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Old 04-19-2007, 11:01 AM    (permalink
BigDawg819
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Originally Posted by Vikes99ej View Post
I didn't know that Alexander was unproductive. He was injured last year, but before that he was an endzone machine.
One MVP year does not make a Hall of Famer, years of consistency and productivity makes a Hall of Famer. Besides its the Seahawks, they got Steve Largent in isn't that enough? I mean 1 Super Bowl Appearance 1 Hall of Famer.... :D
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On another note, Nicklas Backstrom is amazingly good.
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Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

So new rule, NBA: Unless you have a root canal at halftime, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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Alexander had consecutive years of 1,400, 1,600 and 1,800 yard years. He also had double-digit TDs in each of those year. I think if he can match those numbers in the next few years he should be considered.
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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That's basically what I'm saying. However, given the injuries this past year and the lack of productive games before the injuries even happened, I can't say he's a definite HOF candidate at this time. Why are you arguing this when we both agree?
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bsaza2358 View Post
That's basically what I'm saying. However, given the injuries this past year and the lack of productive games before the injuries even happened, I can't say he's a definite HOF candidate at this time. Why are you arguing this when we both agree?
Umm... I was talking to BigDawg819. Sorry for the miscommunication.
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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No worries. I thought it was clear that Bigdawg and I were in agreement on this anyway...
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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Alexander hasn't been that consistently impressive to me. He has a history of injuries that have limited him significantly. If he can bounce back and have a 1600 yard, 20 TD season, I'd put him on the list. Right now, he's kind of a flash in the pan type. Honestly, Clinton Portis is more likely to get in the HOF right now.
This is inaccurate. I don't think SA gets in (or deserves to) but he certainly does not have a history of injuries.

GP GS C Yds Avg Lg TD
2000 Seattle Seahawks 16 1 64 313 4.9 50 2
2001 Seattle Seahawks 16 12 309 1318 4.3 88 14
2002 Seattle Seahawks 16 16 295 1175 4.0 58 16
2003 Seattle Seahawks 16 15 326 1435 4.4 55 14
2004 Seattle Seahawks 16 16 353 1696 4.8 44 16
2005 Seattle Seahawks 16 16 370 1880 5.1 88 27
2006 Seattle Seahawks 10 10 252 896 3.6 33 7
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by eacantdraft View Post
I love how people think every player who is retiring and has played for a while is going into the Hall of Fame.

Unless you are a true superstar during your playing days, a player is not going to get into the Hall of Fame any time soon.

Football has a huge backlog of potential Hall of Famers as it is. Look at Art Monk and he hasn't gotten in yet. Harry Carson took years to get in to the point where he wanted his name withdrawn from consideration.

The Football Hall of Fame selection method needs some serious reforms. Only 39 people pick the Hall of Famers. Only a maximum of of 6 players can be picked every year. Plus the old timers selections push the backlog of eligable players even more. And expansion has created a bigger pool of more eligable players.

Unless you are Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Marvin Harrison, and maybe LaDanian Tomlinson (needs to play a few more season), there is no guarantee you will get in the first time, or even the second or third time.

This also means that players like Drew Bledsoe and Eddie George (despite what the homers and fangirls say) won't be getting in at all.

If youre a Giants fan like you claim to be, then you are a complete moron if you feel that Michael Strahan isn't a first ballot HOFer.

Ray Lewis is first ballot as well. Among other players.

Seriously...you honestly think only those said players in your post are the only ones who deserve first time status? No defensive players are worthy?

SMH...
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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Uber pwnage!
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by PapaBearHalas View Post
This is inaccurate. I don't think SA gets in (or deserves to) but he certainly does not have a history of injuries.

