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Old 10-12-2010, 07:26 PM    (permalink
bucfan12
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We're talking about a rookie DT who has played 4 games this year. If teams like the Vkings judged Kevin Williams on the rest of his career after 4 games, they would regret it. Same thing with Sapp, who took 3 YEARS to become the player he was.

McCoy is having his struggles, but he is also showing the reason why he was picked at #3 overall. He has already drawn respect of o-lines from day 1 being doubled and some times triple teams. It also doesn't help him that our DE's are back up material and can't win 1 on 1 match ups. DT's and DE take some time and yeah, some develop quicker than others, but others take a year or 2. Mario Williams, #1 pick in 2006, everyone booed the pick and had a 6.5 sack rookie year. How much would fans and the Texans regret if they judged him on 1 year? Look at him now.
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Old 10-14-2010, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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Ignore the troll....McCoy looks great. I saw one play against Cincinnati where he slipped around the LG right at the snap with a nice quick step and arm maneuver. He didn't get the sack but he got a key pressure.

I'm very happy with his progress. We can revisit this subject in a year when McCoy has a full year of experience and hopefully a good edge rushing counterpart. He's gonna be a key fixture for this team for a long time.

He hasn't been dominant in run defense but he hasn't been a problem either. Run defense is a team effort and we need better fills from our LBs and safeties.
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Old 11-13-2010, 07:26 AM    (permalink
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We're talking about a rookie DT who has played 4 games this year. If teams like the Vkings judged Kevin Williams on the rest of his career after 4 games, they would regret it. Same thing with Sapp, who took 3 YEARS to become the player he was.

McCoy is having his struggles, but he is also showing the reason why he was picked at #3 overall. He has already drawn respect of o-lines from day 1 being doubled and some times triple teams. It also doesn't help him that our DE's are back up material and can't win 1 on 1 match ups. DT's and DE take some time and yeah, some develop quicker than others, but others take a year or 2. Mario Williams, #1 pick in 2006, everyone booed the pick and had a 6.5 sack rookie year. How much would fans and the Texans regret if they judged him on 1 year? Look at him now.

Sapp had 3 sacks and one interception return for a TD at the same stage of his rookie year where McCoy has had ZERO sacks and few tackles for loss. McCoy was not a late 1st rounder, he was the #3 overall pick... and that is a place a player is drafted where players are expected to contribute and produce immediately. Tyson Alualu has had far better production than McCoy and I viewed him as more of a late 1st rounder.

On top of that, as many double teams as McCoy has supposedly received, the defense is significantly worse at this point than it was during the last 6 games of last season when we had Ryan Sims and Chriv Hovan starting for us. We also had far better pressure (with the same DE's-White, Moore, and Crowder on the field) but with the main difference being McCoy.
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Old 11-13-2010, 07:31 AM    (permalink
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Ignore the troll....McCoy looks great. I saw one play against Cincinnati where he slipped around the LG right at the snap with a nice quick step and arm maneuver. He didn't get the sack but he got a key pressure.

I'm very happy with his progress. We can revisit this subject in a year when McCoy has a full year of experience and hopefully a good edge rushing counterpart. He's gonna be a key fixture for this team for a long time.

He hasn't been dominant in run defense but he hasn't been a problem either. Run defense is a team effort and we need better fills from our LBs and safeties.
Wow, you recall a play where he got a pressure! A freaking pressure? And I'm a troll... yet I've yet to be proven wrong here, but you resort to namecalling because I rehash the facts that I presented long ago that are unfortunately coming into fruition.

I recall a couple plays against Arizona where McCoy was not double teamed and got ragdolled by the OG on several occasions. The guy has a decent first step, but rarely any countermoves once his first attempt is foiled.

Granted, I feel he played his best game last weekend against Atlanta, particularly against the run and I have hope that McCoy will someday make me eat my words so I can happily come back on here and state that I was wrong about him all along... that day still seems far away.
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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Wow, you recall a play where he got a pressure! A freaking pressure? And I'm a troll... yet I've yet to be proven wrong here, but you resort to namecalling because I rehash the facts that I presented long ago that are unfortunately coming into fruition.

I recall a couple plays against Arizona where McCoy was not double teamed and got ragdolled by the OG on several occasions. The guy has a decent first step, but rarely any countermoves once his first attempt is foiled.

