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Old 12-23-2012, 07:20 PM    (permalink
Big_Pete
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JPP has done nothing this year. He actually looks fatter this year than last year. And I want an aggressive defense. True gaps are important but a 3-4 allows you to disguise your blitzes better or better than what we have done with Dumb, Dumber, and Dumbest, Lewis, Sheridan, and Fewell.

We need creativity. None of the god damn blitzes are getting home and that's IF we decide to blitz! QBs have ALL day to freaking the throw the mother.. f.. ball! That's BS!
I'd love to see a 3-4, but I am not sure Coughlin will go that far.

JPP could adapt to a 3-4 OLB imho, 4-3 DEs like Orakpo, Kerrigan, Matthis, Ellis, Hali etc have made the switch.

Jaquain Williams is probably not big enough to play inside in a 3-4, but probably could move to SS.

If we were to switch, NT would become our top need.
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Old 12-23-2012, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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I'd love to see a 3-4, but I am not sure Coughlin will go that far.

JPP could adapt to a 3-4 OLB imho, 4-3 DEs like Orakpo, Kerrigan, Matthis, Ellis, Hali etc have made the switch.

Jaquain Williams is probably not big enough to play inside in a 3-4, but probably could move to SS.

If we were to switch, NT would become our top need.
Well we did well with the 4-3. We won 2 SBs, but on our 4th damn DC. I want an aggressive system with creative blitz packages. Not a damn system, that puts all its eggs in the pass rush basket, and prays they get home. The blitzes are terrible and barely get home and the system is so bad. That's why I mentioned it.

In a 3-4 system you are going to blitz and send guys, but where? Who? And in what way? That forces DCs to be creative and be aggressive. Otherwise what? Are we doomed to have Lewis, Sheridan, and Fewell? At least Spags was aggressive and used the DL as well. If we can find an aggressive DC in a 4-3 system, then fine. But I am tired of having terrible DCs.
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Old 12-23-2012, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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Well, merry ******* christmas from all of the Giants players to us fans. What a horrible horrible loss. We are technically not out of it, but in reality this season is over. Whatever. Fire Fewell, Gilbride gets one more chance, but gets told that suckage like these final eight games is unacceptable.

Rebuild the trenches, they are old and overpaid on both sides. CB as well. I only want those three positions in the draft. O-line, D-line and CBs. LB could also be an area we need improvements in, but we do at least have some young guys there who could develop.

It would almost be better to lose to the Eagles next week. To get a higher draft position, and to lower the Eagles' draft position.
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Old 12-23-2012, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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Well BBN looked like you were accurate with your earlier opinion on this team. Props to you. This was a bad loss and this team looks emotionally dead. I hope we win next week. That would mean since ELi has started a full season, we have yet to have a losing season. So 9-7 would be nice.

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Old 12-23-2012, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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Well BBN looked like you were accurate with your earlier opinion on this team. Props to you. This was a bad loss and this team looks emotionally dead.

I wanted us to be wrong so badly. But this years team just didn't pass the eyeball-test in my pretty uneducated opinion. Last year, after the Packers loss in the regular season, I could see the fire and belief in the players eyes. This year i've for the most part just seen lethargy and smugness.

Like they're satisfied with winning last year, and this year isn't that important, because there's no jobs that are in danger. That's why I think the coaching staff and players should be shaken up in a big way after the season. Show them that they will be held accountable for not doing their jobs with any kind of consistency.
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Old 12-23-2012, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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In a 3-4 system you are going to blitz and send guys, but where? Who? And in what way? That forces DCs to be creative and be aggressive. Otherwise what? Are we doomed to have Lewis, Sheridan, and Fewell? At least Spags was aggressive and used the DL as well. If we can find an aggressive DC in a 4-3 system, then fine. But I am tired of having terrible DCs.
I am completely with you there NYG

