Andre Johnson/Hall of Fame?

[TACKLE]

Injuries held him back a bit but he has been an elite player at his position for most of his 10 year career. After 10 seasons, #2 all-time in yards per game (behind only Calvin). Still could potentially have a few more high level years ahead of him. I'd put him in over a guy like Andre Reed or Art Monk any day. Y'all are underrating him.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Texans fans just be glad the Lions didn't take AJ instead of Charles Rogers.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Andre Johnson has four seasons of 100+ catches and only 26 TDs total. That's not good enough in this era because the competition at his position is so steep.

It would be the equivalent of projecting Adrian Peterson as a future HOF except there were hypothetically 10 RBs waiting to get in ahead of him who had averaged 14,000 career rushing yards and 120 TDs rushing.

If AD doesn't approach those numbers, he wouldn't be a candidate for the HOF either.

Canton is about numbers. It's not only stats, but for most players it is in some way.

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by ShutDwn

What's his signature play?

^ THAT ^

[molenguinurtle]

Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP

Santana Moss has 8 more career TD's that Andre Johnson, that's the issue.

Damn, I did not know that.
/Thread?

[Ness]

Fantastic receiver. Unfortunately, like someone else mentioned, he doesn't have the resume needed to get into the Hall of Fame. Unless he balls out the next 3 or 4 seasons and has some great numbers to go along with some deep playoff runs and maybe a Super Bowl I don't see him getting in.

[Caddy]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Andre Johnson has four seasons of 100+ catches and only 26 TDs total. That's not good enough in this era because the competition at his position is so steep.

It would be the equivalent of projecting Adrian Peterson as a future HOF except there were hypothetically 10 RBs waiting to get in ahead of him who had averaged 14,000 career rushing yards and 120 TDs rushing.

If AD doesn't approach those numbers, he wouldn't be a candidate for the HOF either.

Canton is about numbers. It's not only stats, but for most players it is in some way.

I kind of disagree about the numbers aspect. If Adrian Peterson blew out his knee and never played a down in the NFL again, I still think he would be a legitimate HoF candidate. He is one of the few players in the NFL who you can watch and be like, yeah that guy is a freak of nature.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by Caddy

I kind of disagree about the numbers aspect. If Adrian Peterson blew out his knee and never played a down in the NFL again, I still think he would be a legitimate HoF candidate. He is one of the few players in the NFL who you can watch and be like, yeah that guy is a freak of nature.

Maybe. But at the same time Bo Jackson isn't in. And Terrell Davis probably won't make it either.

Definitely don't think he would be first ballot if he didn't play another down. Could get in though.

[Caddy]

Originally Posted by Ness

Maybe. But at the same time Bo Jackson isn't in. And Terrell Davis probably won't make it either.

Definitely don't think he would be first ballot if he didn't play another down. Could get in though.

All I said was he would be a 'legitimate hall of fame candidate'.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by Caddy

All I said was he would be a 'legitimate hall of fame candidate'.

Fair enough. It would be an interesting scenario. Peterson will probably have a few more impressive seasons sealing his candidacy anyways.

[Caulibflower]

Originally Posted by Prowler

I don't care about Jimmy Smith in the same way that I don't care about Andre Johnson. Nobody outside of football gurus and local fanbases care. It took Art Monk like a decade to get in, Michael Irvin had to wait, and Jimmy Smith won't sniff it. TO is going to probably have to wait a couple years before he enters. Its not about a lack of exposure, Andre Johnson hasn't done anything. He's not even the dominant player at his position of his era. Fitz, Calvin, Moss, and Reggie Wayne all have better arguments.

Thought you were pitching for Smith somehow. I don't think we're really in disagreement. As TACKLE mentioned, he's had insane YPG averages through his career - he's certainly elite in that respect. It's just the lack of TDs that is hurting him. And to be really honest, I can't quite understand how his touchdown totals have always been so low. It doesn't really make sense given his physical profile and how good he is at everything else. Why hasn't he scored more? That's a legitimate question that could very easily keep him out. It's not like he's been on a bunch of low-scoring teams, even if they haven't been particularly good overall.

Also agree that Fitz, Calvin, Moss and Reggie Wayne are all current players with a better shot at the HOF, and that'll make for a pretty crowded ballot. My gut feeling is that he's good enough to be a Hall of Fame player, but he just is going to have a really hard time winning over the voters when it comes down to it. There've got to be some elite players left out of the Hall, too, for it to have the status that it does.

[Saints-Tigers]

Remember when everyone laughed at me when I said he wasn't as good as some other receivers because he isn't as dominant in the redzone or as a touchdown threat? I was ridiculed. Apology accepted.

I dunno if he gets in, I'd certainly take him over a fair bit of WR's that are in, and the only guys you can say he's undeniably behind in his era (Calvin and Larry) will probably be easy 1st ballot HOFers.