Granted, I feel he played his best game last weekend against Atlanta, particularly against the run and I have hope that McCoy will someday make me eat my words so I can happily come back on here and state that I was wrong about him all along... that day still seems far away.
Dude are you serious? McCoy hasn't even played a full season yet. And If I remember correctly, our pass defense was terrible last year too. White, once named the starter, really didn't do much. He is a situational pass rusher that comes off the bench.

McCoy is aggressive and has a motor and I will admit, needs to get a bit stronger to handle the CONSISTENT double teams he faces. But, for being the only true threat on that D-line, he receives constant attention by o-lines.

And seriously dude, your comparing last year to this year? I've watched game tapes this year and I'll tell you this, our DE's are flat out terrible. White and Moore get OWNED 99% of the time in one on one match ups against Tackles. Usually when a DT draws a double team, they should be able to beat the tackles 1 on 1. That is how you know that Moore and White are back up material.
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Old 11-23-2010, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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This past week's game was a nice start to hopefully proving me wrong. I would much rather be wrong (for a change) in evaluating a player I thought would bust than have our defense continue to be terrible. Go Bucs, go McCoy! He played ok two weeks ago and played very well last week. This week against the Ravens will be a good test to see if our young D is really coming around.
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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He's been playing very well all season. A lack of sacks wasn't a fair representation of the effect he has been having on the defense.
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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I love how you pretend like you hope you're wrong about McCoy yet you don't even give him credit for how he's played this year. He's been at least "OK" for the whole year and he's been playing well for at least the past 3 weeks.

He's been getting constant penetration and has been our most consistent run defender in terms of anchoring and standing up the C/G. We haven't had a DT even close to his caliber and athleticism since Sapp.
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Old 11-24-2010, 05:25 AM    (permalink
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I love how you pretend like you hope you're wrong about McCoy yet you don't even give him credit for how he's played this year. He's been at least "OK" for the whole year and he's been playing well for at least the past 3 weeks.

He's been getting constant penetration and has been our most consistent run defender in terms of anchoring and standing up the C/G. We haven't had a DT even close to his caliber and athleticism since Sapp.
Pretend? I'm sure I've stated numerous times that I hoped I was wrong about McCoy... as for him being "constantly in the backfield"... he played like crap against Arizona, getting rag-dolled numerous times, and other times he was invisible. Sure, he made occasional penetration at other times this season, but it wasn't until the last Carolina game that he would start to consistently flash and not until this past week that he actually looked like a possible good player... now he has to keep it up... even Hovan and Sims have had good games for the Bucs. Hopefully he can and the Bucs can keep winning.

Do you really think I would hope for no success for my team? I am the one that predicted the Bucs would win 9-10 games before the season started, you can't win games when the team completely sucks.
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:05 AM    (permalink
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Bump this ****. Just went through and re-read all the posts slamming me for claiming McCoy wouldn't be anywhere close to elite due to lack of explosion, work ethic, etc. His work ethic has been okay, but he's only been a little above average at this point in his career. He has been invisible rushing the passer in most games this season. He has been a major disappointment thus far and he needs to step it up and start living up to his ridiculous contract. Good against the run, below average rushing the passer. Not top 5 material.

ETK, BucFan12, Caddy, etc... eat it! If McCoy has turned out to be the player you thought he would be then you had some seriously low expectations. You don't pay a guy top 5 (old draft money) to be a good run stopper.
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:07 AM    (permalink
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We're talking about a rookie DT who has played 4 games this year. If teams like the Vkings judged Kevin Williams on the rest of his career after 4 games, they would regret it. Same thing with Sapp, who took 3 YEARS to become the player he was.

McCoy is having his struggles, but he is also showing the reason why he was picked at #3 overall. He has already drawn respect of o-lines from day 1 being doubled and some times triple teams. It also doesn't help him that our DE's are back up material and can't win 1 on 1 match ups. DT's and DE take some time and yeah, some develop quicker than others, but others take a year or 2. Mario Williams, #1 pick in 2006, everyone booed the pick and had a 6.5 sack rookie year. How much would fans and the Texans regret if they judged him on 1 year? Look at him now.
I liked the Williams pick... but let's look at him now... LOL classic quote from you. I think his career must've tanked the moment you said this.
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:19 AM    (permalink
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Brasho whatever gets you off at night.

