NBA Discussion Thread - Page 3119

bigbluedefense · 12-21-2012, 07:56 AM

Bc Harden is a chucker who took shots away from Durant.

It's no surprise that Durant is having his best season yet since Harden left. Now they have to get rid of Westbrook for CP3 and they'll be set.

LonghornsLegend · 12-21-2012, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboy

why the thunder didn't extend harden and dump perk for a bag of cheez-its, I'll never know

I don't think Perkins had anything to do with Harden. It was Harden and Ibaka as the two guys to make a decision on. I don't even think the Thunder needed Harden, just probably should have gotten more. But it's obvious they don't miss him, and if they finish the season better, + those picks they came away on top.

Rob S · 12-21-2012, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Bc Harden is a chucker who took shots away from Durant.

It's no surprise that Durant is having his best season yet since Harden left. Now they have to get rid of Westbrook for CP3 and they'll be set.

Harden was the most efficient player in the league last year, so there's that.

This calls for my new meme.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

I don't think Perkins had anything to do with Harden. It was Harden and Ibaka as the two guys to make a decision on. I don't even think the Thunder needed Harden, just probably should have gotten more. But it's obvious they don't miss him, and if they finish the season better, + those picks they came away on top.

Perkins has everything to do with Harden....they could've pretty much avoided the luxury tax completely if they amnestied Perk and signed Harden. They will miss Harden massively come playoffs.

LonghornsLegend · 12-21-2012, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob S

Perkins has everything to do with Harden....they could've pretty much avoided the luxury tax completely if they amnestied Perk and signed Harden. They will miss Harden massively come playoffs.

Locking up KD, Westbrook, Harden, & Ibaka would have hamstrung that team and eventually made depth an issue for them which is a strong point of the team. How many teams can afford to lock up 4 players like that forever?

Rob S · 12-21-2012, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

Locking up KD, Westbrook, Harden, & Ibaka would have hamstrung that team and eventually made depth an issue for them which is a strong point of the team. How many teams can afford to lock up 4 players like that forever?

Exactly why you have to do it. You've made my point for me.

scottyboy · 12-21-2012, 08:52 AM

yeah, role players will flock there and take league min and whatnot. that's a ridiculous core there they could've kept

LonghornsLegend · 12-21-2012, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob S

Exactly why you have to do it. You've made my point for me.

What point was that? And you think they could afford all those contracts? I know Miami has the big 3 but who is is a huge contract on that team outside of them? Who can they afford to bring in who has a big contract? It's not like Ibaka will be playing for the veterans minimum. He's 23 years old and has already consistently been the league leader in blocks.

Westbrook's deal spikes upwards towards 15 million a year shortly, and Durant will reach 20 million. Then your looking at signing Harden to a max deal on top of that, and sure, while we are at it let's just sign Ibaka to a max deal too.

Can you break down how they would feasably be able to sign all 4 of those guys and field a team around on top of it?

MetSox17 · 12-21-2012, 09:32 AM

Mayo >> Harden

yo123 · 12-21-2012, 09:41 AM

Maybe if Mayo continues to shoot 52% from 3 forever....but he's not going to do that.

Harden is way better than he is.

Paul · 12-21-2012, 09:52 AM

I love Mayo (and I love him as much as a heterosexual can love another heterosexual man), he can be a perinatal all-star and in a close game I trust him with the ball in his hands. But can you build a contender around him? Not sure. He's a good #1 scoring option but I think he'll be a GREAT #2 scoring option. He's kept us afloat thus far, but we're still under .500.

MetSox17 · 12-21-2012, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yo123

Maybe if Mayo continues to shoot 52% from 3 forever....but he's not going to do that.

Harden is way better than he is.

Their play is interchangeable for me. Mayo is a more skilled offensive player, while Harden depends a whole lot more on whistles and getting to the paint. In a tightly called game, Harden turns into a tunnel vision chucker. Plus he makes 15 million more than Mayo does.

Both guys are better served being #2 options.

Rob S · 12-21-2012, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

What point was that? And you think they could afford all those contracts? I know Miami has the big 3 but who is is a huge contract on that team outside of them? Who can they afford to bring in who has a big contract? It's not like Ibaka will be playing for the veterans minimum. He's 23 years old and has already consistently been the league leader in blocks.

Westbrook's deal spikes upwards towards 15 million a year shortly, and Durant will reach 20 million. Then your looking at signing Harden to a max deal on top of that, and sure, while we are at it let's just sign Ibaka to a max deal too.

Can you break down how they would feasably be able to sign all 4 of those guys and field a team around on top of it?

Ibaka already signed his extension for 12.5 per through 2017....

Rob S · 12-21-2012, 10:52 AM

Harden is so much better than Mayo and it's not close. I don't get you guys sometimes.

MetSox17 · 12-21-2012, 11:04 AM

I'll take Mayo at $4M and use the rest of my money to build a better team than give Harden $18M and have a **** team around him.

And Mayo is having BY FAR a better year than Harden is.