I guess it depends on who shakes loose, but we definitely need to mix it up a lot more.
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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JPP, Williams, Prince, KP and Rolle are the only players worth keeping on this D right now. Finding a new DC that wants to come here and keep the 4-3 shouldn't be hard. Coaches should be salivating at the opportunity to work with JPP and co. We can build around those 5, but we need more guys who can play downhill at LB and attack and better younger pass rushers. It's going to take a few years to rebuild this D, but our offense is set(outside of needing some re-tooling on the OL). We need more depth at DT, another DE to groom, fresh LBs who can attack and another CB. If over the next 2 years if we can sure up at least our DL and secondary then this team is capable of another run. Until we can get back to rushing the passer effectively and often, we're screwed. I want Ansah and Greene this year, they would fit here perfectly.
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:09 PM    (permalink
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We still need another corner, while we'd all like another LB, it's not nearly as crucial as another pass rusher and CB.
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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Round 1: Ziggy
Round 2: Khaseem
Round 3: CB
Round 4: OG

boom.
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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While I would love Ansah, if we miss the playoffs or even worse lose next week, we could wind up with someone even better.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:35 AM    (permalink
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I wanted us to be wrong so badly. But this years team just didn't pass the eyeball-test in my pretty uneducated opinion. Last year, after the Packers loss in the regular season, I could see the fire and belief in the players eyes. This year i've for the most part just seen lethargy and smugness.

Like they're satisfied with winning last year, and this year isn't that important, because there's no jobs that are in danger. That's why I think the coaching staff and players should be shaken up in a big way after the season. Show them that they will be held accountable for not doing their jobs with any kind of consistency.
I saw it in the Cincy game. That's when I soured on our team's play. I saw an offense stall out and frankly have tendencies and show signs I haven't seen in this system. Wrs with opposing Cbs in their hip pocket on our usual routes as defined by curl, hitch, square in or out. No matter what our guys couldn't get room to make a play.

Our defensive side of the ball I have zero confidence in. So they proved to be useless. Inconsistent group led by a DC who should not have gotten the job. That SB run saved his job. I remember Paul Dittino, after the SB saying to Fewell that was he nervous or felt pressure about his job.

But I just didn't feel good about this team. The defensive side of the ball is useless and once the offense stalled, I knew we were in trouble.

For a HOF game, Coughlin gets a black mark on his resume for this constant end of the year slides. Someone in next year's training camp should ask him how he combats next years slide. Year after year, something has to be done.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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The bottom line is this: This team had a super bowl hang over. They just didn't have the intensity this year. A combination of complacency, injuries, and just an overall lack of talent, and age hit this team all at the same time. This wasn't our year. Don't deserve to make the playoffs, and from the body language and quotes from the players, you can tell that they mailed it in anyway. It's over for this season.

Moving forward, we're going to have a lot of roster turnover. I've said it all season long, we're gonna see some big changes on this team starting this offseason and rightfully so, it's time to get some new blood in here. This group had a good 5 year run together, but in the NFL 5 years is a long time. The core needs to be blown up and we need to start over on many levels.

The offense is fine from a player standpoint, outside the OL. I think we're good at WR moving forward with Nicks and Cruz, and hopefully Randle will develop and learn the playbook. I think we should re-sign Bennett. I think Wilson will get his chance next year, and Andre Brown should be here as well. I'd like to see a Brown/Wilson duo at RB moving forward. I think Beatty should get franchised, let's see him do it 2 years in a row, but he gives us the opportunity to not worry about LT in the draft, Baas played well, we're good at C, we need Gs and a RT. So those are my offensive priorities in the draft: G, RT.

Coaching wise, I think the playbook needs to change a little. I have no worries here, I think Gilbride will adjust. I wouldn't mind seeing us get away from a 3 WR offense and maybe try to use more 2 TE sets. I still have TE on the board if a good player is available.

On defense, we need a complete overhaul. Keep JPP, KP, Rolle, Kiwi, JWILL, Prince, everyone else from the core can pretty much go. Keep Joseph for the right price, set a limit and do not exceed that price no matter what, he's just a 2 down run stuffer I'm not concerned about him at all. Boley is old, let him go, Canty is expensive, let him go if he doesn't restructure, let go of Tuck, let Osi walk, Corey is done, it's time to rebuild the defense.