[stlouisfan37]

I think Cris Carter is a perfect example of the player who puts up tremendous numbers but is not in the hall because something is missing. He was fairly pedestrian in the postseason and wasn't always the most productive receiver on his team. He has been kept out of the HOF despite catching 130 touchdowns, and I think the HOF committee is sending a very strong message: if you want in, you need to be more than just a really good player. You have to be dominant. A man among boys. The guy that tears it up, week in, week out, over the course of a long career, and ESPECIALLY in meaningful games. I don't think most of the receivers mentioned here have that on their resume.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by stlouisfan37

I think Cris Carter is a perfect example of the player who puts up tremendous numbers but is not in the hall because something is missing. He was fairly pedestrian in the postseason and wasn't always the most productive receiver on his team. He has been kept out of the HOF despite catching 130 touchdowns, and I think the HOF committee is sending a very strong message: if you want in, you need to be more than just a really good player. You have to be dominant. A man among boys. The guy that tears it up, week in, week out, over the course of a long career, and ESPECIALLY in meaningful games. I don't think most of the receivers mentioned here have that on their resume.

The reason CC isn't in the HOF yet has NOTHING to do with his on the field production. It's all political with him.
THere are voters who flat out think he's an asshole.
Don't ascribe these lofty motives to HOF voters as if they were these honorable caretakers to the legacy of the game.

There a bunch of petty, childish grown men who are keeping HOF worthy candidates out of Canton...because they can.

BTW consistently good + time = a dominant/great football player.

[stlouisfan37]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

The reason CC isn't in the HOF yet has NOTHING to do with his on the field production. It's all political with him.
THere are voters who flat out think he's an asshole.
Don't ascribe these lofty motives to HOF voters as if they were these honorable caretakers to the legacy of the game.

There a bunch of petty, childish grown men who are keeping HOF worthy candidates out of Canton...because they can.

BTW consistently good + time = a dominant/great football player.

While I agree that there is a bunch of political garbage involved, I completely disagree in regards to his play on the field. While Carter did post fantastic numbers, I am not sold that he was a Hall of Famer, all the other things aside. He only had a couple of seasons where he was the most productive receiver on his own team. While he consistently led his team in receptions, he never had more yardage than Moss and only scored more TD's than Moss once. Jake Reed also had more yardage than Carter more than once. He never had a 200 yard receiving game, only had six 150 yard games, and his 12.6 ypc career average is the lowest of all the players discussed here. He had a great career, and was very much a steady Eddie; to me he was the WR version of Curtis Martin (who I also did not think was worthy of induction). I think he will probably get in, and if he does, his career numbers will substantiate the nod. However, I don't personally think his career exemplified what a Hall of Famer looks like. This is just my opinion. For what it is worth, I have also said in the past that I feel the same way about most of these receivers. Isaac Bruce had a fantastic career, and is my favorite receiver of all time, but I don't think he is deserving, either.

[boknows34]

If Carter was the only WR candidate among the HOF finalists he'd already be in Canton. His biggest problem is a split in the vote as the 44 voters can't decide between him, Andre Reed and Tim Brown. They're cancelling each other out and allowing players from other positions to jump ahead in the queue. Only the Top 5 advance to the final Yes or No ballot and if Reed and Carter are going roughly 50-50 in the vote share they may be finishing 6th or 7th.

Both Carter and Reed reached the Last 10 last year but didn't reach the Final 5. I think that bodes well for the future they got that far although the 2013 Class is strong for first-time candidates so the same problem may arise again.

[boknows34]

Carter
Brown
Reed

2014 - Marvin Harrison is eligible.

2015 - Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt join the ballot.

2016 - Terrell Owens

2017 - Hines Ward

Randy Moss will be approx 2018/19. Then there's Reggie Wayne who is closing in on 1,000 catches and already has 13,000 yds and a Super Bowl. Larry and Calvin will just push Andre Johnson's name down further on the list though the backlog should be reduced quite a bit by the time Andre is eligible (est 2023/24).

[Caulibflower]

Originally Posted by stlouisfan37

While I agree that there is a bunch of political garbage involved, I completely disagree in regards to his play on the field. While Carter did post fantastic numbers, I am not sold that he was a Hall of Famer, all the other things aside. He only had a couple of seasons where he was the most productive receiver on his own team. While he consistently led his team in receptions, he never had more yardage than Moss and only scored more TD's than Moss once. Jake Reed also had more yardage than Carter more than once. He never had a 200 yard receiving game, only had six 150 yard games, and his 12.6 ypc career average is the lowest of all the players discussed here. He had a great career, and was very much a steady Eddie; to me he was the WR version of Curtis Martin (who I also did not think was worthy of induction). I think he will probably get in, and if he does, his career numbers will substantiate the nod. However, I don't personally think his career exemplified what a Hall of Famer looks like. This is just my opinion. For what it is worth, I have also said in the past that I feel the same way about most of these receivers. Isaac Bruce had a fantastic career, and is my favorite receiver of all time, but I don't think he is deserving, either.

