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View Poll Results: Who gets your vote for Rookie of the Year right now?
Robert Griffin 55 37.93%
Andrew Luck 56 38.62%
Russell Wilson 34 23.45%
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Old 12-22-2012, 08:51 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Torain is injury prone. He had a career flourish in 2010 but I still don't believe the SKins have the kind of Oline even coached under Mike SHanahan that's going to spring a RB for 1K+ yards. Helu and Torain had many games where they were flat out stonewalled.

Running the zone read out of the pistol has had a major impact on the Skins rushing totals, mainly because the QB is viewed by most opponents as a devastating runner in his own right.

It's just disingenuous to suggest the Skins have the #1 rushing attack in the NFL and not take into account the impact RGIII's presence in the backfield has had on the SKins running game.

Njx9 talks as if the SKins have always had a dominant run game under Shanny and that's simply not true.

Our oline hasn't significantly upgraded from 2010. Robert Morris is still probably at best a 4.6 RB and is never going to break out for a 60+ yard TD.
However all the parts mesh because of RG3, his Houdini play fakes, and his ability to keep the ball himself and run to daylight.

Shanny isn't running his textbook ZBS/WCO, in part because the talent up front in the trenches just isn't there. In the NFCE to run the ZBS effectively you need athletic, mobile Olineman AND guys who can anchor against the pass rush. He doesn't have that yet.

BTW, RG3 IS the system in D.C. If Cousins were the regular starter, it would be much easier to defend the SKins on run downs. Defenders wouldn't be responsible for strict backside contain because the QB might keep the ball and peel around for a 40 yard keeper.

RG3 impacts everything the Skins do on offense, including the running game.
His value to the Skins offense can't be overstated.

Remember Morris is on track to rush for 1500 yards as a rookie. Much of that is talent. Some of that is scheme, but the scheme itself totally revolves around and has been modified to perfectly fit RG3's talents as a football player and QB.
I'm not denying that RG3 positively affects the run game, but it's not a good argument to make to say he is the reason why the Skins are running so well, when even the last few years they have had a good running game. Griffin has made them a great running game however some of the talk in this thread is as though the Redskins the last few years have been the worst rushing team in the league which isn't true.
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Old 12-22-2012, 08:55 AM    (permalink
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I don't know the stats but the Skins haven't been able to run the ball like this since they had OT Chris Samuels and Clinton Portis.

Besides you're killing my argument that RG3 is a messianic type figure who's elevating the play of the entire franchise, including special teams!!

(Only slightly sarcastic.)

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Old 12-22-2012, 09:10 AM    (permalink
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And again I say to you the lack of a quality opponent.
Like the division leading green bay packers?
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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One win over a team with a winning record.
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He has a whopping ONE win against a team with a winning record
The Colts have beaten both the Vikings (8-6) & Packers (10-4), and I can assure you that Luck played in both games to their completion.
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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Like the division leading green bay packers?
EXACTLY! That was their only win over an opponent with a winning record. Thanks for proving my point bro!
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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EXACTLY! That was their only win over an opponent with a winning record. Thanks for proving my point bro!
Except it's not. But don't let facts get in the way of your agenda.
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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oh ******* stop it. the HEAVY implication throughout every part of this thread by one person is that luck is terrible. but it's cool. you're just another sockpuppet, so i shouldn't be surprised you didn't notice.
I never said that so feel free to keep ranting about pointless ********. Meanwhile no one EVER said Luck sucks. Please point out where anyone has. Ill wait....
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Except it's not. But don't let facts get in the way of your agenda.
SOOOOOO by beating the Packers which was the only team with a winning record you didnt prove my point? Ok guy, whatever you say!
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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The Colts have beaten both the Vikings (8-6) & Packers (10-4), and I can assure you that Luck played in both games to their completion.
Yes they played the 1-0 Vikings coming off the Vikings win over the powerhouse know as the Jaguars.
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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BTW if Torain rushing for 740 yds in 2010 and Helu rushing for 640 in 2011 represents a competent running game, by that standard the 2012 Colts have a dominant running game too.
This is a ban-worthy argument. But then this is typical of RG3 nuthuggers in this thread. Use stats when it's convenient and then criticize their use when it hurts your agenda. Hold context and "actually watching the games" when it props up RG3, but demand objective stats and ignore context when it helps Luck. Use terrible arguments, then ignore it when people call you out on it. I don't know why anyone with an ounce of rational thought is even bothering to respond to you trolls anymore.
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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SOOOOOO by beating the Packers which was the only team with a winning record you didnt prove my point? Ok guy, whatever you say!
Yeah just ignore it again that you tried to pass off a lie to support your point. Pathetic.
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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5 of RG3's victories have come against teams with a winning record.
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
minnesota, dallas, new york, and baltimore.

