Poll: Rookie of the Year (week 16)

[Shreckart]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq_6B5_yRbw

For some reason it's not letting me post the video itself, but there's a link.

[tmljeh19]

Originally Posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock

It is getting really hard to deny Russel Wilson. Andrew luck may finish 2nd again for an award...

You mean 3rd

[tmljeh19]

Originally Posted by soybean

How the hell are people still considering Luck a possible OROY winner?

Because he is the second coming of Jesus? Regardless of his stats or play.

[tmljeh19]

Originally Posted by SuperPacker

Because he single handedly took the colts from the 1st pick to the playoffs!!!!!

Basing an individual award off of team performance = fail

[WinslowBodden]

I know I am in the minority but I firmly believe Wilson should be the ROTY or the three should split, it's honest to god near impossible to pick one of those 3 to be the favorite.

Wilson is close to breaking Manning's record for most TD passes, he has been extremely efficient with the ball, not turning it over very much, and has a very young squad around him that didn't do hardly anything on offense last year.

Arguments can be made for all three quarterbacks obviously, I am just most shocked/impressed with what Wilson has done.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by xjxdarren

And the New York Knicks will be the NBA champion this year.

The SKins beating the Cowboys for a 2nd time this season at home in FedEx is the equivalent of the Knicks winning the NBA championship??

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by tmljeh19

Basing an individual award off of team performance = fail

It's not any different than simply looking at a stat sheet without any context of what actually happened.

[descendency]

Originally Posted by xjxdarren

And the New York Knicks will be the NBA champion this year.

I can't wait to see the tears in May when everyone is forced to face the fact that the Knicks are extremely over-rated.

[tmljeh19]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

It's not any different than simply looking at a stat sheet without any context of what actually happened.

You cant base an individual award on a teams W/L record. Individual stats play a majority of the role in determination. If a team wins 21-14 and the defense had a pick 6 and special teams returned a kick for a TD how can you base that QBs play of the W? He wasn't responsible for that win.

[tjsunstein]

What the hell are these new posters?

[tmljeh19]

NFL QB Rating: Griffin - 104.1 (1st), Wilson 98.0 (7th), Luck 75.6 (25th)

% of First Down Passes - Griffin 38.7%, 145/375 (5th), Wilson 37.7%, 141/371 (7th), Luck 33.2% 199/599 (21st)

% of Passes Intercepted - Griffin 1.3%, 5/375 (2nd), Wilson 2.7%, 10/371 (20th), Luck 3.3% 18/599 (Outside the top 20)

QBR in 2 WRs Sets - Griffin 137.8 (1st), Wilson 105.1 (10th), Luck 98.6 (10th)

QBR in 3 WRS Sets - Wilson 93.2 (8th), Griffin 92.1 (8th), Luck 78.3 (outside top 20)

QBR in 4 WRs Sets - Griffin 91.0 (9th), Wilson 89.6 (11th), Luck 64.1 (31st)

[xjxdarren]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

The SKins beating the Cowboys for a 2nd time this season at home in FedEx is the equivalent of the Knicks winning the NBA championship??

And who would've thought that Ryan Lochte could only get two golds in London?!

Honestly, I think the odds of Knicks winning it all this year is at least no less than the Skins winning this weekend - provided Amare doesn't play like how Amare used to play, or otherwise not play at all.

Jason Garrette knows this can potentially be the last straw.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by xjxdarren

And who would've thought that Ryan Lochte could only get two golds in London?!

Honestly, I think the odds of Knicks winning it all this year is at least no less than the Skins winning this weekend - provided Amare doesn't play like how Amare used to play, or otherwise not play at all.

Jason Garrette knows this can potentially be the last straw.

It has nothing to do with whether or not the Knicks are capable or good enough to win an NBA title. It's comparing their chances to the SKins winning one game that's the problem.
The Knicks aren't 50/50 to win a title this year.

[xjxdarren]

Originally Posted by tmljeh19

You cant base an individual award on a teams W/L record. Individual stats play a majority of the role in determination. If a team wins 21-14 and the defense had a pick 6 and special teams returned a kick for a TD how can you base that QBs play of the W? He wasn't responsible for that win.

Lol your imaginary scenario does no damage to Luck but is utterly counterproductive to making a case for Wilson.

Would the Colts get the win this past game without his 7th game-winning drive? You tell me.

However, if you do the math (provided that you can do math), you'll notice that none of Wilson's 4 TD passes were required to get the W, as Seahawks would still have out scored niners 14-13 by sheer virtue of their special team and defense.

