NBA Discussion Thread

[Brodeur]

Originally Posted by Cutey Wooty

Melo is a volume shooter.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by scottyboy

BBD, if this were like 5 years ago, I'd agree but Lebron's refined his total game so much. I used to say: Lebron's the best athlete while Kobe's the best basketball player. Now, Lebron's jumper is so much better. He can handle, shoot, score, everything. He's arguably top 5 in every single NBA catagory (ok, not shooting because of guys like Kyle Korver, but his jumper is lightyears from where it was)

LeBron has improved his game, i won't argue that. But we're talking about working out of the post, I still don't think his game is as refined as Melo's is. Melo's best assest is his post game. That's why he's such a mismatch at the 4. That's why people have been clamoring for him to play the 4 for so long.

I think we're arguing different things here. Skill vs ability. Ability is often a product of athleticism. LeBron has more ability out of the post bc of his athleticism. His skill in the post isn't as refined as a Melo, or a ZBo, or even a Kobe who has a very good post game in his own right.

[iowatreat54]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Melo's post presence is the reason why we're one of the best offenses in the league this year. He opens up the perimeter for those open look 3 pointers. His % in the post is misleading, because teams specifically gameplan to take away his post game and we don't have a 2nd scorer on the team to open up the floor for him.

Congrats, you just described the effect of every decent post player ever.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by MetSox17

It's a shame that Kobe's getting up there in age after fighting through so many injuries throughout his career, because how he plays right now is ******* amazing. His pure skill and instinct is unmatched. I love watching the guy play, especially when he's really on.

I went to the Knicks Lakers game this year at the Garden, and I was amazed at how good he is with little athleticism left.

When I saw LeBron and Wade play live, I was floored by the the sheer athleticism both displayed. They were freaks.

Kobe was slow, couldn't jump high, he looked like an old man. But his movement skills, anticipation skills, jump shot, moves in the post, they were all just incredible. He's an amazing basketball player with such a high IQ.

And when he said screw it I'm taking over the game bc my teammates suck, he single handedly brought them back. I regret not seeing him play live when he was younger.

[comahan]

Originally Posted by scottyboy

BBD, if this were like 5 years ago, I'd agree but Lebron's refined his total game so much. I used to say: Lebron's the best athlete while Kobe's the best basketball player. Now, Lebron's jumper is so much better. He can handle, shoot, score, everything. He's arguably top 5 in every single NBA catagory (ok, not shooting because of guys like Kyle Korver, but his jumper is lightyears from where it was)

The comparison I used to love making was that LeBron was the Shaquille O'Neal of perimeter players, while Kobe was the Hakeem Olajuwon. LeBron was the most dominant, physically intimidating player in the league who relied more on his physical gifts than anything else. Kobe meanwhile, was the freakishly skilled, extremely smart player who could pick you apart with his game as opposed to his pure athleticism. Basically, to make a similar statement to yours, LeBron was the most dominant player while Kobe was the best player. Thats obviously changed a little over the years, but yea.

[draftguru151]

Having the best player in the world that can do whatever the **** he wants is so awesome mwahaha.

[Brodeur]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

LeBron has improved his game, i won't argue that. But we're talking about working out of the post, I still don't think his game is as refined as Melo's is. Melo's best assest is his post game. That's why he's such a mismatch at the 4. That's why people have been clamoring for him to play the 4 for so long.

I think we're arguing different things here. Skill vs ability. Ability is often a product of athleticism. LeBron has more ability out of the post bc of his athleticism. His skill in the post isn't as refined as a Melo, or a ZBo, or even a Kobe who has a very good post game in his own right.

Melo's not a mismatch at the 4. He's not a good defender at the 4, he's a well below average rebounder for a 4, he can't exactly past well out of the post, and he doesn't dominate in the post. He also doesn't have LeBron's athleticism or strength to make him a mismatch, so he's just kind of there.

[Wootylicous]

He's a catch and shoot guy.

[MetSox17]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I went to the Knicks Lakers game this year at the Garden, and I was amazed at how good he is with little athleticism left.

When I saw LeBron and Wade play live, I was floored by the the sheer athleticism both displayed. They were freaks.

Kobe was slow, couldn't jump high, he looked like an old man. But his movement skills, anticipation skills, jump shot, moves in the post, they were all just incredible. He's an amazing basketball player with such a high IQ.

And when he said screw it I'm taking over the game bc my teammates suck, he single handedly brought them back. I regret not seeing him play live when he was younger.

That's the difference between naturally skilled guys and the guys whose numbers deteriorate as their athleticism dwindles. Kobe is probably the best in the NBA at creating space between himself and his defender. Ball swipes, jab steps, head fakes, pump fakes, spins, pivots. He can do it all, from both feet, at any spot in the floor, and none of that requires the athleticism he no longer has. Hell, they had to adjust the pump fake-jump into the defender rule because of how effective he made that. He'll always be one of my favorite players.

edit - and that's why i mentioned last week that i thought he was the most skilled offensive scorer in the NBA. Durant and Melo still have the advantage of their athleticism (and in Lebron's and Durant's case, their freakish size - body type), while Kobe is out here dominating games with busted hands and knees.

