Poll: Rookie of the Year (week 16)

[jsagan77]

Uhhhh, context much?

Against Cincy he had a great game. He kept fighting but the D could not stop them at all. It's hard to score 30 against their rock solid D. The only team to have done so w/o help from D or ST TD's are the Ravens and they eclipsed 40 due to a Ed Reed int td. The, Skins (rob jackson int for TD), Bronco's (return TD) and the Browns (due to a sheldon Brown INT for a TD) have been the only teams to eclipse the 30 point mark. But that was one of RG3's best games.

Against Tampa, he made a comeback and got the win.

Against the Steelers, he had something like 11 drops? He was throwing darts all over the field but his receivers couldn't get the job done, it was quite possibly the most embarrassing display of receiving I've ever seen out of a group.

The Carolina game was much of the same. Dropsies and penalties killed us, not Griff. He actually threw a TD to Hankerson to set up a 2pt try to tie it late, but a penalty negated it.

Maybe watching the games before you comment next time? Just a thought.

And remember Garcon was hurt for most of these games and Davis got hurt in the Steelers game (iirc). Could you imagine the excuses for Luck if he had to throw to Paulsen, Morgan and Hankerson, and Moss? The internet would explode and there wouldn't be any tissues left.

Originally Posted by Trogdor

The most attempts by RG3 in one game: 39, in a 21-13 loss to the Panthers in Week 9. He's thrown the ball more than 30 times in just four games, with the team going 1-3.

Interesting. So when the Redskins need him to step up and become the focal point of the offense rather than the running game they win 25% of the time. I wonder what the comparison to Wilson and Luck looks like?

Wilson: 1-2 in games with 30+ attempts.

Luck: 8-4 in games with 30+ attempts.

Huh? So when Wilson and RGIII are forced to throw the ball more than 30 times (NFL average) a game they win less than a third of those games. Luck by comparison wins two out of three in that scenario.

[jsagan77]

So just to sum this up (from another site)

Through week 16:

QB Rating:
RG3 104.1
Luck 75.6

Completion percentage:
RG3 66%
Luck 54%

Average yards per pass:
RG3 8.27 (#1 in the NFL)
Luck 6.98

Touchdown/Interception ratio:
RG3 20/5
Luck 21/18

Rushing Touchdowns
RG3 6
Luck 5

Passing Yards:
RG3 3,100
Luck 4,183

Touchdowns per pass:
RG3 throws a touchdown every 18 passes
Luck throws a touchdown every 28 passes

Interceptions per pass:
RG3 throws an interception every 75 passes
Luck throws an interception every 33 passes

Total offensive points scored:
Redskins 408 (4th in NFL)
Colts 329 (18th in NFL)

Points per game:
Redskins 27.2
Colts 21.9

Outside of total passing yards, RG3 and the Redskins are ahead of the Colts in every single offensive statistic.

...

Yes, Griffin's running game gives him an advantage, but the Redskins god awful defense offsets that. The Redskins have 3 games where they scored OVER 23 points and still lost. The Colts have scored UNDER 23 points 5 times this season and still won.

[FUNBUNCHER]

I can't wait to see the potential matchup between the Seahawks and Redskins in the first round of the playoffs.

But I am man enough to admit the Seahawks D looks a little scary.

[JRTPlaya21]

I hope we avoid the Seahawks. They always give us fits when we match up in the playoffs.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

Yes, Griffin's running game gives him an advantage, but the Redskins god awful defense offsets that. The Redskins have 3 games where they scored OVER 23 points and still lost. The Colts have scored UNDER 23 points 5 times this season and still won.

misleading. the redskins, on the season, have given up one less point than indy, and only 111 more yards. it's unbelievable how much worse one defense is than the other. denver must have the worst defense in the league, they only lose games when they put up at least 21! unless, of course, you're implying that two points makes all the difference and wasn't some arbitrary, meaningless cutoff?

twist it however you'd like: there were three games where your offense couldn't put enough points on the board to win. there were 5 games in which indy's offense could. clearly, your offense is garbage.

