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Old 12-11-2012, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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Give the Colts DE Sheldon Richardson. If he's gone, then we go CB Xavier Rhodes.
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Robcards View Post
The Chiefs and Cardinals are far too desperate at QB to not draft one with their first pick, I'm sorry but I just don't see Barkley falling that far. Even if the Raiders don't draft a QB, the Chiefs take Geno and Cardinals take Barkley. What scenario do you see Barkley going late 1st? Who would take him late 1st? No one in the playoffs needs a QB.
You also need to bear in mind that guys like Alex Smith and likely Matt Flynn will also be available in free agency and/or trade.

I'm not even sure Smith is under contract next year but if he is and if I can use a 5th round pick to get him I would be very tempted

What makes the Cardinals better? Alex Smith and Luke Joeckel or Matt Barkley, DJ Fluker and a 5th round draft choice?

The Chiefs likely can't pass on a QB but they will also likely have their choice of guys, and in my mind Barkley is a clear cut 3rd choice, possibly 4th if someone falls in love with Glennon's tools.

As for who could take him late first? Hypothetically; KC, Jacksonville, Arizona, Buffalo, New York Jets, Philadelphia etc through a trade up or trade down
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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You also need to bear in mind that guys like Alex Smith and likely Matt Flynn will also be available in free agency and/or trade.

I'm not even sure Smith is under contract next year but if he is and if I can use a 5th round pick to get him I would be very tempted

What makes the Cardinals better? Alex Smith and Luke Joeckel or Matt Barkley, DJ Fluker and a 5th round draft choice?

The Chiefs likely can't pass on a QB but they will also likely have their choice of guys, and in my mind Barkley is a clear cut 3rd choice, possibly 4th if someone falls in love with Glennon's tools.

As for who could take him late first? Hypothetically; KC, Jacksonville, Arizona, Buffalo, New York Jets, Philadelphia etc through a trade up or trade down
It wouldn't be Fluker it'd be someone more like Lane Johnson. Fluker projects as a mauling run blocking RT, which they already drafted last year in Massie. And it isn't a matter of who would make them better next year, it'd be long-term as well. If they trade for Smith he's under contract for 2 years, and is a borderline starter, and debatable whether or not Barkley would be better than him or not in 2013, but certainly has more potential to get better whereas Smith is WYSIWYG, or probably worse. Matt Flynn is a backup I don't see any teams saying oh boy let's get Matt Flynn to be our starter in 2013, was shocked the Seahawks even signed him last year.
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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It wouldn't be Fluker it'd be someone more like Lane Johnson. Fluker projects as a mauling run blocking RT, which they already drafted last year in Massie. And it isn't a matter of who would make them better next year, it'd be long-term as well. If they trade for Smith he's under contract for 2 years, and is a borderline starter, and debatable whether or not Barkley would be better than him or not in 2013, but certainly has more potential to get better whereas Smith is WYSIWYG, or probably worse. Matt Flynn is a backup I don't see any teams saying oh boy let's get Matt Flynn to be our starter in 2013, was shocked the Seahawks even signed him last year.
Even if they did go in any other direction, Joeckel looks like a stud. Someone who they can build around for the next decade. The Cardinals offensive line is a disgrace. No matter who is back there they won't cope without better protection. Alex Smith, for all his criticism is a guy who can take a team to the postseason. The Cardinals have the defense, they have Fitzgerald. If they shore up their front then he can bring success. For all the talk for years that first round QBs are the way to go it has kinda been disproved recently. While guys like Bradford, Gabbert, Ponder, Locker etc have been less than stellar guys like Dalton, Wilson, Foles to an extent have shown they can be successful. I am not neccessarily saying that is the way I would go but if I have Barkley rated as a fringe first rounder then I don't want to take him in the top 5, particularly with a draft that is so strong with linemen.
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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Care to wager on it? =)
Sure. ....... 10
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Even if they did go in any other direction, Joeckel looks like a stud. Someone who they can build around for the next decade. The Cardinals offensive line is a disgrace. No matter who is back there they won't cope without better protection. Alex Smith, for all his criticism is a guy who can take a team to the postseason. The Cardinals have the defense, they have Fitzgerald. If they shore up their front then he can bring success. For all the talk for years that first round QBs are the way to go it has kinda been disproved recently. While guys like Bradford, Gabbert, Ponder, Locker etc have been less than stellar guys like Dalton, Wilson, Foles to an extent have shown they can be successful. I am not neccessarily saying that is the way I would go but if I have Barkley rated as a fringe first rounder then I don't want to take him in the top 5, particularly with a draft that is so strong with linemen.
As a Jets fan I'm offended that you just used the phrase 'he can take a team to the playoffs.' Sanchez has been to 2 AFC Championships, want the Cardinals to take his horrendous contract off the Jets hands? How about Tebow we'll give him to you for free. Alex Smith finally had a mediocre season and his team went to the playoffs touting a top 3 defense, he is a backup in the NFL and any team that starts him is at a disadvantage because of him. 'He just wins' is horrendous logic and something that the agents of Flacco and Alex Smith and whoever else who can't say anything better about their QB came up with. The Niners would've went to the playoffs with Tolzien under center last year, the division was mostly garbage and their D and run game was sufficient to handle it.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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Allen is a great pick!
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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You also need to bear in mind that guys like Alex Smith and likely Matt Flynn will also be available in free agency and/or trade.

