Poll: Rookie of the Year (week 16) - Page 5

FUNBUNCHER · 12-21-2012, 10:40 AM

Luck is a great talent. Luck will probably be a great pro QB for years to come.
Luck IMO isn't having a OROTY season.

If standard of play is being set by the other contenders for the award, I don't see how Luck's season can be seen in any way superlative to what Russell Wilson or RGIII have done.

My main argument against Luck has always been his turnovers. Maybe the Seahawks could still manage to outplay 18 INTs and 9 fumbles by their QB. I know the Skins couldn't.
The fact that the Colts have won 9 games in spite of those turnovers speaks to Luck's talents and the Colts relatively weak strength of schedule.

I don't think Luck should win it, but I'm not cutting off a finger if he does.

Trogdor · 12-21-2012, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9

well, i've seen the light. because of the endless horse-beating, it's clear to me that rg3 is literally the greatest qb in nfl history and andrew luck should probably be cut tomorrow. i'm not really even sure how luck made an nfl roster. i mean, he's actually worse than a hypothetical qb with blaine gabbert's courage, patrick ramsey's accuracy, ken dorsey's arm strength and jamarcus russell's intelligence. he's just lucky that the rest of his team is completely responsible for bailing him out on every throw and in every game, or the colts would probably be winless. if only rg3 had as much talent surrounding him... and that's not even talking about how much better the colts coaching staff is.

but really, how anyone can think andrew luck is playing any better than a random fan the colts might pull out of the stands is beyond me. he's the physical incarnation of terrible qb play.

Damnit. Jsagan managed to get into njx's account. I don't think I can handle two of him.

jsagan77 · 12-21-2012, 11:35 AM

I have a question, who is having a better season Big Ben or Matt Stafford? Schaub or Eli Manning?

jsagan77 · 12-21-2012, 11:37 AM

And another, what would Griff or Wilson have to do to have a better season than Luck?

jsagan77 · 12-21-2012, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damix

Can't really say should have lost to RGIII since it was the Redskins defense that beat us the 2nd time. I wasn't impressed with him nearly as much the 2nd game, though I'll give him points for poise.

And the Redskins lost the first game, there is no should of.

Griffin can't cover Cruz on a fly route with 130 to go. Plus he was picking you guys apart, taking us to mid field when Moss fumbled. What more could have he done to 'impress you' that game?

The second game had huge implications and was a tough fought battle. I don't think our D did much in that game, it was more on Eli. He missed w/o WR's regularly and turned the ball over in the redzone twice. If he could fix his consistency he'd be so awesome. He was putting the ball in some sick spots half the time and then erratic the next. That has to be extremely frustrating as a fan. How is he so good in the 4th quarter and big game situations but so off the rest of the time?

Halsey · 12-21-2012, 01:36 PM

You can't convince me Luck is out of the OROTY running when the Colts could potentially win 11 games.

jsagan77 · 12-21-2012, 02:40 PM

Luck leads the NFL in turnovers and has had another 9 ints dropped. But what I've learned is that he has done it all on his lonesome. He never benefits from his teammates whatsoever, he's made his recievers what they are and he never throws dump offs or has players get YAC. I'm honestly suprised he doesn't lead the league in rushing and recieving the way people talk about him.

He has a whopping ONE win against a team with a winning record and has had to pull 5 games out of his hind quarters (mainly because he's been inconsistent. Of course it was all him that did it, he had no help. He has the juggernaut Chiefs this week and a Texans team that may not have anything to play for but yeah let's not add that context, right? We should only apply context when it seems to benefit Luck.

Jvig43 · 12-21-2012, 02:59 PM

And not apply it when arguing against him.

21ST · 12-21-2012, 06:03 PM

Damn Alfred Morris is gonna break the redskins single season rushing record if he can get 194 more yards

jsagan77 · 12-21-2012, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 21ST

Damn Alfred Morris is gonna break the redskins single season rushing record if he can get 194 more yards

It was also quite telling how Much RG3 has done for Morris. It's no coincidence that he looked relatively average against the Browns and our OL as well. The offensive units have all benefitted immensely from RG3. It wasn't a mistake that we used the boot leg so often in that game either.

jsagan77 · 12-21-2012, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

And not apply it when arguing against him.

Yep, we've all heard the context, rg3 throws nothing but bubble screens, has all pro's at every position, can't read defenses, can't push the ball down the field, etc. That's not context, it's ridiculous.

njx9 · 12-21-2012, 06:31 PM

alfred morris would probably be just another no name scrub without rg3. just think about how bad barry sanders was without scott mitchell. or how much better clinton portis was after he finally got away from mike shanahan's terrible offense.

FUNBUNCHER · 12-21-2012, 07:17 PM

Yeah because SHanny has had multiple 1000+ yard rushers in D.C before this season.
RGIII has nothing at all to do with running lanes opening up on zone reads for Morris.

jsagan77 · 12-21-2012, 07:17 PM

It's hilarious how our OL goes from all scrub team with Grossman to all world in one season with two UDFA's starting and a street FA coming off major knee surgery. And funny how all of a sudden we have guys playing at Pro Bowl levels that were border line busts last year. The samething happen in Washington that you've seen in NE, Indy, etc over the years. One player elevating the play of those around him. And don't get me wrong these guys aren't scrubs by any means, but they're playing well above expectation and Griff is a huge part of that.

njx9 · 12-21-2012, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Yeah because SHanny has had multiple 1000+ yard rushers in D.C before this season.
RGIII has nothing at all to do with running lanes opening up on zone reads for Morris.

right! i mean, torain only ran for 740 yards in 8 games after he was the starter in 2010. and helu was trash in the 5 games he started last year. only 100 yards in four out of the five games he was actually the feature back? ugh. alfred morris is so much worse than either of them, it's incredible that he's gained any yards at all. if it weren't for rg3, he'd probably have been benched for evan royster long since.