GP GS C Yds Avg Lg TD
2000 Seattle Seahawks 16 1 64 313 4.9 50 2
2001 Seattle Seahawks 16 12 309 1318 4.3 88 14
2002 Seattle Seahawks 16 16 295 1175 4.0 58 16
2003 Seattle Seahawks 16 15 326 1435 4.4 55 14
2004 Seattle Seahawks 16 16 353 1696 4.8 44 16
2005 Seattle Seahawks 16 16 370 1880 5.1 88 27
2006 Seattle Seahawks 10 10 252 896 3.6 33 7
Point taken. Even so, the overall production was decent, but not spectacular, before 2004. Two excellent seasons does not really make someone a HOFer in most cases.
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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I guess we'll just have to see how he does in 2007 and 2008.
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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If Tiki doesn't get in, then Alexander sure as heck shouldn't. At no point in Alexander's career was his peak more dominant than Tikis.

I think Tiki is borderline, but I don't see it with Alexander. This isn't the PB, this is the Hall. They don't just let all the PBers in.

The only surefire HOFer I see from the current RB bunch playing today is LDT. Thats it. And with more RBBC, you'll probably see a dropoff in the # of eligible RBs the next 5 or so years.
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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I guess we'll just have to see how he does in 2007 and 2008.
Agreed. He is on his way and has a nice base to work with, but I want to see him rebound and get back to the 1500/20 level before I put him in the Hall.
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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Shaun Alexander can't even be kept on the field in a lot situations because he is extremely limited in some of the finer underappreciated nuances of RB.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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Jug, that may be true, but HOF voters really don't look at that or even remember. Players get into the HOF based on numbers, reputation, and those numbers and reputation compared to others in their era. No significant number of voters will take this into account when voting on the HOF.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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I never said Alexander was unproductive. He has had several other injuries in his career besides the problems of 2006. His overall numbers are not incredibly consistent. If he goes and reels off 3 straight solid, pro bowl-type years, I will be convinced. He has had 2 dominant years, but he needs to show he is more than that before I will readily put him in as a likely HOF-er.

...so 5 straight years of 14+ TD's isn't consistent? 3 straight of 1400+ yards? LT can't say either of those yet, as his best is 3 straight of 14+ TD's and 2 straight 1400+ yards. Also, Alexander has only one year under 4 YPC, while LT has two.

LT is better than Alexander, but until this years injury, Alexander has been *very* consistent.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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Alexander's yardage totals and TD's were consistent, but not consistently excellent. With LT, you have to also include his impact as a receiver out of the backfield. His total yards and YPC have been consistently higher, which is why he is widely considered a superior player. I'm not saying that Alexander is a bad player or is one who won't make the Hall. I'm just saying he can't be called a lock right now.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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If Tiki doesn't get in, then Alexander sure as heck shouldn't. At no point in Alexander's career was his peak more dominant than Tikis.

I think Tiki is borderline, but I don't see it with Alexander. This isn't the PB, this is the Hall. They don't just let all the PBers in.

The only surefire HOFer I see from the current RB bunch playing today is LDT. Thats it. And with more RBBC, you'll probably see a dropoff in the # of eligible RBs the next 5 or so years.
The thing with Alexander is, he already has 107 total touchdowns, and 96 rushing touchdowns. Let's say he puts up 3 more years of a mediocre 10 rushing td's. That would put him in second all time for rushing TD's. If he also gets around 1200 yards per year for 3 more years, he'll be over 12 500 rushing yards. He's definitely not a lock, and not really that close, but he could be considered borderline if he puts up his old average of 1400 and 14 for two more years, and then puts up a mediocre 1200 and 10 for one year.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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The one thing about Alexander is that he just has that unbelievable nose for the end zone. Inside the 5 yard line he is probably the best in the NFL. More so than LT.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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His total yards and YPC have been consistently higher, which is why he is widely considered a superior player.

Now that's simply not true.

2001

tomlinson - 1603 total yards / 3.6 ypc / 10 TD's

Alexander - 1661 / 4.3 ypc / 16 TD's

2002

Tomlinson - 2172 / 4.5 / 16

Alexander - 1635 / 4 / 17

2003

Tomlinson - 2370 / 5.3 / 18

Alexander - 1730 / 4.4 / 17

2004

Tomlinson - 1776 / 3.9 / 20

Alexander - 1886 / 4.8 / 20

2005

Tomlinson - 1832 / 4.3 / 22

Alexander - 1958 / 5.1 / 28

Now, I'm not arguing that Alexander is better than LT, but *statistically*, LT and Alexander have been splitting years... with 2001, 2004, and 2005 going to Alexander, and 2002 and 2003 going to LT.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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I have to say that I expected more resistance from you guys about the content of my HOF list. Is it possible that I just nailed the list in most cases?
I'll take a bite, just for the hell of it.