I'm not even sure Smith is under contract next year but if he is and if I can use a 5th round pick to get him I would be very tempted

What makes the Cardinals better? Alex Smith and Luke Joeckel or Matt Barkley, DJ Fluker and a 5th round draft choice?

The Chiefs likely can't pass on a QB but they will also likely have their choice of guys, and in my mind Barkley is a clear cut 3rd choice, possibly 4th if someone falls in love with Glennon's tools.

As for who could take him late first? Hypothetically; KC, Jacksonville, Arizona, Buffalo, New York Jets, Philadelphia etc through a trade up or trade down
Do you really think it is likely that Flynn or Skith get trade within the division to the Cards?

Smith has an option year next year so it is a possibility that he hits the open market, but are the Cardinals REALLY going to be content going with Smith as the savior of their franchise? You know what you are going to get from him, sure, but what you are going to get is not much at all.
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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Don't see WR considering the wealth of youth at the position. Givens, Gibson, Quick, and Pettis, etc. like I said I'm not sure how Watkins is, but if he isn't great then 2 OL in the 1st makes sense to me
Gibson, Amendola and Steve Smith are all FAs at the end of the year. Rams might want to resign Amendola but he has been injured an excessive amount last year and this year.

That leaves Givens, Quick and Pettis as our receiver corps. Pettis is a 3 or 4 at best and Quick has yet to see the field much this year.

At any rate no matter how you slice it we still need a number one and some quality depth. Hunter or even a Corderelle Patterson would bring the big play capacity that we sorely lack.

Outside of maybe C. Warmack I don't see any guards that are worth a first round pick.
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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Gibson, Amendola and Steve Smith are all FAs at the end of the year. Rams might want to resign Amendola but he has been injured an excessive amount last year and this year.

That leaves Givens, Quick and Pettis as our receiver corps. Pettis is a 3 or 4 at best and Quick has yet to see the field much this year.

At any rate no matter how you slice it we still need a number one and some quality depth. Hunter or even a Corderelle Patterson would bring the big play capacity that we sorely lack.

Outside of maybe C. Warmack I don't see any guards that are worth a first round pick.

Would love one of these guys. WR Williams too. The Rams have to come away with one OL and one WR in rd 1.
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Old 12-11-2012, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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1. Oakland Raiders - Projected record (3-13) Projected SOS (0.488)
Geno Smith - QB - West Virginia
Ew. No. God no.
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Old 12-11-2012, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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Even though Barkley is eqivalen to Dalton. I'll gladly take any one of the prospects over Quinn or Cassel....Why did you decide Smith is above Barkley? I would think the close connection to Oakland, barkley would be their QB of choice. Also, Jacksonville would probably take a qb too right? Blaine Gabbert or Chad Henne? That's like choosing between an amputation and an rusty dagger suppository right? Good mock man. Thanks for the insight.
What connection?

