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Old 12-27-2012, 10:50 PM    (permalink
MaxV
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Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
This is pretty much right where I'm at, too. I'm liking Tyler Wilson better and better as a potential number one, and I also think Glennon's going to be a top-10 pick when it's all said and done, if not no. 1 himself.
I must be missing something.

The guy had a 57% completion.

1st overall? Really?
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:25 AM    (permalink
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Luke Joekel is probably the best player in the draft who plays a premium position. Jarvis Jones would be that guy if he didn't have the medical concerns. Star Lotulelei and Manti Te'o are probably better players overall but I wouldn't consider their positions to be premium or worthy of being picked number 1 overall. Tyler Wilson is the best of the QBs which automatically makes him the front runner even though it probably shouldn't.

Even if this QB class wasn't coming right after the Luck-RG3 class I'd still call it lackluster. With no one guy being definitively better than the others, it makes the class of QBs considerably more difficult to evaluate because there is just no way to really put them into some semblance of order.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:59 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MaxV View Post
I must be missing something.

The guy had a 57% completion.

1st overall? Really?
I just said I think it's possible. It's a weak year for QBs, and I think he's on a similar level as QBs like Jake Locker (55.4% as a senior), Matt Ryan (59% as a senior), Josh Freeman (58.6% as a junior before coming out), Jay Cutler (59.1% as a senior), etc. Any one of whom could've gone first overall this year. Accuracy isn't a stat, and I'm fine with his career average of 60% after watching how many passes his receivers dropped this year.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:23 AM    (permalink
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I bet the chiefs take Duron Carter with the number one pick
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
It's funny that some fans think there's a way around risk with the #1 pick. Not taking a QB is not a way to avoid risk. Other positions bust too. Go look at past drafts if you think QB is the only risky position.
That's kind of what I was getting at with my last post. I'm sure many will disagree with me, but I'm of the opinion that there isn't that "OMG, this guy is heads and shoulders better than anyone in the draft and must be taken #1 overall" guy in this draft. That's why I wanted to field opinions as to if people are so against the Chiefs taking a QB #1 overall, then what is definitively a better alternative at this point that is going to improve this team?

Yeah, Joeckel is a fine prospect. As is Te'o, etc. But I don't see elite/can't miss talents in either or anyone else for that matter, IMO.

There is still much to be determined between now and April. But looking at the options available at #1, the Chiefs might not have much choice but to go QB if one is even remotely close to being #1 overall worthy.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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What really chaps my ass is people like Kiper who say that no QB is worthy of going #1 overall, even though it's our biggest need, but mocking a QB 6th. Sorry, if a QB can go 6th overall, he can go 1st overall.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
What really chaps my ass is people like Kiper who say that no QB is worthy of going #1 overall, even though it's our biggest need, but mocking a QB 6th. Sorry, if a QB can go 6th overall, he can go 1st overall.
It's kind of weird that "#1 overall" has a magical connotation to it. It just means you worst team in the league.
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Tannehill was a better QB (than Gabbert) when he was still playing WR
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MaxV View Post
I must be missing something.

The guy had a 57% completion.

1st overall? Really?
That seriously cannot be your reasoning. Matt Ryan had a completion percentage under 60% his senior. And his first 3 years were horrendous. But he was still the #3 pick and looking back, he should have been the #1 pick. You can't make picks based on stats. It would be silly to ignore the fact that Bryan Underwood is probably solely responsible for Glennon not reaching 60%. Or maybe you'll look at his stats and say, "How could you say that? He led the team in TD catches!"
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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What really chaps my ass is people like Kiper who say that no QB is worthy of going #1 overall, even though it's our biggest need, but mocking a QB 6th. Sorry, if a QB can go 6th overall, he can go 1st overall.
Kiper made a mock recently? Where did you see this?
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
That seriously cannot be your reasoning. Matt Ryan had a completion percentage under 60% his senior. And his first 3 years were horrendous. But he was still the #3 pick and looking back, he should have been the #1 pick. You can't make picks based on stats. It would be silly to ignore the fact that Bryan Underwood is probably solely responsible for Glennon not reaching 60%. Or maybe you'll look at his stats and say, "How could you say that? He led the team in TD catches!"
That isn't my only reason.

I've seen him play.

And although I like his upside, I would be hesitant to pick him in the top 10.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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What really chaps my ass is people like Kiper who say that no QB is worthy of going #1 overall, even though it's our biggest need, but mocking a QB 6th. Sorry, if a QB can go 6th overall, he can go 1st overall.
Tannehill went 8th last year, but he sure as hell wasn't going 1st if Luck and RG3 stayed in school.
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:09 PM    (permalink
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Geno Smith
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MaxV View Post
I must be missing something.

The guy had a 57% completion.

1st overall? Really?
Matt Ryan was supposed to go #1 overall and his was in the high 50s as well.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MaxV View Post
I must be missing something.