McCoy has had a very good season this year. Sure the sack numbers aren't where they'd be but not having a threat at DE has been a problem as soon as Clayborn went down McCoy wasn't getting the sacks (3 in first 3 games). He still is consistantly in the backfield and makes plays that do not show up on the stat sheet.

Also the last 2 years without him were last in the league in run defense. With him #1.

I will say you aren't completely right nor wrong. I'd like to see him get double digit sacks but this year he's been the anchor of our dline.
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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Brasho whatever gets you off at night.

McCoy has had a very good season this year. Sure the sack numbers aren't where they'd be but not having a threat at DE has been a problem as soon as Clayborn went down McCoy wasn't getting the sacks (3 in first 3 games). He still is consistantly in the backfield and makes plays that do not show up on the stat sheet.

Also the last 2 years without him were last in the league in run defense. With him #1.

I will say you aren't completely right nor wrong. I'd like to see him get double digit sacks but this year he's been the anchor of our dline.
Bennett has been our best DL... McCoy has been our best DT... but that's not saying a ton. As I stated before, he's good against the run... but a large percentage of the time (he got 80% of his sacks against the terrible OLs of the Cowboys and Eagles) he is invisible when rushing the passer (Giants, Broncos, Saints, Falcons).. I am mean it was like he literally was not there.

Does it get me off at night? If that's the sick thought you want to have there's nothing I can do... but let's face it, he hasn't been close to elite, other than for 3 games in his entire career (rookie season against Ravens, Cowboys, and Eagles).

Warren Sapp was an elite DT, he was a force in games where he barely registered a tackle. He was a major force even the years BEFORE he had DE help (Simeon Rice)... unless you thought Regan Upshaw, Marcus Jones, Chidi Ahanotu, and Tyoka Jackson were forces out there on the edge.

Gerald McCoy was supposed to be the vital cog to the DL, making all those around him better. He hasn't done that.

Oh, and as usual your numbers are way off. We weren't without him for two years... yes, it may have seemed like we didn't have him for two years. He played 13 games his first season and when he left that season we didn't miss a beat. The next year, however, could be used as proof that he was a difference maker. That being said, Reggie White couldn't have stopped last season's slide.

At least this season he has proven he isn't a big China doll.
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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I still hope I'm wrong about him, but right now the needle seems to be leaning heavily towards not nearly living up to his lofty draft and contract status.
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Old 12-23-2012, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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I'm not arguing with you. He needs to starting finishing plays and generating sacks. But he's been stout against the run all year. I wouldn't say you were completely right about him. He does a lot

E
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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I still hope I'm wrong about him, but right now the needle seems to be leaning heavily towards not nearly living up to his lofty draft and contract status.
I think pro bowler is living up to the hype in year 3. What do u think brasho? Because the coaches all turned the film on and selected him as a top DT. Not the fans, Coaches.

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Old 12-27-2012, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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I think pro bowler is living up to the hype in year 3. What do u think brasho? Because the coaches all turned the film on and selected him as a top DT. Not the fans, Coaches.
Seriously? You think being selected as the backup DT, behind Henry Melton and Justin Smith (how is he a DT?) proves anything other than how pathetic the DTs in the NFC are? Beyond the fact that it's a meaningless game that for some reason people still try to attach meaning to, it's a popularity contest, plain and simple. Why do you suppose Suh isn't in there? Not because he's not better than McCoy, he's just hated. Every opposing team loves McCoy. He's nice, courteous, he stops the run, but he won't hurt anybody's QB.

This proves absolutely nothing. Players with seasons far worse than McCoy have made the Pro Bowl, some were even voted in as starters.

Didn't Trent Dilfer make a Pro Bowl for the Bucs? I think it was 1997. Hell, Tony Mayberry and Derrick Brooks both made Pro Bowls, played in the game, didn't get injured and then wanted to play in the NFL the following year and still couldn't get a shot.

Jeff Saturday of the Colts is the starter at center for the Broncos... uhhhh, he's not even the starter on his own team... so tell me again, what does McCoy making the Pro Bowl prove? McCoy made it, yet Vincent Jackson and Doug Martin were left out (and Barber). Both (or perhaps even all three) candidates were more deserving and had more to do with the team's wins and almost wins as McCoy. He's a good run stopper, but a complete non-factor as a pass rusher far too often.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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This was stated by Ian Beckles on his radio show AFTER I brought this up again:

Quote:
Direct Rage At The Pass Rush, Coaching
December 26th, 2012
Former Bucs guard Ian Beckles hears the pitchforks sharpening for Josh Freeman, and Beckles says that’s understandable but somewhat misguided.