[jsagan77]

Again, looking at averages in a Vaccuum NJX... The Skins D for much of the year was on pace to give up 5000 yards passing (the worst in history). They've locked it down over the last few weeks but the first 3/4 of the year they were terrible and you can't make a case that the Colts D was better during that time.

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

I can't wait to see the potential matchup between the Seahawks and Redskins in the first round of the playoffs.

But I am man enough to admit the Seahawks D looks a little scary.

They take PED's so they should look scary... lol

[Caulibflower]

Comment deleted - had the wrong thread open.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

Again, looking at averages in a Vaccuum NJX... The Skins D for much of the year was on pace to give up 5000 yards passing (the worst in history). They've locked it down over the last few weeks but the first 3/4 of the year they were terrible and you can't make a case that the Colts D was better during that time.

cite it.

i like, however, that the numbers can be twisted to your advantage at will (again, what's with the 23 point nonsense?), however whenever it's been pointed out, there's something about 'numbers in a vacuum' or some equally un-qualifiable criteria that's not really responsive. 'numbers in a vacuum' would be the implication that box scores are all that matter, for instance, not 'don't call me out for choosing the 2 numbers that make me look better.'

both teams have bottom 10 defenses. it's dishonest to act like indy has been riding a top 5 defense, while you've had the 32nd ranked defense, when that's verifiably untrue.

[bucfan12]

Luck took the 2-14 Indianapolis Colts to the Playoffs and a 10 win season. He took a team that had so many holes going into the 2012 offseason, and still do, as their defense was atrocious as well as the offense.

Then, their Head Coach, Chuck Pagano, which is a great story recovering from leukemia, had to take a leave back at the end of September. It's not an easy process to go through losing your head coach during the season. And also to note: Chuck Pagano is a true inspiration and I admire that man for never getting down and keeping his spirits up. #Chuckstrong.

Andrew Luck is one of those rare players and I think it's no question: Best Rookie in 2012.

[Bob Sanders Dreadlock]

Paraphrased from a colts website..

-Most yards in a season by a rookie with 4,183 (Newton, 4,051)
-Most attempts in a season by a rookie with 599 (Bradford, 593)
-Tied an NFL RECORD for most game-winning drives in the fourth quarter or overtime with 7. This broke the previous -rookie record held by Ben Roethlisberger (5) in 2004.
Most "wins" in a season by a rookie QB drafted No. 1 overall. Which usually is the worst team in the league from the previous season

"RG3 has given the Redskins a +3 in the win column from last year to this year. Meanwhile, the Seahawks can win potentially 11 games this year. Wilson has started every game, which means he would give Seattle a +4. Luck helped the Colts to +8, and it could be +9 if Indy beat Houston on Sunday.

Of the 26 NFL quarterbacks who have started at least 12 games this year, the two with the fewest passing attempts are RG3 and Wilson. Eagles quarterback Michael Vick sits right behind Wilson in attempts at 319. Vick has only played in 9 games. Both combined are 2-5 when they fling it more than 30 times a game."

Redskins and seahawks both have backs that ran for 1400+ yards. Colts leading rusher has over 700 yards and 1 touchdown.

Luck is having an all time great season.

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2012/12/...-and-heres-why

[Brodeur]

Turnovers are a bad thing, and he has 23 of them. He's improved the team sure, but he isn't a demigod and the team around him is spectacularly lucky.

[Bob Sanders Dreadlock]

Originally Posted by Brodeur

Turnovers are a bad thing, and he has 23 of them. He's improved the team sure, but he isn't a demigod and the team around him is spectacularly lucky.

Turnovers are a good thing too!

Redskins are 10th in defensive TOs with 28, 18 INTs and 10 fumble recoveries
Seahawks are 5th in defensive TOs with 30, 17 picks and 13 FRs
The Colts are next-to-last in the league with only 13 total turnovers

[FUNBUNCHER]

Luck still has more turnovers than TDs.
I just don't like the argument that Luck has turned around a team that was 'historically' bad in 2011.

The Colts only won two games last season because they didn't have even an adequate backup on the bench behind Peyton Manning. There's this mythology that their entire roster was the most pathetic collection of players in the NFL.

And the point I think jsagan is making about Indy's defense in comparison to the SKins is that Washington's pass D is a nightmare. In most games if the Skins didn't score 24 points, they had very little to no chance of winning.