The guy had a 57% completion.

1st overall? Really?
He was throwing to a human backstop in Bryan Underwood. Some of the worst hands Ive seen from a WR. His completion % would have been alot higher if he could catch.
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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re: Glennon's accuracy

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/...russell-wilson
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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Glennon's completion% was more of his receivers dropping passes more than anything.
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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Geno Smith to Terrance Copper! Look out NFL it's coming and it's coming hard...
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:27 PM    (permalink
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Maybe closing their eyes and hoping for the best is something they should try? I take it they have actually scouted QB's in past drafts and researched free agents in the off seasons. What has that gotten them? Still a not very good team, I'd say.

How is that good strategy that is just a quick way to draft a bust. Just because they have failed in the past does not mean they all a sudden have to get desperate and reach for a QB.
Like I, and others, have said - what good does drafting all the surrounding talent do when you don't have a franchise QB in place? They drafted Dwayne Bowe. Great pick. Legit #1 WR in the NFL. He's probably leaving. Still don't have a franchise QB in place. Drafted all kinds of O and D lineman. What for? The O-line can protect the QB, right? Settle the O-line and then get your QB! Well, wait a minute... where is the franchise QB? No where to be found. A good QB can make an offensive line look better, rarely can the opposite be said.
You do not always need to have a franchise QB to win.Andy Dalton was the 35th pick you do not have to pick qbs high to get a good one.
Luck and RG3 or anyone of their ilk are not in this draft class, correct. But those type of QB's aren't really in many draft classes... should the Chiefs wait 10-15 years in hopes of drafting the next "can't miss, sure fire stud QB"? If I'm a Chiefs fan, I'd rather go into next season with Geno Smith or Tyler Wilson or even Matt Barkley (whom I don't like that much) at QB then have the team bring back Cassel or Quinn or get a Matt Flynn or whomever.
Would you feel the same if whoever the Chiefs pick fails? You get another year or two of failure and have to look for a new qb all over again.
Lastly, Ryan Leaf was the correct pick. As bad as it turned out to be.
How do you figure that?
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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That's kind of what I was getting at with my last post. I'm sure many will disagree with me, but I'm of the opinion that there isn't that "OMG, this guy is heads and shoulders better than anyone in the draft and must be taken #1 overall" guy in this draft. That's why I wanted to field opinions as to if people are so against the Chiefs taking a QB #1 overall, then what is definitively a better alternative at this point that is going to improve this team?

Yeah, Joeckel is a fine prospect. As is Te'o, etc. But I don't see elite/can't miss talents in either or anyone else for that matter, IMO.

There is still much to be determined between now and April. But looking at the options available at #1, the Chiefs might not have much choice but to go QB if one is even remotely close to being #1 overall worthy.
If you can not see another elite player in the draft you must not be looking hard. A better option would be to trade down get more picks to improve team and get a qb later on in the draft or in free agency.
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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If you can not see another elite player in the draft you must not be looking hard. A better option would be to trade down get more picks to improve team and get a qb later on in the draft or in free agency.
the same strategy (going lower in draft and free agency for a qb) has worked so well for them recently that this is the time and year it'll be different
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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the same strategy (going lower in draft and free agency for a qb) has worked so well for them recently that this is the time and year it'll be different
Haha, yep, pretty much this. This awesome post deserves some vidae rep.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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the same strategy (going lower in draft and free agency for a qb) has worked so well for them recently that this is the time and year it'll be different
IF there was an elite QB there is no question picking QB would be best but what elite Qb is there? The Chiefs have been building up a team around QB and been unlucky that the QB's they have had are not any good still does not just justify picking a QB first. Picking an average QB which all QB's in this draft are is not going to help much.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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IF there was an elite QB there is no question picking QB would be best but what elite Qb is there? The Chiefs have been building up a team around QB and been unlucky that the QB's they have had are not any good still does not just justify picking a QB first. Picking an average QB which all QB's in this draft are is not going to help much.
neither is picking anyone else. people just don't get this.

no one other than a QB makes sense for them.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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The Chiefs haven't drafted a QB in the first round in three decades. It's no wonder that the franchise has been largely irrelevant in that time. I'm sick of trading for another teams backup or off the scrap heap. We have to be done with that.

And you list Jacksonville and Minnesota as reasons to not do it. When I look at those teams I'm envious. At least they're attempting to fix the most important position in sports. At least they're trying.

And at #1, there are no other glaring needs for this team. There is no WR worthy of a top 10 selection, there is no need for another DT or an OT. QB is the biggest need and we'll be in the position to draft the best one. We have to do it.
I completely agree with you, you cannot be a solid NFL team without a franchise QB and if you don't have one, you draft one till you get it right.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:06 PM    (permalink
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Chiefs trade down or take Joeckel.
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