2013 Bucs draft.

[bigbuc]

2 of those picks today should be on Mike Williams.

[bigbuc]

Also I'm all for trading out of the top 10. Our team needs a lot of help.

2 Cb's
1 SLB
1 backup RB
1 pass rushing DT
1 Slot WR

[SpinaMan]

I like Tavon Austin from West VA. He'd be a legit slot WR.

[bucfan12]

Originally Posted by bigbuc

2 of those picks today should be on Mike Williams.

Freeman looks lost out there. How is that a sign that he's ur franchise qb? If mike Williams doesn't slip the chance of that ball being picked was still high bc there were 2 DBS in the area and he was never open and he floated it off his back foot.

He's probably going to be the starter but schiano will not have patience. His job will be on the line sooner he he doesn't see improvement in freeman or make a switch. He has no ties to him and I can bet competition better than orlovsky will be brought in this offseason.

[brasho]

Originally Posted by bigbuc

2 of those picks today should be on Mike Williams.

And one was a batted pass... still, horrible stat line which is exactly how he'll be judged in the offseason.

I gotta say... Mike Sullivan did absolutely nothing to help the team out. Down only 15 points with time left in the 3rd quarter and we completely abandonced the running

Two times we had a first and goal with a good amount of time on the clock on the 6-7 yard line and we lined up in the shotgun! The more I see of Sullivan's offense the more I'm convinced he needs to go back to the drawing board.

And what about Schiano's asinine decisions to go for it on long 4th and goal situations with a lot of time left on the game clock instead of taking 3 points? The chances of something good happening from chipping away at a lead 3 points at a time is far greater than converting a 4th and goal from the 7.

Between yesterday's game mismanagement and other ones similiar to the end of game decision to kick a long FB against the Falcons (and thus guaranteeing the Falcon O back on the field to either kill the clockk or try to win it with 3:19 on the clock) and then the decision to not call timeouts BEFORE the two minute warning, I am not convinced Schiano has a clue about game management.

Change the culture? Yes Play hard 60 minutes? Yes Make good game-time decisions? Hell NO!

[brasho]

Originally Posted by bucfan12

Freeman looks lost out there. How is that a sign that he's ur franchise qb? If mike Williams doesn't slip the chance of that ball being picked was still high bc there were 2 DBS in the area and he was never open and he floated it off his back foot.

He's probably going to be the starter but schiano will not have patience. His job will be on the line sooner he he doesn't see improvement in freeman or make a switch. He has no ties to him and I can bet competition better than orlovsky will be brought in this offseason.

http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=80754

Now Is The Time To Re-Sign Josh Freeman
December 24th, 2012 Look, Joe knows Bucs quarterback Josh Freeman has few friends this Christmas Eve after throwing eight picks in the past two games and melting down more and more each week right when the Bucs needed him most.

Joe had a chance to walk on the field of the Stadium on Dale Mabry Highway just as the final seconds were ticking off to the ugly loss to the Rams. There were two images that struck Joe the most.

1) Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik looked like a beaten man. Normally affable and walking with a smile if not perfect posture, Dominik walked to the Bucs locker room slumped over, head down as if he had just been put through a wringer.

2) Fans’ reaction to Freeman: There were untold dozens of fans in the stands as the game ended. Unlike last year at this time when the crowd was livid if not vile at the entire Bucs team. This was different. When various Bucs players walked off the field, fans clapped for them, asked for an autograph, a towel, a wristband, et al. But when Freeman appeared, that mood quickly switched to hostile, angry. Joe heard someone yell “Freeman!” and a loud chorus of boos erupted along with fans shouting all sorts of foul things to the Bucs quarterback. It was stunning to Joe.

This town, by and large, has turned on Freeman in just a handful of days and turned on him big time.

But while Dominik looked drained and Freeman was mercilessly heckled, this is the perfect time for those two to come together in their moment of need.

Yes, this is the perfect opportunity to sign Freeman to an extention.

Right now the Bucs have massive leverage on Freeman the way he has folded in recent weeks. Currently, he has little bargaining power with Dominik.

