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View Poll Results: Who's your MVP entering Sunday week 12
P Manning 28 50.00%
A Rodgers 4 7.14%
T Brady 12 21.43%
R Griffin 1 1.79%
D Brees 3 5.36%
M Ryan 2 3.57%
A Peterson 4 7.14%
A Foster 0 0%
M Lynch 1 1.79%
Other: Who? 1 1.79%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-26-2012, 09:54 AM    (permalink
Halsey
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"hypothetical the Broncos would have done this and that without Peyton blah blah..."

Yeah, well in reality, with Peyton, they're one of the best teams in the league, while their offense is clearly better, averaging 10 more points per game than last year. As usual, players around Peyton, such as D. Thomas, Decker and Moreno are playing well.

Has anyone else noticed that RBs always seem to play better with Peyton than without him? Edgerrin James had his best years with Peyton. Joseph Addai, Domenick Rhodes and now Moreno all support that argument too.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i actually just had to think... "would we be worse with osweiler or tebow starting at qb? hmm..."

we won the division last year (and a playoff game) with a combination of kyle orton and tim tebow at qb, joe mays actually starting games, and andre goodman on the field. i'm pretty sure this year's team is a little bit better.
And the division is also a little worse. San Diego was much worse than I expected, I thought SD would put up a fight but I'm starting to question how good Phillip Rivers really is bc he's had 2 horrific seasons in a row now, and KC is a joke as is Oakland.

This division could have been won at 8-8 realistically.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:02 AM    (permalink
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"hypothetical the Broncos would have done this and that without Peyton blah blah..."

Yeah, well in reality, with Peyton, they're one of the best teams in the league, while their offense is clearly better, averaging 10 more points per game than last year. As usual, players around Peyton, such as D. Thomas, Decker and Moreno are playing well.

Has anyone else noticed that RBs always seem to play better with Peyton than without him? Edgerrin James had his best years with Peyton. Joseph Addai, Domenick Rhodes and now Moreno all support that argument too.
It's the offense. That no huddle spread offense leaves 6 in the box. It's a lot easier to run for these guys with those smaller fronts, and Peyton is not afraid to audible to a run if he sees a look he likes.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:35 AM    (permalink
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I'm not sure Manning really had a signature game either. Was it the 204-yard, one-touchdown victory over Baltimore? The win over the Bengals? Beating Pittsburgh, a non-playoff team, in the first game of the season? The Broncos lost to the three best teams they played (Atlanta, Houston, New England) and have two wins against winning teams (Bengals, Steelers.) They played Oakland twice, San Diego twice, Kansas City twice, the Panthers, Saints, Buccaneers, and Browns. That's a cakewalk. I won't argue with the claim that Peyton is one of the best players in the league, I just don't think he added nearly as much to his team's win total as Adrian Peterson.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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There really isn't any meaningful distinction to make between the 3 QB's. Their stats are essentially identicial, and there records are all close enough to the point where nothing meaningful can be deduced from the 1 game difference.

I don't really agree with Njx's point on Brady being the entire team. I think the Patriots are a balanced enough team that they could have snuck into the playoffs without him this year in a weak AFC.

If I couldn't pick Peterson I'd probably pick Aaron Rodgers because GB has absolutely no offensive identity besides him slinging the football around like a madman. While I think Brady has performed the best out of the 3 this year.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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People keep pointing out that the Broncos three losses came to the best teams they've played. Would it be better if they lost to the three worst teams they played?
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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People keep pointing out that the Broncos three losses came to the best teams they've played. Would it be better if they lost to the three worst teams they played?
No, but at some point you need to step up and beat the best. If people want to use the fact that they have the best record of the 3 as a reason why he should win the MVP award, then you need to take the schedule into account. Would the Broncos be heading into the bye had they had played the Patriots or the Packers schedule?
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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The Denver Broncos are a different team from the one that faced the Texans, Falcons and Patriots, hell even the Chargers. After the bye they stopped turning the ball over to the other team like crazy on the 1st half. Manning is in sync with his receivers and the defense is playing extremely good, specially on the 2nd half.

I'm looking forward to the playoff game against the Patriots or Texans.
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
you know, and the fact that for the vast majority of the season he's been the entire patriots team. denver may not be fighting for a bye week without manning, but anyone who thinks they weren't still the best team in the afc west is kidding themselves.

peyton shouldn't get an mvp vote this year.