Saying Cris Carter wasn't always the best receiver on his own team when that other receiver might've been the most dangerous downfield threat ever isn't exactly a knock on him. People asking for a signature moment are being a little bit petty, I think, because Cris Carter's reputation is for being a fantastic boundary receiver and having amazing hands. If you're talking about those two areas, Cris Carter is as good a candidate as a standard-setter as anybody, which is what I think of in HOF candidates. Not whether they meet some ambiguous threshold for being "really good," but if they did something that makes people compare other players at the same position to them. If you're talking about boundary skills in a receiver today, you'd be asking, "Is he as good as Cris Carter?" If you're talking about hands, you can be asking, "Are his hands as good as Cris Carter's?" He doesn't need to lead the league in receiving yards or yards per catch to leave a legacy, and acting like some number or other just "isn't good enough" is just saying you don't like the way the back of his football card looks when you compare it to Randy Moss; it fails to appreciate what he did. Stats are just stats. (and for what it's worth, I think he's got the stats.)

Also, Moss is a better HOF candidate than Cris Carter and should get in after a much shorter wait, but that doesn't mean Carter shouldn't get in at all.

[jth1331]

Originally Posted by JRTPlaya21

Marvin Harrison not a HOFer? In what world??? 3rd most receptions ever, 6th most in yards & 5th most in receiving TDs. Marvin had double digit TDs in 8 straight seasons. Something not even Jerry Rice could do.

Cris Carter 9th in yards, only 600 less than Harrison, 4th in receptions, exactly 1 behind Harrison, and he has 3 more TD's than Harrison did.

That is why it is hard to say Harrison is a HOFer.

I think the football HOF is a much bigger crapshoot than other sports.

Look at Isaac Bruce, his numbers stack up very well overall looking at the stat sheet, but when you think of the name Isaac Bruce, does the name "one of the best WR's ever" strike you? Not to me.
Andre Johnson though, he was always so dangerous, but had terrible luck dealing with some really crappy Texans teams for awhile. When we look back, I really do think we will think of him less than the other WR's that he played against, and thus, he isn't a HOFer.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by stlouisfan37

I think Cris Carter is a perfect example of the player who puts up tremendous numbers but is not in the hall because something is missing. He was fairly pedestrian in the postseason and wasn't always the most productive receiver on his team. He has been kept out of the HOF despite catching 130 touchdowns, and I think the HOF committee is sending a very strong message: if you want in, you need to be more than just a really good player. You have to be dominant. A man among boys. The guy that tears it up, week in, week out, over the course of a long career, and ESPECIALLY in meaningful games. I don't think most of the receivers mentioned here have that on their resume.

Carter was dominant. Just because he wasn't the best receiver on his team sometimes, doesn't mean he isn't a strong Hall of Fame candidate. There is a reason why he was selected to the Pro Bowl and All Pro lists over Jake Reed, who made zero during his career. Randy Moss joined Carter late in Carter's career, but Cater still played at an All Pro level alongside Moss. It's like saying Jerry Rice is overrated because John Taylor was on the team or Marvin Harrison was overrated because Reggie Wayne is on the team. Carter was an acrobat on the sideline and had the best hands maybe ever. Plus he was a monster in the redzone. Jake Reed was a good receiver, but he didn't bring this dynamic to the gridiron. And like someone else mentioned there may be backdoor politics preventing Carter from getting into the Hall of Fame. Some people probably don't like him. This could be a reason why Ricky Watters has also been left out for so long.

[America]

Originally Posted by ShutDwn

What's his signature play? He has nice stats but he isn't that memorable a player to me. Always highly ranked in people's WR lists but he doesn't have a resume of clutch plays in big games.

He caught that bomb on 4th down - jump ball in the endzone - against the Redskins to win it.

[armageddon]

His numbers won't even reach Bruce or Holt's numbers, who may people say aren't HOF's.

[Smooth Criminal]

Right now I would say no. But I say no to almost anyone that there can be a discussion over. If you're a true HoF player, you don't have one of these threads about you.

[JRTPlaya21]

Originally Posted by America

He caught that bomb on 4th down - jump ball in the endzone - against the Redskins to win it.

Lol impressive......

[Ness]

Andre Johnson doesn't have any signature moments in his career that are staples of NFL Films. But neither does Warren Moon, Dan Fouts, or Curtis Martin. Of course they make up for it with sheer dominating numbers.