Please run through your contrived cases in the head before they do you disservice at making a point.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by tmljeh19

NFL QB Rating: Griffin - 104.1 (1st), Wilson 98.0 (7th), Luck 75.6 (25th)

% of First Down Passes - Griffin 38.7%, 145/375 (5th), Wilson 37.7%, 141/371 (7th), Luck 33.2% 199/599 (21st)

% of Passes Intercepted - Griffin 1.3%, 5/375 (2nd), Wilson 2.7%, 10/371 (20th), Luck 3.3% 18/599 (Outside the top 20)

QBR in 2 WRs Sets - Griffin 137.8 (1st), Wilson 105.1 (10th), Luck 98.6 (10th)

QBR in 3 WRS Sets - Wilson 93.2 (8th), Griffin 92.1 (8th), Luck 78.3 (outside top 20)

QBR in 4 WRs Sets - Griffin 91.0 (9th), Wilson 89.6 (11th), Luck 64.1 (31st)

I wish OROTY voters crunched numbers like this, be we all know they don't.

[xjxdarren]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

It has nothing to do with whether or not the Knicks are capable or good enough to win an NBA title. It's comparing their chances to the SKins winning one game that's the problem.
The Knicks aren't 50/50 to win a title this year.

Yeah determining the outcome of a football game is EXACTLY like flipping a coin!

You really need to take a introductory statistics class before discussing probabilities.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by xjxdarren

Yeah determining the outcome of a football game is EXACTLY like flipping a coin!

You really need to take a introductory statistics class before discussing probabilities.

There's only two teams playing in the Skins/Cowboys game.

How many teams make the NBA playoffs??

You talk so much **** and more than half the time don't have a point to make.

[xjxdarren]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

There's only two teams playing in the Skins/Cowboys game.

How many teams make the NBA playoffs??

You talk so much **** and more than half the time don't have a point to make.

Just because there are only two teams the odds must be 50/50?! Next time I shall challenge Michael Jordan to a one-on-one thanks to your advice.

You should just have your GED revoked man. Beyond pathetic.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by xjxdarren

Just because there are only two teams the odds must be 50/50?! Next time I shall challenge Michael Jordan to a one-on-one thanks to your advice.

You should just have your GED revoked man. Beyond pathetic.

I'm not talking about probability distribution you dumb ****. I'm talking about the chances to win ONE GAME between two similar opponents, which is in no way similar to the odds of winning a ******* NBA postseason tournament.

Again, still talking all that **** and your breath smells like ass.

[xjxdarren]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

I'm not talking about probability distribution you dumb ****. I'm talking about the chances to win ONE GAME between two similar opponents, which is in no way similar to the odds of winning a ******* NBA postseason tournament.

Again, still talking all that **** and your breath smells like ass.

Lol some lady is getting mad and can't help make a scene. Don't remember who brought up, quote, "50/50", already? Amnesia at such young age is never a good sign; there are so many more classes out there that will help you!

[tmljeh19]

Originally Posted by xjxdarren

Lol your imaginary scenario does no damage to Luck but is utterly counterproductive to making a case for Wilson.

Would the Colts get the win this past game without his 7th game-winning drive? You tell me.

However, if you do the math (provided that you can do math), you'll notice that none of Wilson's 4 TD passes were required to get the W, as Seahawks would still have out scored niners 14-13 by sheer virtue of their special team and defense.

Please run through your contrived cases in the head before they do you disservice at making a point.

This is the second time you chose to read something I said and contrived it to something pulled 10 feet up your ass.

I said IF a team wins 21-14 and their defense and special teams scores a TD each you can not say that the QB play was a direct result to the win. Hence you CAN NOT base OROY on a teams W/L record. I said absolutely NOTHING about Luck's KC game. But hell its quite impressive struggling to beat the 2-13 Chiefs.

[xooberon]

I posted this in the old thread but now updated through week 16:

Drop % (% of pass att that are dropped): RGIII - 8.8, Luck - 7.7, Wilson - 5.6

Accuracy % (what completion% would look like when drops, spikes, throw aways etc aren't factored in): RGIII - 80.6, Wilson - 75.9, Luck - 67.2

YIA% (% of yards that come before the catch): Luck - 63.6, Wilson - 62.9, RGIII - 53.8

Deep Passing Acc % (completion % (including drops) of balls thrown for 20 yards or more): RGIII - 54.5, Wilson - 47.5, Luck - 42.0 [Important to note that RGIII attempts deep throws about half as much as Wilson and Luck]

Pressure % (% of dropbacks under pressure): Wilson - 38.6, Luck - 38.4, RGIII - 35.2