the saints are 6-8. the bucs are 6-8. the eagles are 4-10. and the browns are 5-9.

the redskins have 8 wins.

do you have problems with counting, or is it just an issue with telling the truth?
Jsagan telling lies??? Never. I totally believe that he owns a successful company and posts when he's driving. That's probably why he made that teeny weeny little mistake. It's hard to concentrate on stupid stuff like basic counting when you are preparing to go into Forbes rich list
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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This thread is wreaking of dumbassery.

Are we using stats? Or subjective analisys? I don't think you'll find one person in the RG3 camp that doesn't want to. The stats in this case tell the tale very well. The Luck guys don't like stats (except for the most absurd ones) because ogmf this fact.

Do you know why poker players, businesses, and pretty much every organization use Stats? Because that's the best way to objectively judge decision making as to what works and what doesn't by taking the human factor out of the equation. Granted Football isn't a perfect science and context is generally added to make up for inconsistencies in the story, but in this case the stats are very telling and paint a relatively clear picture of each rookies season this year.

And none of these guys suck. The thing that seperates them is one guy is playing like a seasoned vet and the other simply isn't. You can make up all the excuses, thrown in arguments for scheme and whose asked to do more but at the end of the day the stats cannot be ignored and neither can the fact that in other years all these guys would be deserving, but this year, one guy is not only playing at a pro bowl level vet out of the gate, he's having quite possibly the finest rookie season in the history of the sport. There's no shame in losing to that at all IMO.
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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he's having quite possibly the finest rookie season in the history of the sport.
The homer is strong in this one.
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
minnesota, dallas, new york, and baltimore.

the saints are 6-8. the bucs are 6-8. the eagles are 4-10. and the browns are 5-9.

the redskins have 8 wins.

do you have problems with counting, or is it just an issue with telling the truth?
The Bucs had a winning record when they beat them.
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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i agree and expect a full retraction of the two blatant lies you've posted. but then, that would be expecting some vague degree of integrity and honesty, so i expect to be waiting a fairly long time.
Yeah mistakes are lies, I forgot Minny had gone on a tear and the Bucs had a winning record when the skins played them so go ahead and retract your previous statement.
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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This is a ban-worthy argument. But then this is typical of RG3 nuthuggers in this thread. Use stats when it's convenient and then criticize their use when it hurts your agenda. Hold context and "actually watching the games" when it props up RG3, but demand objective stats and ignore context when it helps Luck. Use terrible arguments, then ignore it when people call you out on it. I don't know why anyone with an ounce of rational thought is even bothering to respond to you trolls anymore.
Torain has NEVER BEEN HEALTHY for 16 games. Ever. So anyone 'projecting' his numbers over 16 games isn't thinking this through properly.

Roy Helu has NEVER BEEN HEALTHY for 16 games as a SKin.
You can't project numbers. You take actual production on the field.

Torain ran for almost 750 yards in 10 games in 2010. THat's the guy's ceiling because he can't stay healthy. He ran for over 100 yards exactly THREE TIMES.

Roy Helu ran for 640 yards in 14 games in 2011. He ran for over 100 yards THREE TIMES.

