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Old 12-30-2012, 02:03 PM    (permalink
Babylon
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Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
When I watch Geno Smith (and let me preface this by saying I do like him as a prospect) I simply don't see any "IT" in his game. He has the tools to be successful in the NFL, and given the current talent at the position I think he can come in and be a middle of the pack starter. That may sound like an insult to his ability, but it's not; I see nothing wrong with being a starter rated somewhere between 15 and 20. Is that enough to go 1st overall to the Chiefs? Honestly it probably is because they need a guy who can manage a game and make the necessary throws since they have an established ground attack and a bunch of talent on defense. I don't see an especially high ceiling with Geno nor do I see a low floor. Sam Bradford and Alex Smith, both being 1st overall picks, have come in and become steady QB's, nothing special, and Geno will be much the same.

I like your analysis of the situation with Smith. what I think is entirely possible is that guys like Wilson hand Glennon might actually be better NFL QBs. To me it's still t be determined.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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Really depends on who Geno's coach is. I think he would really be big in the NFL if he was in Shannahan's system aka Kyle Shannahan being his coach.

I still think the best pro comp for Geno is a more athletic Sam Bradford.

Difference being that Bradford played on a college team loaded with talent everywhere with a good HC while Geno only had 2 WR's and the rest being garbage.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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I like your analysis of the situation with Smith. what I think is entirely possible is that guys like Wilson hand Glennon might actually be better NFL QBs. To me it's still t be determined.
I agree. Wilson is my #1 guy and if I were in the Chiefs situation he'd be the choice to make. Glennon has all the desirable tools to be successful at the next level (much like Joe Flacco) and I wouldn't fault the Chiefs for selecting him either. While none of the top three guys are Luck or Griffin caliber players, they are still fully capable of stepping in for their respective teams next season and improving the product on the field.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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Really depends on who Geno's coach is. I think he would really be big in the NFL if he was in Shannahan's system aka Kyle Shannahan being his coach.

I still think the best pro comp for Geno is a more athletic Sam Bradford.

Difference being that Bradford played on a college team loaded with talent everywhere with a good HC while Geno only had 2 WR's and the rest being garbage.
I used the Bradford comparison early in the year but at this point that would be a stretch.
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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He isn't Matt Cassel so he has that going for him.
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
Geno Smith is this year's Blaine Gabbert, but better.
Oh, so nothing like Blaine Gabbert than. Riveting insight.

A game in heavy snow and a really sloppy field will have basically 0 impact on Genos stock.
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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How many times have NFL been in the wintry condition? Outside Great Lake teams, of course.

I am sure most NFL Head Coaches will want a heavy run game in this kind of conditions anyway.
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by farfromforgotten View Post
This guy also hated Russell Wilson and went as far to neg rep me because I said I thought he'd be a very good QB for Seattle earlier in the year before he started taking the league by storm. I know a lot of people were down on Wilson, and I don't mind being neg repped from time to time if it calls for it, but I'm a little skeptical of this guys ability to scout QB's. (not that I'm a professional by any means). I only bring up the neg rep because he seems to really, really, dislike certain QB's for some reason and spews venom towards them.

SolidGold, you seem to hold yourself in pretty high regards when it comes to scouting QB's. I'm curious, which QB's currently in college do you actually like?
I like Wilson and Glennon out of this year's class. I would put Barkley, Smith and Jones as the 2nd tier guys. I really don't see much difference between Barkley and Smith. Jones is a guy I like probably more than most which I will get **** for on this board but if Brock Osweiler was able to get drafted in the 2nd round than Landry Jones should get late first round consideration.

Smith has shown himself incapable of controlling his emotions. The KSU game also sticks out to me as a game where he lost his composure on the sideline. Everyone has their opinions and my may not agree with anyone else's but that's the feeling I get from Geno Smith. When things don't go his way he loses his composure. During the 5 game hot start he was fine but when faced with adversity the frustration and lack emotional restraint on the sidelines was a red flag for me. I am sure many others will disagree and that is fine.

And after neg repping you I threw some positive rep your way because you were right.
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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I like Wilson and Glennon out of this year's class. I would put Barkley, Smith and Jones as the 2nd tier guys. I really don't see much difference between Barkley and Smith. Jones is a guy I like probably more than most which I will get **** for on this board but if Brock Osweiler was able to get drafted in the 2nd round than Landry Jones should get late first round consideration.

Smith has shown himself incapable of controlling his emotions. The KSU game also sticks out to me as a game where he lost his composure on the sideline. Everyone has their opinions and my may not agree with anyone else's but that's the feeling I get from Geno Smith. When things don't go his way he loses his composure. During the 5 game hot start he was fine but when faced with adversity the frustration and lack emotional restraint on the sidelines was a red flag for me. I am sure many others will disagree and that is fine.