I think Hosely can be a decent slot CB, but we desperately need another CB. I think we're fine at S with KP and Rolle, with Will Hill behind them. Brown is a FA and he will walk. I know you guys like Brown a lot, as do I, but to be fair, he makes ALOT of mistakes that you don't see on TV. Don't let the INT #s fool you, he's not that good. Not worth re-signing.

We need a whole new LB core. Keep JWILL, everyone else can go.

We desperately need DTs. We need 2 DTs at least. DE is a need as well. We need a guy opposite of JPP.

So we need 1 DE, 2 DTs, 2 LBs, a CB on defense. That's a lot.

So we have a lot of cleaning up to do with this roster.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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no brown sucks and is gonna get a big payday because of his turnovers. let him go, easily.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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As for DC, I can only hope that Fewell gets fired. If he gets lit up vs the Eagles, that might do him in. If we win, he might get 1 more year to my dismay.

Guys I'd like to see replace him? Well it's hard to say. There are a lot of great positional coaches who we don't know about who would do great that we'd overlook.

Some names that come to my mind:

Mike Pettine - DC of the Jets. He wants out of NYJ, didn't extend his contract. Rex's scheme is the perfect scheme in my mind. If I can have the Giants run any scheme in particular, THIS is the scheme. Now I don't know how much input Pettine truly had with the Jets defense, but if he did, and he can bring that here, he's #1 on my wish list. The Jets ran a 3-4 on paper, but they were a hybrid defense. They ran a lot of Bear formations, a lot of 46, some 4-3. I believe he'd adjust his formations to reflect the talent we have on our defense.


Lovie Smith: If he gets fired from the Bears, I wouldn't mind grabbing him as DC. The guy is one hell of a DC. Yes, he runs Cover 2 which I despise, but let's be real, it's pretty obvious Coughlin loves Cover 2 himself bc all of his DCs outside of Spags were Cover 2 DCs, plus Lovie is arguably the best Cover 2 DC in the league. He runs a good amount of man coverage anyway.

Gus Bradley: Seattle's DC. I love the scheme Seattle runs. If he can bring that physicality to the Giants, I'm all for it.

Steve Spagnuolo: My first choice but an unrealistic possibility bc I don't see him leaving NO this year.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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My concern with hiring a new DC is that I frankly don't trust Coughlin not to hire a Lewis or Sheridan. Fewell's mediocre, especially when he doesn't trust the secondary, but he's not Lewis or Sheridan. I'd love to have another spags type, but I just don't think we'd hire a guy like that if we did replace Fewell.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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You can't approach the situation like that. You don't keep a turd bc you're afraid you might get a smellier turd as a replacement.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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One guy I haven't heard too much about, but am really interested in his Jerry Gray, the Tennessee defensive coordinator. I've seen a few games and he LOVES to play aggressive defense. He sends a lot of pressure from all over the place. The Titans have been pretty good on defense despite really not having a ton of talent.

I don't know much about him, but I'm very interested in him.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
As for DC, I can only hope that Fewell gets fired. If he gets lit up vs the Eagles, that might do him in. If we win, he might get 1 more year to my dismay.

Guys I'd like to see replace him? Well it's hard to say. There are a lot of great positional coaches who we don't know about who would do great that we'd overlook.

Some names that come to my mind:

Mike Pettine - DC of the Jets. He wants out of NYJ, didn't extend his contract. Rex's scheme is the perfect scheme in my mind. If I can have the Giants run any scheme in particular, THIS is the scheme. Now I don't know how much input Pettine truly had with the Jets defense, but if he did, and he can bring that here, he's #1 on my wish list. The Jets ran a 3-4 on paper, but they were a hybrid defense. They ran a lot of Bear formations, a lot of 46, some 4-3. I believe he'd adjust his formations to reflect the talent we have on our defense.


Lovie Smith: If he gets fired from the Bears, I wouldn't mind grabbing him as DC. The guy is one hell of a DC. Yes, he runs Cover 2 which I despise, but let's be real, it's pretty obvious Coughlin loves Cover 2 himself bc all of his DCs outside of Spags were Cover 2 DCs, plus Lovie is arguably the best Cover 2 DC in the league. He runs a good amount of man coverage anyway.