Completion % Under Pressure: RGIII - 58.4, Wilson - 43.9, Luck - 40.5

Accuracy % Under Pressure: RGIII - 78.4, Wilson - 64.0, Luck - 55.6

Source: PFF

[tmljeh19]

Originally Posted by xooberon

I posted this in the old thread but now updated through week 16:

Drop % (% of pass att that are dropped): RGIII - 8.8, Luck - 7.7, Wilson - 5.6

Accuracy % (what completion% would look like when drops, spikes, throw aways etc aren't factored in): RGIII - 80.6, Wilson - 75.9, Luck - 67.2

YIA% (% of yards that come before the catch): Luck - 63.6, Wilson - 62.9, RGIII - 53.8

Deep Passing Acc % (completion % (including drops) of balls thrown for 20 yards or more): RGIII - 54.5, Wilson - 47.5, Luck - 42.0 [Important to note that RGIII attempts deep throws about half as much as Wilson and Luck]

Pressure % (% of dropbacks under pressure): Wilson - 38.6, Luck - 38.4, RGIII - 35.2

Completion % Under Pressure: RGIII - 58.4, Wilson - 43.9, Luck - 40.5

Accuracy % Under Pressure: RGIII - 78.4, Wilson - 64.0, Luck - 55.6

Source: PFF

Some of these stats are freaking unreal. 80% completion with drops factored in. Beast!! The under pressure stats are awesome as well. But hell what does that matter. Luck has one more win thats all that matters right? RIGHT??

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by tmljeh19

You cant base an individual award on a teams W/L record. Individual stats play a majority of the role in determination. If a team wins 21-14 and the defense had a pick 6 and special teams returned a kick for a TD how can you base that QBs play of the W? He wasn't responsible for that win.

Likewise if a QB scores 3 TD's in garbage time while doing nothing the rest of the game and he finishes the game with a 110 QB rating in a losing effort, did he have a good game? The exact same rationale applies.

[Trogdor]

Originally Posted by tmljeh19

Some of these stats are freaking unreal. 80% completion with drops factored in. Beast!! The under pressure stats are awesome as well. But hell what does that matter. Luck has one more win thats all that matters right? RIGHT??

College QB's routinely complete 80% of their passes. It really helps to have a scheme and a 1400 yard rusher (through 15 games) that allow you to play super safe lateral passing game. Even in that statistic posted above he's a full 10% behind the other two in YIA%. That means he's CONSISTENTLY checking down and asking his WRs to get to the marker and do the work.

RGIII is a phenomenal player but he's running a college offense suited to him playing dynamic bus driver and not taking risks. Given that RGIII is on a team with the best rushing attack in football he should have FAR higher percentage of YIA% due to the sheer success of deep play action versus run-aligned defenses.

That statistic also explains why RGIII is historically bad on third and 10+ or factoring completions yardage on 3rd down. He consistently throws the ball short of the marker and asks his teammates to get the first down. By comparison Luck is the NFL rookie leader (all-time) in this statistic. If it's completely on the 3rd down 80% of the time it's a first down. This is from playing in an NFL offense and not depending on screens, swings, and checkdowns to get the job done.

If you are going to boast about RGIII's statistics you really need to give credit to the scheme, for never asking him to take chances, and the rushing attack for never allowing a defense to key on him. If you add up every rush attempted by the Colts they only barely edge out Alfred Morris ALONE. Think about that. I'm including every single Colts player rushing versus the lead back for the Skins. The rushing attack for the Skins is the bread-winner while the passing attack is secondary. The Colts by comparison have Andrew Luck and the passing game and that's it. That's why you see things like 50 attempts from Luck while 22 attempts from RGIII. That's also why you have a 4,000 yard passing record breaking season from Luck while sitting slightly above 3,000 from RGIII.

Is RGIII efficient? Beyond measure. Is he being asked to carry his team the way Luck is? Absolutely not. Taking a 2-14 team with little talent to the 10-5 record and playoffs is more impressive than taking the TOP RANKED RUSHING 'Skins to a 9-6 potential playoff birth.

As had been said many times. Do voters look at box scores and simply weigh QBR (RGIII), or Yardage (Luck), and Efficiency (RGIII). Or do they view the award like the MVP?

If they view it as MVP they will be taking a QB breaking yardage and attempt records over one slinging the ball ~24 times a game. Point blank if the Redskins lost RGIII will they still win games? See the Cleveland Browns game. They still have their league leading rushing attack. If the Colts lose Luck? They don't have a running game and their defense just gave up 500+ yards to the Chiefs so the defense argument doesn't work either.