[scottyboy]

Originally Posted by comahan

The comparison I used to love making was that LeBron was the Shaquille O'Neal of perimeter players, while Kobe was the Hakeem Olajuwon. LeBron was the most dominant, physically intimidating player in the league who relied more on his physical gifts than anything else. Kobe meanwhile, was the freakishly skilled, extremely smart player who could pick you apart with his game as opposed to his pure athleticism. Basically, to make a similar statement to yours, LeBron was the most dominant player while Kobe was the best player. Thats obviously changed a little over the years, but yea.

holy hell that's an excellent comparison. I agree 100%

Originally Posted by draftguru151

Having the best player in the world that can do whatever the **** he wants is so awesome mwahaha.

that article with him saying he could lead the league in scoring but doesn't need to/have to is so awesome. The fact he can go out there and get like 20-7-7-3 (boards, assists, steals) with ease is so awesome and ridiculous. He's such a freak

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Brodeur

Melo's not a mismatch at the 4. He's not a good defender at the 4, he's a well below average rebounder for a 4, he can't exactly past well out of the post, and he doesn't dominate in the post. He also doesn't have LeBron's athleticism or strength to make him a mismatch, so he's just kind of there.

Now you're just trolling. He's not a mismatch at the 4? So why is he an MVP candidate this year? Bc according to you Melo clearly isn't a good player yet we're 2nd in the East bc of him and we have one of the best offenses in the game with him being our only real scorer on the team. How is he doing it genius?

[jballa838]

MVP candidate? Didn't the Knicks do better with him on the bench last year?

[MetSox17]

Hopefully Lebron turns into a fat slob just like Shaq, too, but that's pretty doubtful.


Also, Durant, Kobe, Melo, all those guys could lead the league in scoring "if they wanted". If you take enough shots, you'll get there. Lebron doesn't "need to" because he decided he'd sign with a team with two other all stars. His work load isn't nearly as heavy so he can concentrate on other aspects of the offense like facilitating others and rebounding/defending. It's a nice compliment to his skill that he technically can if he chose to, but in this case it's more by circumstance than choice. If he was in Cleveland, he'd have to.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by MetSox17

That's the difference between naturally skilled guys and the guys whose numbers deteriorate as their athleticism dwindles. Kobe is probably the best in the NBA at creating space between himself and his defender. Ball swipes, jab steps, head fakes, pump fakes, spins, pivots. He can do it all, from both feet, at any spot in the floor, and none of that requires the athleticism he no longer has. Hell, they had to adjust the pump fake-jump into the defender rule because of how effective he made that. He'll always be one of my favorite players.

edit - and that's why i mentioned last week that i thought he was the most skilled offensive scorer in the NBA. Durant and Melo still have the advantage of their athleticism (and in Lebron's and Durant's case, their freakish size - body type), while Kobe is out here dominating games with busted hands and knees.

That is true. I didn't think of it that way. He is still the best pure scorer in the league.

I think this whole argument we're having is based on your interpretation of skill vs ability.

When I say a guy is a better pure scorer, I'm judging that on skill, not ability. Shaq scored more than Zo. Zo was a better pure scorer.

[comahan]

Reminds me of the fact that Wilt Chamberlain made a point to lead the league in assists one year simply because he got annoyed at people saying he didn't pass the ball enough.

What a badass.

[Raiderz4Life]

Only BBD thinks he's a candidate.

[Brodeur]

Kobe has more stars on his team than LeBron does, but he just takes a massive amount of shots anyways because he's not a facilitator in any way, shape, or form.

[comahan]

Id put Melo in the top 5 or so right now. He's a candidate. Best player on a good team, 28 ppg, etc. He isnt beating Durant or LeBron though. Melo is a really good player thats having a real nice year. BBD is just making people want to hate him, lol.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Brodeur

Kobe has more stars on his team than LeBron does, but he just takes a massive amount of shots anyways because he's not a facilitator in any way, shape, or form.

Do you honestly think that Kobe is the 3rd most important player on his own team?

Bc if you do then I don't even know what to say...

[Brodeur]

I wouldn't, but I don't need to list anyone anymore.

[MetSox17]

Snowflake doing Snowflakey things.

[Raiderz4Life]

Gtdamn it Snowflake and I was just starting to kind maybe agree with you.

[soybean]

Originally Posted by draftguru151

Having the best player in the world that can do whatever the **** he wants is so awesome mwahaha.

Enjoy it while it lasts! He could be Cleveland, Brooklyn or LA bound.

[Da-Phins]

Hey Royce White...**** you, you ************. I swear I've never seen a player so dramatic and whine all the time like him.

Incase you missed it. Royce was assigned to the Rockets D League team the other day. Everything looked like things was turning and he was ready to join the team. Well earlier today he released a statement saying he wasnt going to attend and will continue to sit out. While he decided to bash the Rockets some more. Saying it isnt healthy for him to be sent to the D League and all this BS he was saying a few months ago.

Im seriously done with this turd. He's a headcase and I hope he never sets foot on an NBA court.

[Bosanac01]

I just read that. I don't think the Rockets know how to handle him. He really does have some mental issues.