Speaking on his morning show on WDAE-AM 620 today, Beckles says the Bucs’ pass rush consistently has been the worst in the NFL this year (30th with 25 sacks) and deserves fans’ ire. Beckles says some of that is coaching but defensive captain Gerald McCoy is the core of the problem.

“McCoy had three good games early and he beat up the Eagles lousy right guard,” Beckles said. “I’m going to have everybody tell me McCoy is good when he only shows up for four weeks? Our leaders have to have attitude. He has to be hitting the quarterback. Our leader has to make plays.”

Beckles said, yes, it matters that McCoy is earning boatload of cash.

On the coaching front, Beckles said Rams linebacker James Laurinaitis’ comments about tells in the Bucs offense is further evidence that the Bucs offense is “vanilla and predictable.” Beckles also went on a rampage about the Bucs passing on 3rd-and-1 Sunday late in the third quarter on the Rams’ 5 yard line and trailing 28-13. And then following that up with a failed quarterback sneak. Beckles says Greg Schiano has no right to call his Bucs a physical smashmouth team, just like Raheem Morris used to claim.

Among other darts tossed around the roster, Beckles claims Dallas Clark has been a bust. “I haven’t seen him catch a pass all year without someone draped all over him. He’s lost a step or two,” Beckles said.

Freeman deserves another season but no fan can claim Freeman is improving, Beckles said.
http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=80850

That's scary, every point he made, I've already made on here... scary because I don't particularly care for Beckles... I still think he's reading the Bucs draftcountdown Bucs forum and just swiping my beliefs.. well, maybe not.,,, but if he were, he could certainly do far worse, right bucfan12?
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:35 PM    (permalink
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Meh. McCoy has been great this year.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:24 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by brasho View Post
This was stated by Ian Beckles on his radio show AFTER I brought this up again:



http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=80850

That's scary, every point he made, I've already made on here... scary because I don't particularly care for Beckles... I still think he's reading the Bucs draftcountdown Bucs forum and just swiping my beliefs.. well, maybe not.,,, but if he were, he could certainly do far worse, right bucfan12?
Seriously? Ian beckles? I also believe he was shut up by several analysts and scouts after he started his rants on McCoy. McCoy doesn't have the popularity factor with the fans. The tape showed he was disruptive and consistently penetrating te backfield. He's the anchor to the defensive line.

Criticize all you want. The film doesn't lie. Just think if McCoy had a bit more help with an outside pass rush or more depth. He led te league in snaps played for dlineman
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:33 AM    (permalink
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If you wanna listen to morons like Ian beckles or Steve deumig go ahead cthey both said josh freeman was having a better season than RG III and Andrew luck bc of the td pass statistic. I LOL on that one. Guess who's leading their team to playoffs as rookies? LOL.
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Old 12-28-2012, 06:05 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
The more conventional 4-3 DT spots are taken by a pair of young players with Gerald McCoy finally on the field and able to show the extraordinary blend of speed and power that had the Buccaneers so excited back in 2010. He has excelled with unnerving consistency against both run and pass irrespective of the players lining up across from him.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...er-2012-nfc/2/

Oh and that was before his selection.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:31 AM    (permalink
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Obviously, you don't understand my point. Good against the run, usually nonexistent as a pass rusher. Is he living up to his draft status? Is he playing as well as his contract says he should? Is he dominating as you and others have said? Is his giant contract justifiable for a run stopper? The answer to all of these questions is "Hell NO!" You know it, he knows it, everybody knows it. By his 3rd season, according to the "experts" and fanboys alike, he was supposed to be an All-Pro, not the backup Pro Bowl DT for the extremely weak group of NFC DTs. So weak in fact that they voted a 3-4 DE at DT over him (Justin Smith) while JJ Watt is the starting DE for the AFC. The truth is that McCoy isn't elite and isn't close to being elite at this time. Nobody can argue otherwise. Disruptive? At times. Stops the run? Usually very well. Rush the passer? Occasionally Takes over a game? Never Finishes plays? Sometimes.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:57 AM    (permalink
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I feel like we are watching different players.
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:29 AM    (permalink
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I feel like we are watching different players.
Yepp. 100% agreed.
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