It's clear you think Brady deserves it but I'm curious as to why you think Brady isn't actually considered a contender by those who matter in the voting process? What are they missing that you get?

His odds sit at +750 right now and there's absolutely nothing he can do to win the award in Week 17 so he's 99% out of the race.
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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It's clear you think Brady deserves it but I'm curious as to why you think Brady isn't actually considered a contender by those who matter in the voting process? What are they missing that you get?

His odds sit at +750 right now and there's absolutely nothing he can do to win the award in Week 17 so he's 99% out of the race.
It's actually pretty simple. QB rating is what essentially determines the award. Brady's is significantly lower than Manning's and Rodgers because he has more attempts and fewer TD's. Couple that with the fact that his completion % is a few points lower, and voila you get a lower QB rating.

It's not entirely indicative of how his season is going because the Patriots have rushed for a ton of TD's and are easily the highest scoring offense, but when comparing QB's with similar records in a close race like this people are going to make their decision based on the stat lines/ records they see.
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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If it was that simple they'd all vote for Rodgers considering he's at 106.2 (best in the NFL) compared to Manning's 103.7 and Brady's 98.3.

And Rodgers has the most TDs.
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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he doesn't have the story that say, peterson has. being the, imo, sole reason the pats are in the playoffs doesn't seem to be enough for voters. that said, i generally think anyone voting for football awards is probably an idiot (see: peter king), so their reasoning might be even more specious.
But why Manning over Brady and by such a wide margin? What are they missing?
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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If it was that simple they'd all vote for Rodgers considering he's at 106.2 (best in the NFL) compared to Manning's 103.7 and Brady's 98.3.

And Rodgers has the most TDs.
Well that is my explanation as to why Brady won't win it. Having a QB rating below 100 is kind of a stigma in this day and age. Manning will always have some kind of extra bump over more qualified candidates if he's playing well (2008 & 2009 MVP's as examples) the fact that he's closer this year in terms of statistics than he's been in year's past just makes it a slam dunk.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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Bengals, he still managed to complete 77% of his passes, throw for 291 yards with a 8.31ypa, 3 TD's and yes, he had 2 picks, with a QB rating of over 100 and if it floats your boat, a QBR of 94.7.
Chiefs, I find it funny a bad game for Manning is a pretty damn good game. nearly 60% of his passes completed, 285 yards, 7.7ypa, 2 TD's and 1 INT. 90 QB rating, QBR of 71.3.
Falcons game is really the only game he has performed extremely poor in.

The only thing Brady really has on Manning is less interceptions. Everything else is the same, or in Manning's favor. Given the turnaround Manning has given the Broncos, I don't see how he isn't the MVP to be honest.
Brady has more passing yards total, more pass yards a game, more long passes, better pass interception % and won the heads up match up. Brady has also a far worse defense. Manning is playing with another MVP candidate Von Miller what other MVP candidate is Brady playing with?
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:13 PM    (permalink
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in peter king's case, probably the games themselves.
Seriously, why do the majority of the other 49 voters 100% disagree with the belief that Manning shouldn't get a single vote?
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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No, but at some point you need to step up and beat the best. If people want to use the fact that they have the best record of the 3 as a reason why he should win the MVP award, then you need to take the schedule into account. Would the Broncos be heading into the bye had they had played the Patriots or the Packers schedule?
Slagging the Broncos schedule isn't reasonable. They had the 1st place schedule, despite being 8-8 last year, and the AFC North and NFC South divisions on tap. It looked to be one of the hardest schedules heading into the season. Oh, and it was front-loaded because the NFL TV folks were afraid Manning's neck wouldn't hold up.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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Brady has more passing yards total, more pass yards a game, more long passes, better pass interception % and won the heads up match up. Brady has also a far worse defense. Manning is playing with another MVP candidate Von Miller what other MVP candidate is Brady playing with?
Von Miller is a great player having a great season, but he is definitely not an MVP candidate. And playing with a great player on the other side of the ball is hardly playing with him, if you know what I mean. Manning has a better defense, that's a fair point. But then adding he has Von Miller on top of it means nothing. Miller indirectly affects Manning by helping the defense, but he has no direct effect on Manning's play as a skill position player would.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:55 PM    (permalink
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JJ Watt and Geno Atkins deserve more consideration.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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Slagging the Broncos schedule isn't reasonable. They had the 1st place schedule, despite being 8-8 last year, and the AFC North and NFC South divisions on tap. It looked to be one of the hardest schedules heading into the season. Oh, and it was front-loaded because the NFL TV folks were afraid Manning's neck wouldn't hold up.
I just don't really see any wins that are that impressive to this point in the season. Their 2 best wins come against slumping teams that were both in losing streaks and really aren't that great to begin with. They were handled by the 3 best teams on their schedule, and have essentially played 3 teams that had some semblance of a chance against them since week 5. Not saying that the Broncos record isn't impressive because it's hard to stay focused and not drop an easy one, it's just that I don't really think the 1 game difference is something that should give Manning a definitive edge over Brady or Rodgers.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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in peter king's case, probably the games themselves.
Why so much jealousy towards Pistol Pete?
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:59 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Mufasa View Post
Von Miller is a great player having a great season, but he is definitely not an MVP candidate. And playing with a great player on the other side of the ball is hardly playing with him, if you know what I mean. Manning has a better defense, that's a fair point. But then adding he has Von Miller on top of it means nothing. Miller indirectly affects Manning by helping the defense, but he has no direct effect on Manning's play as a skill position player would.
Yes he is a MVP candidate pay attention. It helps Manning as the better Miller plays the better the defense plays the more Manning gets the ball.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:11 AM    (permalink
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Yes he is a MVP candidate pay attention. It helps Manning as the better Miller plays the better the defense plays the more Manning gets the ball.

