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Old 12-27-2012, 11:46 PM    (permalink
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Fab maybe should get a shot, but the real reason he isn't being brought up is not because they want to give him "legit minutes". He just blows; probably worse than Collins who is (possibly was, I haven't seen much Celts this year) a borderline elite defender as long as he plays limited minutes.

This reeks of the C's trying to protect his fragile psyche more than anything. When have you heard of a struggling NBA team actually not playing someone they think is better than a current player just so said player can get "legit minutes"? Never. I call ********.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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Jason Collins is not anywhere near an elite defender at this point. He kills offense, has nothing to offer in terms of help defense and lateral mobility, and is a questionable rebounder. Fab is not great, and I get that it's the D-League, but rebounding is something that translate through pretty much every level of basketball.

And I mean, the guy has 23 blocks in his last two games. 23.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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Collins could have fallen off hard defensively, but he graded out really, really well last year if I remember correctly. I just think Fab sucks. Didn't like him in the draft; don't like him more than Collins now. You definitely have seen more Celtics than me, but NBA teams don't generally leave talented players in the D league while they are free falling.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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Collins could have fallen off hard defensively, but he graded out really, really well last year if I remember correctly. I just think Fab sucks. Didn't like him in the draft; don't like him more than Collins now. You definitely have seem more Celtics than me, but NBA don't generally leave talented players in the D league while they are free falling.
All I know is, watching Jason Collins not get rebounds, and not provide any presence around the rim while Jet is getting blown by repeatedly on defense... Something has to give. Fab can at least run on the break and provide some kind of shot blocking ability.

And grab a rebound or two.

Also, how sad are the Celtics that we are actually debating Collins vs Melo. ****.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:04 AM    (permalink
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Alright I love the Blazers and everything, but am I the only one who is just completely enamored by the Nets? Everything they've done in Prokorhov's tenure, especially the Jay-Z inclusion, just feels very dynamic. I wish Portland could be as exciting. Maybe I'm alone.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:07 AM    (permalink
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Meh, I like the Nets moving to Brooklyn because their tickets are still cheap and I am (kind of) walking distance from Barclays and the atmosphere is solid. I wouldn't describe myself as "enamored" though, I probably wouldn't care at all if I was on the West Coast.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:08 AM    (permalink
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I'm in Ohio, so I think I appreciate the East Coast theatrics.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:29 AM    (permalink
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we're trying to build a new fanbase so it's really cool to see everyone trying so hard and stuff in the organization.

also, Jason Collins has NEVER gotten rebounds. Ever. When he started with the nets in their good times, Jason Kidd out rebounded him. Think about that.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:31 AM    (permalink
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we're trying to build a new fanbase so it's really cool to see everyone trying so hard and stuff in the organization.

also, Jason Collins has NEVER gotten rebounds. Ever. When he started with the nets in their good times, Jason Kidd out rebounded him. Think about that.
Collins never has put up any stats really. Except really good defensive metrics.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:03 AM    (permalink
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Been away from here for like a week.

So we almost beat the Knicks at MSG without Love. Do people still think I'm crazy for being critical of him?
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:07 AM    (permalink
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Been away from here for like a week.

So we almost beat the Knicks at MSG without Love. Do people still think I'm crazy for being critical of him?
You said Rubio was better than him, right?
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:23 AM    (permalink
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oh i know he never got stats and we only had him for his D, which used to be FANTASTIC. now he's old and stuff so I can see his D deteriorating
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:26 AM    (permalink
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oh i know he never got stats and we only had him for his D, which used to be FANTASTIC. now he's old and stuff so I can see his D deteriorating
He was great last year with the Hawks, so I doubt he could have fallen off too hard. Maybe that's the case though.....I haven't seen enough of the C's to comment.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:39 AM    (permalink
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You said Rubio was better than him, right?
Not better right now, but I said that in the long-term Rubio is more important.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:41 AM    (permalink
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Not better right now, but I said that in the long-term Rubio is more important.
Meh. I suppose you can twist the "important" word anyway you wish if you assume Love will be leaving. As long as Love remains in Minny though, he will be your best and most important player.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:46 AM    (permalink
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All I know is, watching Jason Collins not get rebounds, and not provide any presence around the rim while Jet is getting blown by repeatedly on defense... Something has to give. Fab can at least run on the break and provide some kind of shot blocking ability.

