AM    (permalink
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the rams really had no choice, they had so much money committed to Sam Bradford to try to move his contract and get a team willing to pick it up? it seemed like their was no team really wanting to do that. Plus they wouldn't get fair value in return. They could have swallowed their pride, trade Bradford, for picks. Draft RGIII, and they might be alot better for it. Jeff Fisher saw something in Bradford that many people see in him and many people don't see, a franchise QB. Fisher believed Sam is the guy and they committed to him, hence them trading the pick #2 pick. But you also have to look what they got in return for the #2 pick. The Rams got the Washington Redskins next 1st round picks for the next two years. Depending on who they draft or trade for, will ultimately help decide if the Rams indeed made a mistaken with this. We have to see Bradford & RGIII fully pan out, how both teams do in the draft/FA, and we need to see how the teams do for the next couple of years.
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't say regret.. we're going to get more value out of those picks than one player. We have multiple holes, not just one. Bradford with some continuity will becoming a GOOD NFL Quarterback.. however, he needs a continuity. I think the Rams will go big on playmakers and an elite Wide Receiver this year which is gonna help.

Plus, Michael Brockers is playing like a monster inline as well, which I love.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:14 PM    (permalink
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Why has Cam Newton been brought up in this conversation?

He's clearly better than both Bradford and RG3. I don't see how he is relevant to this discussion.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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No

Not this ******* conversation again!
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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The Rams should regret not drafting Kirk Cousins more.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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Bradford has had a few game winning drives this year. He gets better as the game goes on. Mr. Clutch? He only trails one QB, who might be the GOAT, Mr. Manning.

@espn_nfcwest: Top five in 4th quarter Total QBR this season: P.Manning 90.1, Bradford 83.4, Romo 77.7, Rodgers, 74.9, RG3 72.9
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
Bradford is still only 25. It's too early for the Rams to give up on him. Many people seem married to the idea that he's a bust, but I don't think he's as bad as they want to believe.
I agree.

On top of that, his "franchise LT that will protect his blindside for the next 10 years" turned out to be a huuuuuuuuge BUST and is no longer with the team.



And he doesn't have any WR's or TE to throw to.


Get him some weapons and then we'll see how good he is. He didn't go into a situation like Matt Ryan where he has Tony Gonzalez, Michael Turner, and Roddy White.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armageddon View Post
Bradford has had a few game winning drives this year. He gets better as the game goes on. Mr. Clutch? He only trails one QB, who might be the GOAT, Mr. Manning.

@espn_nfcwest: Top five in 4th quarter Total QBR this season: P.Manning 90.1, Bradford 83.4, Romo 77.7, Rodgers, 74.9, RG3 72.9
I'm really suprised to not see Luck on here with all his 4th Q comebacks.
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