Also, lol@ Barkley going #1 overall.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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Gibson, Amendola and Steve Smith are all FAs at the end of the year. Rams might want to resign Amendola but he has been injured an excessive amount last year and this year.

That leaves Givens, Quick and Pettis as our receiver corps. Pettis is a 3 or 4 at best and Quick has yet to see the field much this year.

At any rate no matter how you slice it we still need a number one and some quality depth. Hunter or even a Corderelle Patterson would bring the big play capacity that we sorely lack.

Outside of maybe C. Warmack I don't see any guards that are worth a first round pick.
Didn't realize Gibson was a FA I thought this was his 3rd year not 4th. If Quick truly isn't making progress id expect they'd at least re-sign Gibson. Amendola being a Ram next year is probably doubtful though. WR was a big need last year too and Fisher didn't take one in the first round either though.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:35 AM    (permalink
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Ew. No. God no.
Care to elaborate?
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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8. Buffalo Bills - Projected record (6-10) Projected SOS (0.492)

Bjoern Werner - DE - Florida State
I think they take Landry Jones on day 2 considering his experience in pistol formations at OU, I think he'd be the best fit for Gailey's offense.

9. Cleveland Browns - Projected record (6-10) Projected SOS (0.500)
Damontre Moore - DE - Texas A&M

13. Miami Dolphins - Projected record (7-9) Projected SOS (0.492)[/b]
Keenan Allen - WR - California

14. Cincinnati Bengals - Projected record (8-8) Projected SOS (0.461)
Jarvis Jones - OLB/DE - Georgia
Werner is a good pick for Buffalo, although with Williams playing LE, I think a more natural RE is a better pick in this situation, and IMO Moore fits in that regard, and I also have him rated higher. Werner I think could make the move (I believe he played RE early in his career), but Moore is more natural, and Williams is a more natural LE.
I dont see them going dline however, unless all QB, and LB, possibly WR options are gone. I think a QB like L. Jones is a good option in round 2 or 3, if Gailey is still here next year.
I have been throwing this out there with no response, Jarvis Jones could have a familiar role to Von Miller in this defense, OLB on first and second down, then slide down to DE and rush the passer on 3rd down. Sheppard and Bradham are starting to figure things out at ILB and SOLB respectively, Barnett is 32 and while productive, is starting to decline. Thoughts on that?
Tyler Wilson - I have to throw in my .02. I have him as the best QB in this draft, and have had it that way since last year. Watching him this year this is what I see: The same guy I saw last year (Field general, a guy with a great arm who stares down the barrel of a gun and completes passes (when his WR's hold on to the pass) with good accuracy. He could not control the situation Petrino put that team in, or that he had the worst talent base around him in comparison to the last 4 years at Arkansas. I actually thought he out performed the circumstances. He did not have the best WR corps in the country, or a air-raid spread attack with one of the top 5(?) WR corps, nope, he had Colbi "dropsy's" Hamilton, and a lame duck interm HC. I am actually shocked at how this years QB rankings are playing out across the web. I also have Ryan Nassib as my #2 QB, and my scouting report is basically the same as Wilson's, minus the program issues, and would take either of them over Smith and Barkley. IMO both Wilson and Nassib will ascend once people actually start watching the tape.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:42 AM    (permalink
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Interesting points about Werner, Moore, and Jones. You lost me at Tyler Wilson though, I couldn't disagree more. Tyler Wilson had plenty of talent around him, and Cobi Hamilton is a stud. If Barkley and Wilson declared last year do you honestly think Wilson would have went before Barkley?
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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Care to elaborate?
Just can't see Reggie drafting a raw QB prospect onto a team in such disrepair. I feel like we'll let Palmer hold the reigns another year while we add talent to this mid-major caliber roster.