21ST · 12-21-2012, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsagan77

It was also quite telling how Much RG3 has done for Morris. It's no coincidence that he looked relatively average against the Browns and our OL as well. The offensive units have all benefitted immensely from RG3. It wasn't a mistake that we used the boot leg so often in that game either.

Or the browns could just have a pretty good defense?

SeanTaylorRIP · 12-21-2012, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsagan77

It was also quite telling how Much RG3 has done for Morris. It's no coincidence that he looked relatively average against the Browns and our OL as well. The offensive units have all benefitted immensely from RG3. It wasn't a mistake that we used the boot leg so often in that game either.

27 carries, 87 yards, 2 TD's is not bad against a fairly stout Browns run D who was stacking the box and daring Cousins to throw.

FUNBUNCHER · 12-21-2012, 09:21 PM

I don't know why it's so hard to comprehend that a mobile QB who threatens defenses off the edge is going to impact his team's running game because he forces LBs to hesitate on run plays and decide whether to key the RB or the QB.

BTW if Torain rushing for 740 yds in 2010 and Helu rushing for 640 in 2011 represents a competent running game, by that standard the 2012 Colts have a dominant running game too.

jsagan77 · 12-21-2012, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

I don't know why it's so hard to comprehend that a mobile QB who threatens defenses off the edge is going to impact his team's running game because he forces LBs to hesitate on run plays and decide whether to key the RB or the QB.

BTW if Torain rushing for 740 yds in 2010 and Helu rushing for 640 in 2011 represents a competent running game, by that standard the 2012 Colts have a dominant running game too.

Oh no you dit-nt!

Caulibflower · 12-21-2012, 11:51 PM

I think if it ended today, it would be RGIII. Barely. The end of the season is going to determine who it goes to. If Russell Wilson has any chance to get it, the Seahawks must not only win against the 49ers, but they must win because of Russell Wilson. Russell Wilson is getting the biggest stage of the year on Sunday to make his case, and if he has another big game he's going to have an awful lot of momentum. That said, he still might not get it as long as RGIII stays strong and the Redskins make the playoffs, too; if it's a draw through these final two weeks, RGIII's body of work over the entire season should earn him the award.

I think Luck's been fantastic as well, and 3 or 4 weeks ago it was pretty even between him and Griffin. But he's fallen behind while Russell Wilson has surged, and I think Russell Wilson might even have a slight edge on him right now. I think if Russell Wilson wins his next two games and Washington loses, the award could be his. If the OROY award is like a playoff race, I'd say RGIII controls his destiny while Russell Wilson and Luck are still in the hunt, but my feeling is that if it goes to someone other than RGIII it's going to be Russell Wilson.

jsagan77 · 12-22-2012, 01:32 AM

I'm honestly shocked but in agreement and I would + Rep you if I could.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caulibflower

I think if it ended today, it would be RGIII. Barely. The end of the season is going to determine who it goes to. If Russell Wilson has any chance to get it, the Seahawks must not only win against the 49ers, but they must win because of Russell Wilson. Russell Wilson is getting the biggest stage of the year on Sunday to make his case, and if he has another big game he's going to have an awful lot of momentum. That said, he still might not get it as long as RGIII stays strong and the Redskins make the playoffs, too; if it's a draw through these final two weeks, RGIII's body of work over the entire season should earn him the award.

I think Luck's been fantastic as well, and 3 or 4 weeks ago it was pretty even between him and Griffin. But he's fallen behind while Russell Wilson has surged, and I think Russell Wilson might even have a slight edge on him right now. I think if Russell Wilson wins his next two games and Washington loses, the award could be his. If the OROY award is like a playoff race, I'd say RGIII controls his destiny while Russell Wilson and Luck are still in the hunt, but my feeling is that if it goes to someone other than RGIII it's going to be Russell Wilson.

LonghornsLegend · 12-22-2012, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsagan77

I'm honestly shocked but in agreement and I would + Rep you if I could.

Your shocked that you agree with someone that thinks RGIII will win RoY?

Also, depending on what Russell Wilson does against SF it could have a big bearing in this race.

jsagan77 · 12-22-2012, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

Your shocked that you agree with someone that thinks RGIII will win RoY?

Also, depending on what Russell Wilson does against SF it could have a big bearing in this race.

No, i'm shocked his tune has changed despite Luck doing over the last few weeks what he's been doing all season.

And I agree Wilson is Much closer to RG3 than Luck.

AntoinCD · 12-22-2012, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

I don't know why it's so hard to comprehend that a mobile QB who threatens defenses off the edge is going to impact his team's running game because he forces LBs to hesitate on run plays and decide whether to key the RB or the QB.

BTW if Torain rushing for 740 yds in 2010 and Helu rushing for 640 in 2011 represents a competent running game, by that standard the 2012 Colts have a dominant running game too.

Come on now that is a ridiculous argument

Torain rushed for 740 but only started 8 games and only played in 10 total. He had 164 carries. Even 250 carries puts him way over 1000

Likewise Helu had 640 off 151 carries. 250 carries puts him over 1000 for the season too.

Morris already has 280 carries. His average is only slightly better than Torain's was. Griffin helps the running game but let's not act like it's only good because of him. Shanahan has always had productive HBs and seldom have any been bonafide stars before they came to his system. RG3 doesn't make Morris successful, that would be the system, just as it was for Slaton and Gary and Bell and Anderson etc

tmljeh19 · 12-22-2012, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halsey

Wins matter. If Luck's INT's were all that big a deal, why have they won 9 games? Because of that stout defense?

No because they have a garbage schedule. One win over a team with a winning record. When they do play someone decent they get smoked.