The Pats have run more than a hundred more plays than the Broncos this year and lead the league in that category, so your argument makes no sense.

ps. punctuation is your friend.

Last edited by yo123 : 12-27-2012 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:39 AM    (permalink
Mufasa
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Yes he is a MVP candidate pay attention. It helps Manning as the better Miller plays the better the defense plays the more Manning gets the ball.
1. No he's not. If any defensive player is going to win it would be JJ Watt. Von Miller has no chance at MVP, therefore he's not an MVP candidate.

2. That's what I said. But it makes no difference to Manning if it's Von Miller and a bunch of average guys or 11 good players. The defense as a whole can help him slightly, but a single defensive player means nothing.
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:27 AM    (permalink
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1. No he's not. If any defensive player is going to win it would be JJ Watt. Von Miller has no chance at MVP, therefore he's not an MVP candidate.


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Old 12-27-2012, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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Brady has more passing yards total, more pass yards a game, more long passes, better pass interception % and won the heads up match up. Brady has also a far worse defense. Manning is playing with another MVP candidate Von Miller what other MVP candidate is Brady playing with?
Yards aren't a huge indicator of being better, not when its as close as Brady/Manning. Brady has less than 200 yards more passing, with 47 more attempts. As such, he has more pass yards per game, a whopping 13 more a game.
Manning completes a higher percentage of his passes, has a higher YPA(Althoguh they are pretty much the same), and has 2 more TD passes with 3 more INT's.
While Manning has a better defense, Brady has better players on offense.

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I just don't really see any wins that are that impressive to this point in the season. Their 2 best wins come against slumping teams that were both in losing streaks and really aren't that great to begin with. They were handled by the 3 best teams on their schedule, and have essentially played 3 teams that had some semblance of a chance against them since week 5. Not saying that the Broncos record isn't impressive because it's hard to stay focused and not drop an easy one, it's just that I don't really think the 1 game difference is something that should give Manning a definitive edge over Brady or Rodgers.
The Broncos were "handled" in their losses? The same team trying to find an identity and get in sync with new players? A couple stops away from possibly winning those games by the way. Like it has been stated, the Broncos were careless with the ball early on and seem to be much better of late in that regards. Twice they fumbled in the red zone against the Pats, 4 turnovers in the 1st quarter vs. the Falcons, costly defensive miscues vs. the Texans.
You are taking for granted the Broncos have pretty much slaughtered everybody except KC since they started their winning streak. The Pats almost lost to the Jaguars last week, its hard to maintain this high level of play for this long without a slip up. I just think given what Manning has done to the Broncos, he is more deserving of say Brady or Rodgers this year.
My main vote would go to Adrian Peterson if he does get the Vikings somehow to the playoffs.
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