If anything, he'll attempt to trade that pick to a team wanting a QB.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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Interesting points about Werner, Moore, and Jones. You lost me at Tyler Wilson though, I couldn't disagree more. Tyler Wilson had plenty of talent around him, and Cobi Hamilton is a stud. If Barkley and Wilson declared last year do you honestly think Wilson would have went before Barkley?
What do you disagree with other than the lack of talent around him?
Hamilton I was high on (first/second round in my mocks high), and I think is talented, but I cant get passed the lack of concentration and drops in games, particularly big games (LSU) and from what I have read, practice as well. I expect him to have big games against Rutgers, A & M, Ole Miss and Tulsa's secondary's, particularly with those teams lack of depth in the secondary, and being crossed to death. A stud IMO is going to do better against the LSU's, Alabama's and S. Carolina's of the world. That LSU game this year, he was afraid to catch the ball in the 4th quarter... Outside of Hamilton no one on that team had more than 21 catches, and I dont see much of an NFL future on the roster at WR at this point.
I think Barkley's stock peeked last year, and he probably could have gone before Wilson. Although in my first 2013 mock, which I posted 5/16/2012 I have the QB's going as follows: 2 – Jacksonville – Tyler Wilson (QB – Arkansas), 9 – Oakland – Logan Thomas (QB – Va. Tech.), 10 – Seattle – Matt Barkley (QB – U.S.C.),15 – Arizona – Tyler Bray (QB – Tennessee). I believe that once people watched the tape and evaluated Wilson properly he would have gone ahead of Barkley, unless a WCO team picked Barkley first as a scheme fit (I will re-post my initial evaluations of both if you want), which I thought then and feel know is the only team he will get picked by. Wilson announced early that he was returning so this mock is the first one I did with the two of them in it.
My "prospect crush" on Wilson has nothing to do with appeasing Vidae or other SWDC folk, I annoy them regularly, and everything to do with having believed and continuing to believe that Wilson is the better NFL QB prospect.
Honestly, if Cleveland does not take Barkely had he declared I think Miami takes Tannehill or Wilson had he declared, Buffalo probably takes the other and Barkley falls to Seattle or someone else, barring a trade up. So hypothetically speaking I think their are two scenerios that make me say yes and no. With a gun to my head, I think Cleveland still takes Richardson, then is more likely to trade up and take Barkley, with Tannehill and Wilson going before Barkley. Miami likely taking Tannehill still due to his athleticism, arm strength, and familiarity with Sherman, and Buffalo taking Wilson (He fits Nix's drafting philosophy to a T).

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Old 12-14-2012, 12:03 AM    (permalink
Hermstheman83
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What connection?

Also, lol@ Barkley going #1 overall.
Do they still make you guys' take geography classes in the california elementary school? I thought USC was close to Oakland, nothing like being able to cheer on a homegrown trojan QB for the Oakland raiders. I've read multiple reports he would have went ahead of Tannehill last year...so I wouldn't assume that's that far out of the question.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:14 AM    (permalink
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Do they still make you guys' take geography classes in the california elementary school? I thought USC was close to Oakland, nothing like being able to cheer on a homegrown trojan QB for the Oakland raiders. I've read multiple reports he would have went ahead of Tannehill last year...so I wouldn't assume that's that far out of the question.
Well, sure USC is closer to Oakland than New York. But there is absolutely no geographical connection between Oakland and USC. The cultures are so entirely different between northern Cal in the Bay Area and southern Cal in LA. And I have lived in both areas.

Just no.

Just for reference, the distance between USC and O.co Coliseum is almost exactly the distance between Pittsburgh and NYC and twice the distance between Boston and NYC. Would you ever hear anyone say "He went to school/grew up in Pittsburgh, so clearly the Jets should draft him"?
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:35 AM    (permalink
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Would you ever hear anyone say "He went to school/grew up in Pittsburgh, so clearly the Jets should draft him"?
Well...Aliquippa don't miss.
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