The Bucs’ front office leader could try to re-up Freeman to a very team-friendly contract, loaded with incentive-based clauses, where if Freeman cannot turn the corner, the Bucs could wash their hands of him with limited financial repercussions.

If Freeman is able to right his ship, with a heavily-laced incentive-based contract, he makes out good and positions himself for a massive pay increase in, say, 2015, and the Bucs get to keep their quarterback.

It buys both parties time. It’s a win-win.

Joe knows Dominik doesn’t want to let Freeman walk. He is linked to Freeman as that was his first — and primary — draft pick.

It’s the smart thing to do for the Bucs, both short-term and perhaps long-term. Re-sign Freeman in the coming weeks.

on Rodgers hadn’t started his first game, Drew Brees was being booed in San Diego, the fans wanted Brett Favre to hit the bench, Rich Gannon couldn’t even come close to locking up a starting job, Kurt Warner was bagging groceries, Warren Moon was throwing the ball in Canada, so were Jeff Garcia and Joe Theismann, and Steve Young hadn’t even been shipped off to San Francisco for a song, Tony Romo was a 3rd stringer, Roger Staubach was a member of the US Navy, Brad Johnson was playing in NFL Europe… that is what these QBs were doing when they were 24.

And you guys are sooooo convinced that he’s terrible, yet he’s light years ahead of the other guys (many current or future hall-of-famers). Nobody said developing a young QB would happy overnight even if it has happened more frequently now than ever. This is not an easy offense to learn. The playcalling has been absolute crap at times, and the game-time coaching strategies have not left much room for error. Developing a QB is a process, especially when trying to develop that QB in a system not friendly for developing QBs.

I agree whole-heartedly with Joe. Now is the time to strike an extension while the iron is hot, and the failure is fresh. We wait until next season and Freeman has entire offseason in the new offense and he comes back next season and breaks the bank…or at the very least we have to franchise him for a few seasons. It’s not sound logic.

As for worrying about re-signing him and how it would .affect season ticket sales… who the EFF freaking cares? You Tampa Buc fans are finicky anyways. I spent nearly $300 to watch one game in Carolina this season, and two years ago. With that money if I had lived in the Tampa area I could’ve had season tickets… and would have, too.

[bucfan12]

Brasho ,

Understand ur reasoning to be patient with a young qb. But freeman is a 4th year veteran who's been the starter since week 8 or 9 from 2009 season.

He showed flashes his rookie season but right now in year 4 were still only seeing flashes of what he could be. Even dating back to his 2010 season he did not perform well against quality opponents.

I think it's unfair to compare freeman to other qbs like Rodgers and Brees. Sure it took them a few years but by year 4 they did not look completely lost. Brees was pushed by competition. Maybe it should be the same for freeman. Maybe qb competition will wake him up. If it doesn't we have something better than orlovsky to step in. .

[bigfreak314]

I think the fact he has had a different offensive coordinator each year in the league has to be taken into consideration as well. Just look at Jason Campbell and Alex Smith, I think they both would have been pretty good QBs had they not change OC year in and year out. Once we get a continuity with our offensive staff I think Josh can flourish.

On another note I was glancing at our mock draft and I have to disagree with what Scott Wright projects for us. Sure Johnthan Banks is a pretty good cover corner but the negatives I hear is that he is not physical which just does not fly on Schiano's team. Isn't that why we passed on Mo Claibourne?
I think with the way the board plays out we would Dion Jordan instead and use him like Von Miller in Denver.

[bigbuc]

Guy I'm starting to like in the " Von Miller " role is Kyle Van Noy. Nice size. Look really good as our starting SLB/ stand up 3rd down pass rusher next season

[bigfreak314]

I don't know as a starter but I would love this guy on our team. Gotta love the energy and relentlessness!

