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Old 12-10-2012, 09:17 AM    (permalink
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WIth their season over, they'll be focusing on getting him that record. I think he'll do it
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by stlouisfan37 View Post
I think something to consider that hasn't yet been brought up is that Rice played in the WCO during its earlier years when defenses still hadn't figured it out. There weren't that many teams running it until he was well into his career. Teams couldn't very well build to defend it because hardly anyone ran it.
There was nothing to defend - the 49ers ran a very basic scheme during Rice's prime years. They ran nearly everything out of the same formation - pro set. They weren't going to baffle your defense with BS like Mike Martz. They came straight at you, no tricks...unless you count end-arounds/reverses.

The complexity was with the QB progressions, but that had nothing to do with Rice and had nothing to do with defending it. It just made it easier for the QB once he learned the set order of progressions...and learning it was the hard part.

It wasn't until Mike Shanahan arrived in 1992 that they really began to add any wrinkles.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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The thing Rice did benefit from is he rarely had to go against opponents' top corners, since the 49ers primarily used John Taylor at split end. Most of the top corners in those days were RCBs, who were consistently lined up against the SE.

Deion, for instance, being a RCB, lined up against John Taylor 95% of the time. The 49ers kept Rice away from Deion as much as they could, going against scrubs like Charles Dimry and a washed up Tim McKyer. The one exception to this was in the 49ers @ Falcons game in 1993, when the Falcons let Deion stray from the normal coverage responsibilities and follow Rice to either side of the formation. Rice caught a few passes on him in that game, but Deion was suffering from the stomach flu that week and even had to go into the locker room early for treatment, so it's not really a fair analysis. Plus, one of the passes Rice caught against Deion in that game was a deep ball in which Deion was smothering him and Young threaded the needle.

So while Taylor was facing the likes of Deion, Eric Allen, Terry McDaniel, Dale Carter, Cris Dishman, and Nate Odomes, Rice was going against a 33-year-old Lionel Washington, Dimry, McKyer, Richard Johnson, and Robert Massey.

When Rice did face a top corner, he often struggled mightily, such as in his games against Mark Collins with the Giants.

He was able to use his height advantage to shield Darrell Green from the ball and produce a little against him, but he could never separate from him down the field.

He never did dick against Rod Woodson.

He did burn Jerry Gray, but Gray was a better hitter than cover guy, anyway.

The best corner Rice really did anything against was Ricky Reynolds.

That's my only criticism of Rice. One-on-one, he wasn't a guy who put the fear of God into a top level corner like, say, Randy Moss or Calvin Johnson. He was the greatest runner after the catch in NFL history, and he ate safeties alive on deep posts, but a good cover guy could do a good job on him one-on-one. The advantage Rice had was a coaching staff that wanted to create mismatches and knew how to do it. Rice played his fair share of split end, but when you see him producing from that spot, it's usually because he was going against a lesser CB on that particular play.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BloodBrother View Post
WIth their season over, they'll be focusing on getting him that record. I think he'll do it
That's what I'm guessing.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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calvin and peterson are my two favorite offensive prospects ever (doesnt hurt i drafted them in keeper leagues as rookies) but i would love to see them both break records this year. hard not to admire players so dominant that play so fired up all the time

i think the lions do what the titans did and get him the record
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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Calvin needs 182 yards over the next two games to break the record. The Lions play the Falcons this week and then the Bears next week, both at home. The Falcons have the 17th ranked pass defense and the Bears have the 6th. For what it's worth, he had a season low 34 yards against the Bears in week 7 at Soldier Field.
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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Calvin needs 182 yards over the next two games to break the record. The Lions play the Falcons this week and then the Bears next week, both at home. The Falcons have the 17th ranked pass defense and the Bears have the 6th. For what it's worth, he had a season low 34 yards against the Bears in week 7 at Soldier Field.
The Bears D doesn't seem to be quite the same as it was in week 7. I think he'll get it.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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The thing Rice did benefit from is he rarely had to go against opponents' top corners, since the 49ers primarily used John Taylor at split end. Most of the top corners in those days were RCBs, who were consistently lined up against the SE.

Deion, for instance, being a RCB, lined up against John Taylor 95% of the time. The 49ers kept Rice away from Deion as much as they could, going against scrubs like Charles Dimry and a washed up Tim McKyer. The one exception to this was in the 49ers @ Falcons game in 1993, when the Falcons let Deion stray from the normal coverage responsibilities and follow Rice to either side of the formation. Rice caught a few passes on him in that game, but Deion was suffering from the stomach flu that week and even had to go into the locker room early for treatment, so it's not really a fair analysis. Plus, one of the passes Rice caught against Deion in that game was a deep ball in which Deion was smothering him and Young threaded the needle.

So while Taylor was facing the likes of Deion, Eric Allen, Terry McDaniel, Dale Carter, Cris Dishman, and Nate Odomes, Rice was going against a 33-year-old Lionel Washington, Dimry, McKyer, Richard Johnson, and Robert Massey.

When Rice did face a top corner, he often struggled mightily, such as in his games against Mark Collins with the Giants.

He was able to use his height advantage to shield Darrell Green from the ball and produce a little against him, but he could never separate from him down the field.

He never did dick against Rod Woodson.

He did burn Jerry Gray, but Gray was a better hitter than cover guy, anyway.

The best corner Rice really did anything against was Ricky Reynolds.

That's my only criticism of Rice. One-on-one, he wasn't a guy who put the fear of God into a top level corner like, say, Randy Moss or Calvin Johnson. He was the greatest runner after the catch in NFL history, and he ate safeties alive on deep posts, but a good cover guy could do a good job on him one-on-one. The advantage Rice had was a coaching staff that wanted to create mismatches and knew how to do it. Rice played his fair share of split end, but when you see him producing from that spot, it's usually because he was going against a lesser CB on that particular play.
You have to cite more than your opinion before you say Rice didn't go up against team's top corners. Rice played in an era where many team's top corners would flip to cover the best WR for the opposing team.
I know Darrell Green always did this.

Mark Collins was not a top corner in the NFL when he played.

How many times did Rice even play against the Steelers??

No cover corner ever did a 'good job' against Rice. Not consistently.

It's really tiring to every once in a while read another post arguing that Jerry Rice is overrated, or was somehow a stat compiler.

Bill Walsh flipped Rice from either side of the formation in any game, so it's dishonest to say he NEVER went against top corners.

I would bet any corner who had to cover Rice one on one, if you asked them, would tell you Rice was the best route runner in the game and never tipped a route EVER, and that he was one of the most difficult, if not the hardest NFL WR to shadow in single coverage for 4 quarters.

What's with all this revisionist history regarding Rice??

One guy said he had the worst hands in the game, now you say he only played #2 corners and never produced against elite defensive backs.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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Rice still was going up against good competition and it's not like every game a team's top corner wasn't on Rice at times and Rice didn't make his fair share of big plays when he was shadowed by whomever. There is a reason he's considered the greatest of all time.
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Last edited by Ness : 12-17-2012 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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The records cannot even be compared, the rule changes have made passing the ball far easier than in Rice's era, any passing records set by modern players cannot be compared to previous generations at any position but especially at the WR and QB positions.
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