Unless RGIII has a near flawless game against the Cowboys, I think the player narrative favors Luck. 1/1 selection, led a 2 win team back to the playoffs and 10(+) wins. Set the rookie record for passing yardage.
That's it. I don't think most people are going to crunch his stats anymore than that.

Nonetheless I still think what RGIII has done is the more difficult lift. Having to basically win the division to make the playoffs and (possibly)going 3-1 against the Dallas/NYG, one of whom is the defending SB champs (before the wheels came off at the end of the season) for a franchise that hasn't won the NFCE in 16 years(just know this assumes the Skins put the smack down on the Cowboys this Sunday), I just think Griffin's rookie year has been more impressive.

In any other year Wilson/RGIII/Luck win this award in a sweep. I don't think this have ever really happened before with three rookie QBs, which is why I try not to get bent out of shape when others argue for someone not named Griffin.

The Colts made the playoffs because of Luck, not in spite of him. Same goes for Wilson, and hopefully Grif too.

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by njx9

cite it.

i like, however, that the numbers can be twisted to your advantage at will (again, what's with the 23 point nonsense?), however whenever it's been pointed out, there's something about 'numbers in a vacuum' or some equally un-qualifiable criteria that's not really responsive. 'numbers in a vacuum' would be the implication that box scores are all that matter, for instance, not 'don't call me out for choosing the 2 numbers that make me look better.'

both teams have bottom 10 defenses. it's dishonest to act like indy has been riding a top 5 defense, while you've had the 32nd ranked defense, when that's verifiably untrue.

And when have I ever said that Indy has a great D? All I've said is the Redskins secondary has been historcially bad.

It’s been pretty well discussed to date, but I’m not sure enough people are talking about how putrid the Redskins passing defense is.

Article from 25 October...

http://www.redskinsgab.com/2012/10/2...ctane-defense/

"This pass defense isn’t bad; it’s historically bad. It’s actually on pace to allow 5,255 net passing yards, which would make it the worst pass defense that the NFL has ever seen. Ever."


http://www.realredskins.com/rich-tan...s-defense.html

"As you may have heard, the Redskins are on pace to give up over 5,000 passing yards this year. That would top the NFL record of 4,796 yards the Packers gave up last year. Even allowing for differences in rules that have made passing easier, that is quite an embarrassing performance."


We've miraculously have gone from giving up ~328 to ~287. I guess playing holding down Eli, Flacco, Foles and Weeden (at least some what) caused the shift. Now the Saints and Bucs seem to be on pace to crush that record..

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock

Turnovers are a good thing too!

Redskins are 10th in defensive TOs with 28, 18 INTs and 10 fumble recoveries
Seahawks are 5th in defensive TOs with 30, 17 picks and 13 FRs
The Colts are next-to-last in the league with only 13 total turnovers

That's definitely one thing this unit has done well this year and that's get turnovers at critical times.

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by njx9

cite it.

i like, however, that the numbers can be twisted to your advantage at will (again, what's with the 23 point nonsense?), however whenever it's been pointed out, there's something about 'numbers in a vacuum' or some equally un-qualifiable criteria that's not really responsive. 'numbers in a vacuum' would be the implication that box scores are all that matter, for instance, not 'don't call me out for choosing the 2 numbers that make me look better.'

both teams have bottom 10 defenses. it's dishonest to act like indy has been riding a top 5 defense, while you've had the 32nd ranked defense, when that's verifiably untrue.

That's funny, I don't need to twist numbers, the luck huggers do. Most attempts by a rookie in a season, LIKE THATS A GOOD THING!?!? Of course he's going to get the passing record, isn't that obvious? Then they have to dig for stuff like Most wins by a first over all pick ever!! Well golly gee RG3 would have broken that record too! Why doesn't he have a number of TD's comesurate with his amount of passes and yards if he's that damn good? Blame the run game, blame the coach, blame everything but the one guy who is ultimately responsible for his own production and his own career. Blame Luck. He's only given a pass because he played a cupcake schedule and pulled out a bunch of games (which I completely see the comebacks as a negative) but I'm sure people won't understand why and I'll have to spend 10 days explaining it and still no one will agree with it cause (never mind too exhausting.)