Gus Bradley: Seattle's DC. I love the scheme Seattle runs. If he can bring that physicality to the Giants, I'm all for it.

Steve Spagnuolo: My first choice but an unrealistic possibility bc I don't see him leaving NO this year.
Gus Bradley never blitzes. You guys would hate him in no time for only playing "prevent."

It only works because no one can throw on Seattle's secondary regardless of how long they need to cover for. They are that good.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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I love Miami's defensive coordinator as well. The problem is, these guys already have jobs. They'd have to leave to get out of a shadow, or their coach has to get fired for them to be a possibility.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
Gus Bradley never blitzes. You guys would hate him in no time for only playing "prevent."

It only works because no one can throw on Seattle's secondary regardless of how long they need to cover for. They are that good.
I like how you guys attack gaps. And I love the physicality the secondary plays with. Maybe that is not coached, maybe that's just the players being good players, and if that's the case then my opinion of him could change, but I love the fronts you guys use. It's a good hybrid.

But what I really like about your defense is the talent, the tackling, and the physicality and range of the secondary. So maybe I'm falling in love with the talent and giving the DC too much credit for it. I could be guilty of that.

I just love Seattle's defense. It's my favorite defense in the league for my money. Great DL, great LB core, the best secondary in the league. It's just a great defense.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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It's the adderall.
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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If Rex Ryan gets fired by some miracle, I'd be ALL over that. Ryan is a tremendous DC.
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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So I didn't get to see the game last night so I DVR'd it and I'm watching it now.

Wow.

The lack of effort is astounding. They didn't even try. The attempts on tackling were pathetic. The body language of the whole team is alarming. The OL is getting destroyed.

This was just a bad game. And Fewell blitzed. He blitzed plenty. But the blitzes were very poorly disguised, but more troubling was players who blitzed didn't blitz hard. I saw a couple of jogs out there on the blitz. Wth?

The lack of effort is alarming. They looked like they didn't want to be there and just want the season to end.
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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Osi has come out with some interesting comments

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2...eres_a_hi.html

among the hightlights are

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osi
"Where are they going to make the changes is the question," Umenyiora said. "There is no individual, there is no aspect of the team this year that stood out. People want to just talk about the pass rush. OK, well maybe we didnít get 50 sacks like we did last year, but was the offense playing well? Was the special teams playing (well)? Like where? There was nowhere that was up to par, that was up to the standard that we set last year. So if they're going to be making changes, it has to be wholesale changes, it has to be changes for everybody, because nobody played above average this year."
None of us are surprised, this is on the money, but players don't usually come out and say it.
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
As for DC, I can only hope that Fewell gets fired. If he gets lit up vs the Eagles, that might do him in. If we win, he might get 1 more year to my dismay.

Guys I'd like to see replace him? Well it's hard to say. There are a lot of great positional coaches who we don't know about who would do great that we'd overlook.

Some names that come to my mind:

Mike Pettine - DC of the Jets. He wants out of NYJ, didn't extend his contract. Rex's scheme is the perfect scheme in my mind. If I can have the Giants run any scheme in particular, THIS is the scheme. Now I don't know how much input Pettine truly had with the Jets defense, but if he did, and he can bring that here, he's #1 on my wish list. The Jets ran a 3-4 on paper, but they were a hybrid defense. They ran a lot of Bear formations, a lot of 46, some 4-3. I believe he'd adjust his formations to reflect the talent we have on our defense.


Lovie Smith: If he gets fired from the Bears, I wouldn't mind grabbing him as DC. The guy is one hell of a DC. Yes, he runs Cover 2 which I despise, but let's be real, it's pretty obvious Coughlin loves Cover 2 himself bc all of his DCs outside of Spags were Cover 2 DCs, plus Lovie is arguably the best Cover 2 DC in the league. He runs a good amount of man coverage anyway.

Gus Bradley: Seattle's DC. I love the scheme Seattle runs. If he can bring that physicality to the Giants, I'm all for it.

Steve Spagnuolo: My first choice but an unrealistic possibility bc I don't see him leaving NO this year.
Thanks BBD, nice analysis

What are your thoughts on Dick Jauron?
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