I think that Warren Sapp is more of a lock to make it into the Hall than Derrick Brooks. Brooks was the face of Tampa Bay's Superbowl team, but a lot of people really forget how absolutely dominant Sapp was in his prime. He was much, much more unique as a player.

I also don't think that Zach Thomas is going to sniff the Hall of Fame, simply because of the number of linebackers who are all borderline Hall worthy. If a guy like Randy Gradishar (an absolute tackling machine) hasn't made it yet, I don't see how Thomas will.

If Mike Vick can string together a few seasons of above average passing, I think he'll definitely be in serious Hall of Fame talks one day. People aren't going to look at him and vote on him as a quarterback, per se. Once his career's over, I think his total yards and touchdown numbers are going to be staggering. Plus, he's a revolutionary type of player.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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The one thing about Alexander is that he just has that unbelievable nose for the end zone. Inside the 5 yard line he is probably the best in the NFL. More so than LT.

Which I'm suggesting gives him more of a chance of getting in than most people are willing to give him. 2nd all time in rushing touchdowns is a pretty big feat, especially since he'll have a pretty solid rushing yardage total, as well. He is by no means a lock, or even more than 50/50 at getting in, but I say he has a shot, especially if he manages to put up another big year or two.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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If Tiki doesn't get in, then Alexander sure as heck shouldn't. At no point in Alexander's career was his peak more dominant than Tikis.

I think Tiki is borderline, but I don't see it with Alexander. This isn't the PB, this is the Hall. They don't just let all the PBers in.

The only surefire HOFer I see from the current RB bunch playing today is LDT. Thats it. And with more RBBC, you'll probably see a dropoff in the # of eligible RBs the next 5 or so years.
Alexander has alot more TD's than Tiki, and he has an MVP. He has a better chance at getting into the Hall of Fame than Tiki if he has two or three more seasons of rushing for 1,000 yards. And I still give Tiki a better than 50/50 chance at getting in.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner View Post
If Mike Vick can string together a few seasons of above average passing, I think he'll definitely be in serious Hall of Fame talks one day. People aren't going to look at him and vote on him as a quarterback, per se. Once his career's over, I think his total yards and touchdown numbers are going to be staggering. Plus, he's a revolutionary type of player.
I think Mike Vick needs to string together one great season before we even talk about him as a top 10 QB in the game today. He is so far away from the Hall discussion right now, it's not even funny. He is an amazing athletic talent, but he hasn't put the numbers up there when it matters. It's not all his fault, but his being in the Hall will depend on actual numbers. His numbers right now are absolute crap.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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Now that's simply not true.

...

Now, I'm not arguing that Alexander is better than LT, but *statistically*, LT and Alexander have been splitting years... with 2001, 2004, and 2005 going to Alexander, and 2002 and 2003 going to LT.
I think you have to consider that Alexander had Hutchinson and Jones to run behind, plus a very competent QB in Hasselbeck. For 2002 and 2003, what the heck did LT have in the form of an OLine, coaches, or QB play? Nothing. He put those numbers up in the tougher AFC in the very tough AFC West against 8 and 9 man fronts. LT is a better all around back than Alexander. It's just fact.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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Alexander has alot more TD's than Tiki, and he has an MVP. He has a better chance at getting into the Hall of Fame than Tiki if he has two or three more seasons of rushing for 1,000 yards. And I still give Tiki a better than 50/50 chance at getting in.
I don't think Tiki is Hall worthy right now. If he had stayed and played 2 more seasons at a high level, he'd be closer to a lock. By leaving with years of his prime still to go, he does not promote goodwill with the voters, and it affects his overall numbers.
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