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by Brodeur

Turnovers are a bad thing, and he has 23 of them. He's improved the team sure, but he isn't a demigod and the team around him is spectacularly lucky.

Did the Colts hang onto Reggie Wayne, Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Adam Vinitiri because they were planning on rebuilding/sucking this year?

No.

They knew their division was crappy enough they could easily take 2nd in it, and they knew that this was a perennial playoff team that just happened to have one terrible year because of the QB problem.

They quit in October and tanked for Luck.

[Bob Sanders Dreadlock]

Originally Posted by J-Mike88

Did the Colts hang onto Reggie Wayne, Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Adam Vinitiri because they were planning on rebuilding/sucking this year?

No.

They knew their division was crappy enough they could easily take 2nd in it, and they knew that this was a perennial playoff team that just happened to have one terrible year because of the QB problem.

They quit in October and tanked for Luck.

Quit in December eh? Remind me what happened in Foxborough on 12/04/11. They won 2 out of their last 3 nearly jeopardizing their so called "suck for luck". Nothing you say can ever be taken seriously and you lack any ounce of credibility.

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock

Quit in December eh? Remind me what happened in Foxborough on 12/04/11. They won 2 out of their last 3 nearly jeopardizing their so called "suck for luck". Nothing you say can ever be taken seriously and you lack any ounce of credibility.

Who said December?
Who typed December?
You can't read.

I said they quit by October, much sooner than December.
They were 0-13 and laid down and died.

What's your point anyway?
You trying to discredit Wayne, Mathis, Freeney and everyone else to say Luck is personally responsible for +8 wins?

[Bob Sanders Dreadlock]

Originally Posted by J-Mike88

Who said December?
Who typed December?
You can't read.

I said they quit by October, much sooner than December.
They were 0-13 and laid down and died.

What's your point anyway?
You trying to discredit Wayne, Mathis, Freeney and everyone else to say Luck is personally responsible for +8 wins?

Thank you for proving my point. If thry quit all the way back in October what business did they have nearly beating the patriots? Why did they win 2 of their last 3 games if they were attempting to suck? Freeney has looked confused all year. Wayne is having one of his best seasons ever thanks to luck.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

That's funny, I don't need to twist numbers, the luck huggers do. Most attempts by a rookie in a season, LIKE THATS A GOOD THING!?!? Of course he's going to get the passing record, isn't that obvious? Then they have to dig for stuff like Most wins by a first over all pick ever!! Well golly gee RG3 would have broken that record too! Why doesn't he have a number of TD's comesurate with his amount of passes and yards if he's that damn good? Blame the run game, blame the coach, blame everything but the one guy who is ultimately responsible for his own production and his own career. Blame Luck. He's only given a pass because he played a cupcake schedule and pulled out a bunch of games (which I completely see the comebacks as a negative) but I'm sure people won't understand why and I'll have to spend 10 days explaining it and still no one will agree with it cause (never mind too exhausting.)

brilliant. "it wasn't me! it was them! seriously!" again, utterly non-responsive.

i'm also not sure why you felt the need to quote twice, but whatever.

the skins passing d was only bad through week 7, not the first 3/4 of the year (not even 1/2 of the season). and even taking into account their "historic, worst possible season ever," indy has only been 100 total yards better over the season. your defense is simply not, in any meaningful way, demonstrably worse than the colts'.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

Oh geezus :* is it commedy day in here?

Someone call up the NFL we have the best qb analyst ever on the board. Where were you a few weeks ago with your amazing analysis? The bandwagon shift on this board is second to none.

That's cute. Redskin fans always get cute when their team doesn't suck. I almost forgot how ******* annoying it is.

If youre gonna keep dishing out blowjobs to RGIII, you might as well ask him to put a ring on it.

[JRTPlaya21]

Hey now BBD let's not lump us all under that same umbrella lol. I'm still one of the sane Redskins fans on this board.

[21ST]

Originally Posted by JRTPlaya21

Hey now BBD let's not lump us all under that same umbrella lol. I'm still one of the sane Redskins fans on this board.

He's a giants fan he don't know any better smh.