[bucfan12]

Originally Posted by bigbuc

Guy I'm starting to like in the " Von Miller " role is Kyle Van Noy. Nice size. Look really good as our starting SLB/ stand up 3rd down pass rusher next season

He'd go round 1. He's getting a ton of hype right now. Him and Ansah were relentless. Both are 1st rounders. Van Noy will be taken by a 3-4 team.

[bigbuc]

Originally Posted by bucfan12

He'd go round 1. He's getting a ton of hype right now. Him and Ansah were relentless. Both are 1st rounders. Van Noy will be taken by a 3-4 team.

He looks a little light to be a full time starter on a 3-4 team. He'll most likely get drafted by Pitt, Balt or NE and become a pro bowler.

[brasho]

Originally Posted by bucfan12

He'd go round 1. He's getting a ton of hype right now. Him and Ansah were relentless. Both are 1st rounders. Van Noy will be taken by a 3-4 team.

I like Van Noy, but right now he is a 3rd rounder. He is smallish and we don't know if he can really open up his hips and run. If he shows well at the Combine he could elevate himself into round 2... if he declares.

[bigbuc]

Dream first three picks. ( this can and will change week to week )

1.Dee Milliner
2.Tavon AustIn
3.Everett Dawkins

[bucfan12]

Originally Posted by bigbuc

Dream first three picks. ( this can and will change week to week )

1.Dee Milliner
2.Tavon AustIn
3.Everett Dawkins

1. Dee Milliner
2. Kasheem Greene
3. Stedman Bailey

[bigbuc]

Originally Posted by bucfan12

1. Dee Milliner
2. Kasheem Greene
3. Stedman Bailey

I love Bailey just think Tavon can fill more rolls slot WR / RB/ PR & KR. Bailey does KR as well.

[brasho]

Originally Posted by bucfan12

I think it's unfair to compare freeman to other qbs like Rodgers and Brees. Sure it took them a few years but by year 4 they did not look completely lost. .

Uhhh, what planet have you been on?

Rodgers finally got the starting gig in his 4th season and during his 4th-5th seasons he was roundly criticized for holding onto the ball way too long. His OLine was even nicknamed "Baby Swiss" because they had so many holes in it... the nickname was only partly justified as Rodgers held onto the ball way too long far too often. And BTW, Rodgers was so good in his 4th season, he had a 6-10 record that year for the Packers... sounds familiar, doesn't it?

As for Brees, it was only in his 4th season that he finally cemented himself as a good starter in the league. It didn't hurt that the reigning league MVP, LaDanian Tomlinson, played for his team taking the pressure off, or that his defense was among the best in the league. He also had some fantastic weapons to work with (Antonio Gates, Michael Turner, and then later Darren Sproles, Vincent Jackson). The truth is about Brees, is that at that time, Brees was seen as littler more than a caretaker at that time. As a matter of fact, two of the next three seasons AFTER his 4th season, Brees' QB rating dipped below 90... and how many great QBs these days don't have QB ratings over 90? Brees didn't... of course he was still young... you know, young QBs do take some time to develop, even Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. Especially Eli Manning, and of course Josh Freeman.

[brasho]

I would love to see us trade down a few picks in the 1st and get all the way down to early 20's, from there we go

1) DE/LB D. Jordan
2a) WR T. Austin
2b) LB K. Greene
3) CB L. Payne

I was pretty impressed with Greene against VTech in the bowl game. I've got a feeling that if Schiano truly loves his former players, he'll want to pair Greene with David side-by-side and keep them both on the field full-time for the next 10+ years.

Payne is a very aggressive CB that has tons of experience playing the 0 and 1 coverages the Bucs currently employ. More than anything, the guy is tough and physical.

I honestly believe that the Bucs could improve their defense in the exact same way the Giants jumped 17 spots from 2009-2010, and no, i don't mean drafting JPP, I mean firing Bill Sheridan. Just the simple act of getting rid of Sheridan made the biggest difference in the Giants D as their personnel switch was fairly minimal.

[SpinaMan]

How about okefor from Texas? he is a solid pass rusher.

[bigbuc]

Thinking about big time move.... Would you guys offer our 2nd to the Jets for Revis? Cause I'm thinking I would. Reasons why...