None of these guys production on the field is representative of what Alfred Morris or RG3 have done rushing in 2012, and to suggest Helu/Torain somehow are indicative of SHanahan's ability to pull 1200 yard rushers out of a hat blindfolded is just...dumb.

Let me get this right, because Torain and Helu had a couple of decent games under SHanny, that somehow is predictive of Alfred Morris already rushing for 1300 yards in 14 games and the Skins having the best rushing attack in the NFL??lol

You get banned for arguing the truth around here???

I did not know that.
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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And if you want to get technical, the Saints
had a winning record cause everyone pencilled that one in ready.

Last edited by jsagan77 : 12-22-2012 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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Funny how 75 ypg is awesome when it comes to the skins rb's.. And in all honesty, Vick Ballard, when given the opportunity has been quite good. If they just gave him the ball as much as we gave Morris he'd have very similar stats. He's obviously superior to Brown and his ball security has been nothing short of impressive. I have a feeling he'll be their primary back going forward and will have some fine seasons for them.

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Torain has NEVER BEEN HEALTHY for 16 games. Ever. So anyone 'projecting' his numbers over 16 games isn't thinking this through properly.

Roy Helu has NEVER BEEN HEALTHY for 16 games as a SKin.
You can't project numbers. You take actual production on the field.

Torain ran for almost 750 yards in 10 games in 2010. THat's the guy's ceiling because he can't stay healthy. He ran for over 100 yards exactly THREE TIMES.

Roy Helu ran for 640 yards in 14 games in 2011. He ran for over 100 yards THREE TIMES.

None of these guys production on the field is representative of what Alfred Morris or RG3 have done rushing in 2012, and to suggest Helu/Torain somehow are indicative of SHanahan's ability to pull 1200 yard rushers out of a hat blindfolded is just...dumb.

Let me get this right, because Torain and Helu had a couple of decent games under SHanny, that somehow is predictive of Alfred Morris already rushing for 1300 yards in 14 games and the Skins having the best rushing attack in the NFL??lol

You get banned for arguing the truth around here???

I did not know that.
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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your refusal to correct them made them lies. and tampa did NOT have a winning record when they played washington, they were 1-2, having only won against carolina and having lost to dallas (16-10) and the giants (41-34).

so anything else you want to be wrong about?
Nope I stand corrected. At what point were they at a winning record?
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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Funny how 75 ypg is awesome when it comes to the skins rb's.. And in all honesty, Vick Ballard, when given the opportunity has been quite good. If they just gave him the ball as much as we gave Morris he'd have very similar stats. He's obviously superior to Brown and his ball security has been nothing short of impressive. I have a feeling he'll be their primary back going forward and will have some fine seasons for them.
Way to skew some stats there, 75 ypg sure, how about 4.5 yards per carry for Torain in 2010, a whopping 0.2 less than Morris this year
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Old 12-22-2012, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
your refusal to correct them made them lies. and tampa did NOT have a winning record when they played washington, they were 1-2, having only won against carolina and having lost to dallas (16-10) and the giants (41-34).

so anything else you want to be wrong about?
Can you just close this thread so i can stop smacking my head against the wall.
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Old 12-22-2012, 03:18 PM    (permalink
jsagan77
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Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
Way to skew some stats there, 75 ypg sure, how about 4.5 yards per carry for Torain in 2010, a whopping 0.2 less than Morris this year
Those are:
[ ] skewed stats
[x] simple math


Here's one for you though, when Ballard has been the primary ball carrier (15 attempts + per game) he has averaged 4.64 yards per carry while Morris has the SAME EXACT ypc given the same criteria.


It's not that the Colts don't have a run game, it's that they don't utilize it properly. Maybe the thing that truly seperates Luck and RG3 is coaching?

Last edited by jsagan77 : 12-22-2012 at 03:23 PM.
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Old 12-22-2012, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
Can you just close this thread so i can stop smacking my head against the wall.
What are you like 12? Just ignore it if you don't like it.
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