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Old 12-30-2012, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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Never forget the Jermaine O'Neal/Shawn Marion Miami Heat.
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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Omg, BBD is making me get an urge to actally hope Miami stomps on the Knicks lol
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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We'll see you in the ECF. Can't wait.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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I went to a Heat game where our leading player was Ricky Davis. So DIAF.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
But what LeBron does is NOT a post game! It's finishing at the hoop with his face towards the basket. That is NOT a post game!

I'm not arguing who the better player is, or who finishes at the basket better. That is not what I'm saying. Only a moron would say Melo is better than LeBron in that regard.

But Melo has a better POST GAME because Melo actually posts up whereas LeBron doesn't.

A post game is having your back to the basket. And "posting up", using a variety of pivot moves. When you become the post, you become the PG of the offense bc the off ball players all move to their sets while the ball is in your hands and how the defense plays you will dictate what you do with the ball, you can pass out of the post or pivot and score, either attacking the basket, using a hook shot, a fade away jumper etc.

That is a post game. Melo has a post game. Kobe has a post game. Olajuwon had a post game. Jordan had a post game. LeBron does NOT have a post game.

We're arguing 2 different things here. I'm not saying Melo attacks the basket better. I'm saying he has a better post game. What's the big deal in saying that? I don't get it.
Because stats.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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Are you really stupid enough to ignore stats?
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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I went to a Heat game where our leading player was Ricky Davis. So DIAF.
Ricky Davis was the man.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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My point here is that it is a stupid argument overall......scoring close to the basket is the point of a "post game". If Lebron can score more effectively inside, it doesn't matter how he does it. He is better at producing the desired end result. Case closed. I don't care how refined you are, I care whether of not you get the job done and produce. It's just like there being no point in discussing "who is playing better right now" arguments while ignoring historical data.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Ricky Davis was the man.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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my favorite was Bob Sura's attempt against the Nets.

because Bob Sura.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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Are you really stupid enough to ignore stats?
First off, i'm agreeing with what BBD's interpretation of a post game is. I get what he's saying and not ignoring it simply to throw out random numbers. Your argument is that because Lebron has better statzz at the rim, he's a better offensive post player, which is not an accurate assessment.

Secondly, there are a huge number of variables that go into these little stats of yours that are unaccounted for. Basketball is a game where it's incredibly easy to judge skill based on the eye ball test. It doesn't take a genius to see that Lebron has his way with defenders in large part due to his enormous athletic advantage over everyone. And before you go and turn this into a different argument like you love to do, i'm not saying he isn't a skilled basketball player. Of course he is, i just think there are guys out there with better individual skills. But one guy having better numbers on paper does not always indicate he is a more skilled player in that area.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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It's simple, guys.....you need to score on one play and you can post either LeBron or Melo. You post LBJ 10 times out of 10 because he is more likely to score. It's irrelevant how he does it.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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fwiw.....from last year.....absolute destruction.

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Old 12-30-2012, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Wait is there another Carlos Boozer in the league? Wtf.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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Omer Asik soon to take control of that list.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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fwiw.....from last year.....absolute destruction.

Because stats.

We get that he's good, i don't think anyone has argued against that. But the Knicks also don't do a good job of utilizing Melo offensively, especially not last year. There's diminishing utility when you constantly throw a player who isn't quite a 4 into the post. Lebron is built like a truck, he can handle his own over a longer period of time down there than Carmelo can.

Anyway, just out of curiosity, what are Melo's stats in that chart?
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
First off, i'm agreeing with what BBD's interpretation of a post game is. I get what he's saying and not ignoring it simply to throw out random numbers. Your argument is that because Lebron has better statzz at the rim, he's a better offensive post player, which is not an accurate assessment.

Secondly, there are a huge number of variables that go into these little stats of yours that are unaccounted for. Basketball is a game where it's incredibly easy to judge skill based on the eye ball test. It doesn't take a genius to see that Lebron has his way with defenders in large part due to his enormous athletic advantage over everyone. And before you go and turn this into a different argument like you love to do, i'm not saying he isn't a skilled basketball player. Of course he is, i just think there are guys out there with better individual skills. But one guy having better numbers on paper does not always indicate he is a more skilled player in that area.
It is absolutely an accurate assessment. LeBron has been better inside of 9 feet his entire career, and Melo has been largely below average in that area his entire career. Melo is not an elite or even very good post player, he's average at best. LeBron IS an elite post player, probably the best in the entire NBA.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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Because stats.

We get that he's good, i don't think anyone has argued against that. But the Knicks also don't do a good job of utilizing Melo offensively, especially not last year. There's diminishing utility when you constantly throw a player who isn't quite a 4 into the post. Lebron is built like a truck, he can handle his own over a longer period of time down there than Carmelo can.

Anyway, just out of curiosity, what are Melo's stats in that chart?
they're right here: #Knicksin2013
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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You know what MetSox, you're right. No more trolling from me. From now on I'm just talking basketball.

ATL, you gotta hold the fort down for us while I take a leave of absence from #KnicksIn2013
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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Because stats.

We get that he's good, i don't think anyone has argued against that. But the Knicks also don't do a good job of utilizing Melo offensively, especially not last year. There's diminishing utility when you constantly throw a player who isn't quite a 4 into the post. Lebron is built like a truck, he can handle his own over a longer period of time down there than Carmelo can.

Anyway, just out of curiosity, what are Melo's stats in that chart?
I don't have a synergy membership so I'm not sure....he wasn't in the top 10 though. I'll have a membership soon though and I'll check it.

But, see, you are making our argument by saying Melo isn't big enough to handle the post consistently....that, along with a litany of other factors, makes LeBron the better post player.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Melo's post presence is the reason why we're one of the best offenses in the league this year. He opens up the perimeter for those open look 3 pointers. His % in the post is misleading, because teams specifically gameplan to take away his post game and we don't have a 2nd scorer on the team to open up the floor for him.

No one is saying that LeBron isn't better than Melo. But LeBron's offensive game is not as refined as Melo's. Just watch them play, it's obvious. LeBron makes up for it with rare athletic ability.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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BBD, if this were like 5 years ago, I'd agree but Lebron's refined his total game so much. I used to say: Lebron's the best athlete while Kobe's the best basketball player. Now, Lebron's jumper is so much better. He can handle, shoot, score, everything. He's arguably top 5 in every single NBA catagory (ok, not shooting because of guys like Kyle Korver, but his jumper is lightyears from where it was)
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:44 PM    (permalink
MetSox17
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It's a shame that Kobe's getting up there in age after fighting through so many injuries throughout his career, because how he plays right now is ******* amazing. His pure skill and instinct is unmatched. I love watching the guy play, especially when he's really on.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:45 PM    (permalink
Wootylicous
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Melo is a volume shooter.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:45 PM    (permalink
scottyboy
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
It's a shame that Kobe's getting up there in age after fighting through so many injuries throughout his career, because how he plays right now is ******* amazing. His pure skill and instinct is unmatched. I love watching the guy play, especially when he's really on.
I totally agree. He's so amazing and i love him no matter what. But at this point, there is no more Lebron/Kobe debate.

but what Kobe's doing this season is nothing less than awesome
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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