1. Revis even at 90% is still the best CB in the league.
2. Getting a player like him doesn't come along a lot
3. Getting him for cheap.... Jets are in a rebuild mode. Could look to unload him and his value will never be lower.
4. We could still trade down to recuperate the pick that we give up for Revis.

[brasho]

Originally Posted by bigbuc

Thinking about big time move.... Would you guys offer our 2nd to the Jets for Revis? Cause I'm thinking I would. Reasons why...

1. Revis even at 90% is still the best CB in the league.
2. Getting a player like him doesn't come along a lot
3. Getting him for cheap.... Jets are in a rebuild mode. Could look to unload him and his value will never be lower.
4. We could still trade down to recuperate the pick that we give up for Revis.

The best thing we could do for the defense doesn't even involve players, it involves coaching. The Giants in 2010 improved their defense from 30th in the league to 13th by the simple act of firing Bill Sheridan. Yes, they added JPP, but JPP was no better than any of the exceptional DEs the Giants had (Osi, Tuck, Kiwanuka). The major change was getting a guy that could construct a defense and call plays.

I'm not big on making trades for players that are already getting major bank. The reality of free agency is this. If a player signs a big contract with his team, then his trade value is next to nothing as his value IS HIS contract. Revis is making a ton of money and for us to pay the salary AND give up anything close to substantial is bad business. Besides all that, we could be giving up the ton of cash and paying a 2nd rounder (which is too much for a guy that may never live up to his lofty contract) for a guy that is coming off a major injury. He's also held out for several preseasons over contract squabbles, including this preseason after having received a new contract only two seasons before.

Trading for him has all the makings of a headache that would be too expensive (he'll likely hold out for even more money before he reports) and may not ever pan out. I say hire a new DC, build through the draft and supplement with free agency.

[brasho]

Originally Posted by SpinaMan

How about okefor from Texas? he is a solid pass rusher.

How many sacks did he have last night? Five? At least four. He isn't known as a guy with great get off but he sure looked like he had it last night.

[bucfan12]

Originally Posted by brasho

I would love to see us trade down a few picks in the 1st and get all the way down to early 20's, from there we go

1) DE/LB D. Jordan
2a) WR T. Austin
2b) LB K. Greene
3) CB L. Payne

I was pretty impressed with Greene against VTech in the bowl game. I've got a feeling that if Schiano truly loves his former players, he'll want to pair Greene with David side-by-side and keep them both on the field full-time for the next 10+ years.

Payne is a very aggressive CB that has tons of experience playing the 0 and 1 coverages the Bucs currently employ. More than anything, the guy is tough and physical.

I honestly believe that the Bucs could improve their defense in the exact same way the Giants jumped 17 spots from 2009-2010, and no, i don't mean drafting JPP, I mean firing Bill Sheridan. Just the simple act of getting rid of Sheridan made the biggest difference in the Giants D as their personnel switch was fairly minimal.

Love Greene and Jordan as well. Jordan I think, after the combine will move into te top 10 similar to Aldon Smith. Comparison is perfect. So I dot think we'd be able to trade down and get him.

Dee milliner is a guy I'm really liking the more that I watch him. Stud IMO. Well coached as all the tools and intangibles. Top 10 cb potential.

[fishspinners]

I am all for taking DBs with there first three picks. Milliner or Vacaro in the first round would be day one starters. Rambo or Banks would be impact starters as well.

[brasho]

Originally Posted by bucfan12

Love Greene and Jordan as well. Jordan I think, after the combine will move into te top 10 similar to Aldon Smith. Comparison is perfect. So I dot think we'd be able to trade down and get him.

Dee milliner is a guy I'm really liking the more that I watch him. Stud IMO. Well coached as all the tools and intangibles. Top 10 cb potential.

I don't think Jordan sniffs the top 10. Just my opinion, but his body of work just isn't that impressive plus he's a tad light for regular 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE duties. I'm thinking he is more of a late-teens/twenties guys at this point.