And grab a rebound or two.

Also, how sad are the Celtics that we are actually debating Collins vs Melo. ****.
While Collins has always struggled on the boards, he is still good defensively. His increased playing time is really the result of Bass playing horribly so far this year and now Wilcox being out.

In regards to Melo, he is FAR too raw at this point to get any kind of PT. He has racked up some stats the last few games playing against severely undersized D-Leaguers, but he still has a lot to work on in regards to his rotations and general understanding of the game. The guy has the physical tools, but he has only been playing the game for 6 years or so. He has struggled at the D-League level up until the least few games. His development is great, but the stats are really a result of him being bigger and more athletic than everyone else. If you watch the Red Claws highlights this becomes apparent. Playing big time minutes with the Red Claws has already shown to be great for his development, so I really don't see any reason to take him away from that. The fact is, he is far too raw to get major minutes, so let him play 30 MPG and develop in Maine.

Jet's defensive struggles have hurt, but are nothing new. He was brought in to be a spark off the bench and will finally be put in that position when Avery gets back in a week.

The problem with the Celts is flat out inconsistency, not the fact that we aren't playing Fab Melo.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:58 AM    (permalink
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Meh. I suppose you can twist the "important" word anyway you wish if you assume Love will be leaving. As long as Love remains in Minny though, he will be your best and most important player.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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The problem with the Celts is flat out inconsistency, not the fact that we aren't playing Fab Melo.
Clearly, Fab is not turning us around. I just think he offers us more than Jason Collins does at this point. I never said we would be dominating with Fab, just that Jason Collins is done, and should not be playing 20 minutes a game on a team that ALREADY has trouble rebounding.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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Clearly, Fab is not turning us around. I just think he offers us more than Jason Collins does at this point. I never said we would be dominating with Fab, just that Jason Collins is done, and should not be playing 20 minutes a game on a team that ALREADY has trouble rebounding.
Obviously playing Collins 20 mpg isn't optimal, but he's still far superior to Melo in terms of defensive rotations and post defense. Melo wasn't a very good rebounder in college for someone his size and I don't think a few games down in the D-League have changed that. He may be improving, and that's great, but he still is far from ready for any NBA minutes.

The Collins minutes really stem from Bass's heavy struggles and the fact that Wilcox is out. With KG only getting 25-30 mpg, Sully and Bass don't really have the size to play C, so Collins is unfortunately the next best option.

This conversation makes is pretty obvious that Ainge will make a move for someone with size.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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Hey, I lead the Harden charge round these parts. I demand full credit. My point is being immediately validated (who would've thought the regression/progression to the mean would happen so soon and so rapidly?!?!) and I love it. I will give Brody credit because he has been a fellow Harden supporter from the beginning.
Credit for what? You created an entirely different argument to suit your opinions and deflected every single time i called you on it. I said and proved that Mayo was playing better up until that time and there was nothing incorrect about that. Now Mayo is having a bad run and Harden is picking it up.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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Going to see the Magic @ the Wizards tonight! Let's go Orlando!
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:09 PM    (permalink
Wootylicous
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
Credit for what? You created an entirely different argument to suit your opinions and deflected every single time i called you on it. I said and proved that Mayo was playing better up until that time and there was nothing incorrect about that. Now Mayo is having a bad run and Harden is picking it up.
So you would take Harden over Mayo or the other way around ?
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:14 PM    (permalink
MetSox17
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So you would take Harden over Mayo or the other way around ?
I made the argument that up until that point, Mayo was playing better basketball (which he was), on a much more affordable contract. I never discussed next year or five years from now, because that was never the argument in the first place.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Going to see the Magic @ the Wizards tonight! Let's go Orlando!
I'm sorry to hear that, man.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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I made the argument that up until that point, Mayo was playing better basketball (which he was), on a much more affordable contract. I never discussed next year or five years from now, because that was never the argument in the first place.
I'm just asking MS.
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