Mayo: 20ppg, 4 rpg, 4 apg, 47%/50%/87%

Harden: 25ppg, 4rpg, 5apg, 43%/34%/86%

You can even argue that Harden has a better team around him than the current lineup the Mavs are throwing out right now. His shooting splits are terrible, and he has 15 more turnovers than Mayo does. It's not even close this year.

Rob S · 12-21-2012, 11:07 AM

Yeah, but Harden can, you know, actually sustain/will almost certainly improve on those numbers. You actually think Mayo, a career 39% shooter from 3, is going to keep this up? GL with that, he's gonna crash hard. His year so far is a massive, massive outlier.

Not saying he's a bad player (he's a good player) and he is obviously a monster steal at his current salary. He's gonna get a lot more next year though and Harden is going to be a borderline superstar.

It's just not close.

EDIT: Also, the % numbers don't impress me. As I mentioned, Mayo will fall back to earth and Harden's FT will stay consistent. As it is, they are very close in TS% and I will bet you Harden finishes ahead of him in that category.

MetSox17 · 12-21-2012, 11:11 AM

You can keep your hopes and dreams, i'll take the guy right now who's currently out classing the other in every facet of the game.

Rob S · 12-21-2012, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetSox17

You can keep your hopes and dreams, i'll take the guy right now who's currently out classing the other in every facet of the game.

He's really not though. If you watch them play it's obvious Harden has the traits to be a superstar and Mayo doesn't. Mayo is a good player who got scorching hot from 3. That's about it.

LonghornsLegend · 12-21-2012, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob S

Ibaka already signed his extension for 12.5 per through 2017....

From what I've read OKC is already over the cap and barely under the luxury cap: http://www.hoopsworld.com/oklahoma-c...r-team-salary/

So I'd still like to hear how you can factor in a longterm max contract of Harden into this cap space and make it work. You can't just say "well they shoulda paid him" if your not going to take into consideration how much money they would have left to sign anybody else.

MetSox17 · 12-21-2012, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob S

He's really not though. If you watch them play it's obvious Harden has the traits to be a superstar and Mayo doesn't. Mayo is a good player who got scorching hot from 3. That's about it.

Lol we're not discussing traits or projecting superstardom. Mayo is playing better basketball right now, and that's all i'm discussing. Mayo is the better basketball player right now. If you want to reply with anything other than "i think Harden is better", go right ahead. Every stat imaginable says otherwise.

dabears10 · 12-21-2012, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetSox17

Lol we're not discussing traits or projecting superstardom. Mayo is playing better basketball right now, and that's all i'm discussing. Mayo is the better basketball player right now. If you want to reply with anything other than "i think Harden is better", go right ahead. Every stat imaginable says otherwise.

Except in PER.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holli.../_/position/sg

bigbluedefense · 12-21-2012, 11:28 AM

I'm debating whether I should take a break from my trollasaurus ways in here and just post like a normal basketball fan.

#KnicksIn2013?

Rob S · 12-21-2012, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

From what I've read OKC is already over the cap and barely under the luxury cap: http://www.hoopsworld.com/oklahoma-c...r-team-salary/

So I'd still like to hear how you can factor in a longterm max contract of Harden into this cap space and make it work. You can't just say "well they shoulda paid him" if your not going to take into consideration how much money they would have left to sign anybody else.

I really don't care about not signing anyone else considering you can lock up those 4 for the next 5 years. I just don't. Vet mins will flock, rookies, etc....it's not that hard. If they amnestied Perkins and signed Harden, they would have to pay a small luxury tax which they could easily afford due to a number of factors that were written about ad nauseum.

MetSox17 · 12-21-2012, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dabears10

Except in PER.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holli.../_/position/sg

Harden has a much higher usage rate and more FGAs.

Quote:

"Hollinger argues that each two point field goal made is worth about 1.65 points. A three point field goal made is worth 2.65 points. A missed field goal, though, costs a team 0.72 points. Given these values, with a bit of math we can show that a player will break even on his two point field goal attempts if he hits on 30.4% of these shots. On three pointers the break-even point is 21.4%. If a player exceeds these thresholds, and virtually every NBA player does so with respect to two-point shots, the more he shoots the higher his value in PERs. So a player can be an inefficient scorer and simply inflate his value by taking a large number of shots."

Rob S · 12-21-2012, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetSox17

Lol we're not discussing traits or projecting superstardom. Mayo is playing better basketball right now, and that's all i'm discussing. Mayo is the better basketball player right now. If you want to reply with anything other than "i think Harden is better", go right ahead. Every stat imaginable says otherwise.

Except PER, Wins Added and Value added. And turnover rate and assist rate. And offensive rebounding and a higher usage rate. But, sure, just know that the "right now" discussion is pointless and lends itself to statistical anomalies like David Lee playing better than LaMarcus Aldridge right now.

ATLDirtyBirds · 12-21-2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I'm debating whether I should take a break from my trollasaurus ways in here and just post like a normal basketball fan.

#KnicksIn2013?

Never.

Knicks. (10 char)