And after neg repping you I threw some positive rep your way because you were right.

Do you rank qb prospect somewhere in this site? I would love to check it out as Jets are obviously in the market for new quarterback.
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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I like Wilson and Glennon out of this year's class. I would put Barkley, Smith and Jones as the 2nd tier guys. I really don't see much difference between Barkley and Smith. Jones is a guy I like probably more than most which I will get **** for on this board but if Brock Osweiler was able to get drafted in the 2nd round than Landry Jones should get late first round consideration.

Smith has shown himself incapable of controlling his emotions. The KSU game also sticks out to me as a game where he lost his composure on the sideline. Everyone has their opinions and my may not agree with anyone else's but that's the feeling I get from Geno Smith. When things don't go his way he loses his composure. During the 5 game hot start he was fine but when faced with adversity the frustration and lack emotional restraint on the sidelines was a red flag for me. I am sure many others will disagree and that is fine.

And after neg repping you I threw some positive rep your way because you were right.
Fair enough. I must have missed the +rep, sorry about that.

This QB class is a hard one to predict. That's for sure. I like Smith, Wilson, and then probably Glennon at this point as my top 3. I haven't seen as much of Glennon as I have the other higher ranked QB's, though. The top 2 have been set for me for awhile now.

I can understand why people have their rankings differently than mine. I could sit and argue why I think Geno is #1, but he is nowhere near perfect. He has his flaws and has definitely disappointed me at times this year.

Maybe that's more what this QB draft class is about? Whose flaws are you least worried about going to the next level...
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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I think yesterday's performance was a fitting end to Smith's career. They started out hot - everyone was on his nuts for heisman and 1st overall pick and than they actually play some tough teams with good defenses and get exposed. 10 years ago Smith would of been lumped in with the other system QBs - Timmy Chang/Texas Tech QBs. Yesterday was a really good summation of the 2-6 end to WVU's season.

I was happy to see him go out a loser - the guy just rubbed me the wrong way. And like I have said countless times that he is going to be compared to Griffin and Newton by those know-nothings like Peter King and other media types because they are black.
You just made Timmy Chang a happy man! lol

Maybe Geno Smith could end up like an Aaron Brooks type.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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I like Alex Smith as a comparison for Geno Smith. Sam Bradford's not too bad either. I think that's what you're looking at, a quarterback who can limit turnovers but probably isn't going to singlehandedly win games.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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You just made Timmy Chang a happy man! lol

Maybe Geno Smith could end up like an Aaron Brooks type.
Yea with the Timmy Chang comparison I was going for the eye-popping stats. Everyone loves to see the gaudy numbers. I think 10 years ago Smith would have been labeled a system QB but that really illustrates how much the game has changed the last decade.
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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Yea with the Timmy Chang comparison I was going for the eye-popping stats. Everyone loves to see the gaudy numbers. I think 10 years ago Smith would have been labeled a system QB but that really illustrates how much the game has changed the last decade.
The game as well as how scouts are evaluating these prospects has evolved quite a bit. The once-considered 'gimmicky' college offenses are gradually becoming staples in NFL playbooks. There's talk of Chip Kelly being a coveted hire in the NFL. Seems teams want to be a step or two ahead of the comp offensively...like they want to be the guy with the latest tech and with the latest apps.
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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If you're the Jets, or the Bills, or somebody else who plays outdoors in nasty weather all the time, then yeah you worry a little about a kid looking mediocre in bad weather.

But the majority of your games will never be played in the slop (well, the Soldier Field grounds crew aside), so it's just part of the analysis. One game never makes you go "this guy's a schlub" or "this guy's going to be a hall of famer". Everything goes in the scouting report, but one play, quarter, or game never matters that much on its own.
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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The game as well as how scouts are evaluating these prospects has evolved quite a bit. The once-considered 'gimmicky' college offenses are gradually becoming staples in NFL playbooks. There's talk of Chip Kelly being a coveted hire in the NFL. Seems teams want to be a step or two ahead of the comp offensively...like they want to be the guy with the latest tech and with the latest apps.
I agree. Eventually defenses will catch up though. IMO the reason these types of offenses have really expanded in the past few years is because of the rule changes. Hopefully they will stop slanting the game so heavily in favor of offenses to bring some balance back.
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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I was just wondering, who is the last QB who didn't win at least 9 or 10 games his final year of college who went on to NFL success? Jay Cutler? Maybe Matt Ryan?

The fact that most of this years top guys couldn't lead their teams to college success is a real red flag to me. That was the same knock on guys like Gabbert in years past.

Most of the guys who have had early success just have that vibe about them that makes them seem like "winners." Dalton, Luck, Wilson, Griffin, Newton, etc.

I know each of these guys have excuses that explain some of the losses, but the great ones seem to find ways to transcend their circumstances and lead their programs to historic levels of success.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:35 AM    (permalink
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The game as well as how scouts are evaluating these prospects has evolved quite a bit. The once-considered 'gimmicky' college offenses are gradually becoming staples in NFL playbooks. There's talk of Chip Kelly being a coveted hire in the NFL. Seems teams want to be a step or two ahead of the comp offensively...like they want to be the guy with the latest tech and with the latest apps.
Chip Kelly's QBs aren't good in the NFL. I dunno about him being a good fit in the NFL, but I know you're right in that he seems to be a coveted hire.

When the NFL decided it wanted more "entertainment" factor and changed the rules to allow for more scoring, it made it easier for college QBs to transition to the NFL. College has always had potent scoring teams that put up 50-70 points regularly. Those systems are now easier to implement in the NFL. Thus, I think it'll be easier to find NFL QBs. The Pro Style QB in college is becoming less and less important. Even top SEC teams have gone spread where they used to be "Pro Style".
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:43 AM    (permalink
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Chip Kelly's QBs aren't good in the NFL. I dunno about him being a good fit in the NFL, but I know you're right in that he seems to be a coveted hire.

When the NFL decided it wanted more "entertainment" factor and changed the rules to allow for more scoring, it made it easier for college QBs to transition to the NFL. College has always had potent scoring teams that put up 50-70 points regularly. Those systems are now easier to implement in the NFL. Thus, I think it'll be easier to find NFL QBs. The Pro Style QB in college is becoming less and less important. Even top SEC teams have gone spread where they used to be "Pro Style".
So true. It sucks it is never going back to the way it was but at least some acknowledge the proliferation of the spread offense is not due to offensive innovation but of the rule changes the league has put into place. I don't think Kelly will pan out as a pro coach but since the spread option is all the rage he will be highly sought after.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:44 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Chip Kelly's QBs aren't good in the NFL. I dunno about him being a good fit in the NFL, but I know you're right in that he seems to be a coveted hire.

When the NFL decided it wanted more "entertainment" factor and changed the rules to allow for more scoring, it made it easier for college QBs to transition to the NFL. College has always had potent scoring teams that put up 50-70 points regularly. Those systems are now easier to implement in the NFL. Thus, I think it'll be easier to find NFL QBs. The Pro Style QB in college is becoming less and less important. Even top SEC teams have gone spread where they used to be "Pro Style".
That's an odd thing to say. The best QB prospect he's had was Dennis Dixon, who only went in the 5th round. It'd not like Jeff Tedford having multiple failed 1st round QBs. He's never had an NFL QB to work with.
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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His tantrum on the field and sidelines was not a good look. Even after the coach told him to show poise he still went off. Don't throw a hissy-just play better.
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....ask Brandon Weeden.
Pre-Draft 2014 Mock *FULL DRAFT*
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:56 PM    (permalink
SchizophrenicBatman
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I was just wondering, who is the last QB who didn't win at least 9 or 10 games his final year of college who went on to NFL success? Jay Cutler? Maybe Matt Ryan?

The fact that most of this years top guys couldn't lead their teams to college success is a real red flag to me. That was the same knock on guys like Gabbert in years past.

Most of the guys who have had early success just have that vibe about them that makes them seem like "winners." Dalton, Luck, Wilson, Griffin, Newton, etc.

I know each of these guys have excuses that explain some of the losses, but the great ones seem to find ways to transcend their circumstances and lead their programs to historic levels of success.
Ryan won 10+, BC was #2 overall that year remember?
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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Ryan won 10+, BC was #2 overall that year remember?
So was USF lol. That was a weird year.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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Drafting QBs in the first round only costs pennies on the dollar anyway with new rookie salary cap, that if you think a guy is a bust after 3 years it really won't blow up your team's salary cap to dump him.

Since money is almost no object, I don't see the huge downside in a QB needy team taking Geno Smith high in the draft.

I agree Smith has had plenty of 'it' moments in his career where he's looked like the best player on the field.
Take a shot and see if he can play. If he can't no big deal and you draft another QB in a few years.

If Andy Reid is the Chiefs new HC, I think he looks hard at taking Geno Smith with the top pick.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:18 PM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
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So true. It sucks it is never going back to the way it was but at least some acknowledge the proliferation of the spread offense is not due to offensive innovation but of the rule changes the league has put into place. I don't think Kelly will pan out as a pro coach but since the spread option is all the rage he will be highly sought after.
What rules make running the spread more advantageous in the NFL?? People act like DBs still don't hold downfield. Cornerbacks IMO are as physical as they've ever been and refs never call anything unless it's obvious interference.

The spread has come into vogue because more teams have abandoned the run game to chase points.
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