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Old 12-10-2012, 09:55 AM    (permalink
detroit4life
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I'm starting to think the best thing the lions could do this offseason is go back to back secondary. If we could get Dee Milliner and Eric Reid 1st and second round our defense looks completely different.

I say let Jackson and Willie Young go add it and draft for value at DE. Look for a speed guy later in the draft or FA. We can offer Avril something reasonable and see if he takes it, if not let him walk.

I really think our miserable secondary is affecting our play calling on both sides of the ball. Getting these 2 guys gives us a talented secondary all of a sudden and will take pressure off the rest of our defense.

Our Dline will still get pressure with Suh and Fairley up the middle. I think we are able to get by with the DE's we have and if we add a speed rusher for 3rd downs I don't expect a huge drop off is avril does in fact leave.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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Avril has 9.5 sacks(2 strip) but is so inconsistent. I see him walking due to gaudy stats right now.

Lions need a stud DE, or someone who can at least contain a QB and bring consistent pressure. Maybe it's just the wide 9 problems.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Avril has 9.5 sacks(2 strip) but is so inconsistent. I see him walking due to gaudy stats right now.

Lions need a stud DE, or someone who can at least contain a QB and bring consistent pressure. Maybe it's just the wide 9 problems.
I think Mayhew offers Avril a similar contract he offered last year, maybe a bit lower. Avril will turn it down and test the market, but I don't think he will find a better offer. I would be concerned of his stats because I think they are inflated due to the guys next to him on the dline.

With that said, I would welcome him back if its at fair value. I blame the secondary for a lot of our issues, including lack of consistent pass rush. Our secondary makes it very easy for quick throws because we have to play so soft due to our inept covering ability.

Our seconday is full of a bunch of no names who couldn't make it through camp for other teams. mayhew has ignored this for too long and it should get fixed before we try and evaluate the rest of our defense. A veteran guy at DE who has put up double digit sack numbers should be retained because our Dline will only get better as our secondary gets better.
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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[rhetorical]when's baseball start?[/rhetorical]
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:50 AM    (permalink
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The team will likely have a very solid draft, hopefully concentrating on the secondary.

The biggest issue right now is Schwartz. The player's obviously have tuned him out. The attitude and overall persona of the team absolutely sucks, and that is directly attributable to the coaching staff. I want him canned and a coach brought in who will get the player's attention.

Overall, the team is not that far away.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:15 AM    (permalink
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The team will likely have a very solid draft, hopefully concentrating on the secondary.

The biggest issue right now is Schwartz. The player's obviously have tuned him out. The attitude and overall persona of the team absolutely sucks, and that is directly attributable to the coaching staff. I want him canned and a coach brought in who will get the player's attention.

Overall, the team is not that far away.
Terrible effort in Arizona. All by the offense and special teams though as 3 picks (2 picks 6s and one spotting the ball at Lions 3) and a special teams turnover inside the Lions own 5 yard line cost the Lions 28 points.

If the defense shows up for Detroit, as it did Sunday holding Cards to 10, then of course the offense doesn't show up or in this case was flat out terrible with 3 turnovers and 7 three and outs. Though the Cardinals do have talent on defense and are good at forcing turnovers. Inexcusable loss and alot needs changed. They never show up as a complete team.

Defense has a ton of free agents. Changes will be made. Offensively Burleson is a cap cut, Young is a headache and will be traded. I don't know if Calvin, a gimpy Broyles and Pettigrew/Scheffler can get it done going forward. Oline has been good most of the year but when blitzed they can breakdown.

Lions have way more questions than answers. They don't need a full blown rebuild but right now the offense and defense need alot of work besides the building blocks. Plus Stafford needs to figure alot of things out quickly.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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The Lions are in need of some defensive backs and maybe a DE.
I'm the Lions I look closely at DE, CB and S.
Perhaps Jarvis, Woerner or Montgomery
Joekel, Milliner or T'eo
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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Te'o be my choice. He could be the final nail in what should be a very solid defense.
It probably won't happen but I'd fire Cunningham, we stink on defense and the talent isn't that bad, it should be a middle of the pack group not the rotten apple on this team.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:16 AM    (permalink
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Te'o be my choice. He could be the final nail in what should be a very solid defense.
It probably won't happen but I'd fire Cunningham, we stink on defense and the talent isn't that bad, it should be a middle of the pack group not the rotten apple on this team.
Turnovers and redzone offense need to flip next year.

They need to force more turnovers or at the very least get better at recovering fumbles on both sides of the ball. Lions forced 17 fumbles in 2011 and recovered a whopping 13 in 2011. Very good rate. 2012 they forced 15(only 2 less) and recovered only 6. That's 7 less fumbles gained. Some bad luck there with the bounces but sometimes it's the player for instance KVB picking the ball up and trying to run against the Bears but losing it. Lions had 3 strip sacks in 2012 they didn't recover whereas in 2011 they recovered the ball in those situations almost every time. Avril had 4 more strips in 2012 compared to 2011 as well.

Lions had 10 less picks. Hurt safeties especially Delmas didn't help. Get some safety insurance for Delmas this year in the draft. However, Eric Wright and Alphonso Smith were gamblers and got us picks(7) but got burnt way more than Lacey,Bentley,Green,Bartell ever did. Houston also had 3 less picks in 2012 compared to 2011. That's 10 right there. However, the Lions had about 50 less hurries from DEs in 2012 compared to 2011. A stud DE will hurry QBs which will lead to picks. They need to get Houston back, develop the rookies and maybe draft one more if they are BPA in Round 2 or 3.

Offensively the Lions had 4 more fumbles in 2012 compared to 2011. 2012 they had 24 fumbles compared to 20 in 2011. However, in 2012 they didnt' recover fumbles as well. They recovered 13 of their own 20 fumbles in 2011 and only lost 7. 2012 they only recovered 8 of the 24 and lost 16. That's 9 more fumbles lost in 2012 but only 4 more fumbled. Recover fumbles better and things get better.

Stafford had one more pick in 2012 17 compared to 16 in 2011. Stafford must work on this. When you throw 41 TDs you don't notice 16 picks but when you only throw 20 you notice 17 picks. He had 3 games each year where he threw multiple picks. Injured finger games in 2011 at Bears(4), Carolina (2) Pack(3) for 10 of his 16. 2012 he had 3 vs Rams, 4 vs Cards and 2 vs Pack. 9 of 17 in 3 games. Lions went 1-2 each year in those games. Stafford needs to limit it to 10-12 picks next year and avoid 3 multiple pick games.

Redzone offense must get better. I know Stafford can fix that especially once he gets Pettigrew(big target) and Broyles back(zone beater). Plus Calvin can have a better year TD wise at least with a few more shots to Calvin and a few less tackles at the 1 yard line.

Defense did have many let downs in the 4th Quarter. The pass rush needs to pick it up in those situations and a stud DE would help.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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Turnovers and redzone offense need to flip next year.

They need to force more turnovers or at the very least get better at recovering fumbles on both sides of the ball. Lions forced 17 fumbles in 2011 and recovered a whopping 13 in 2011. Very good rate. 2012 they forced 15(only 2 less) and recovered only 6. That's 7 less fumbles gained. Some bad luck there with the bounces but sometimes it's the player for instance KVB picking the ball up and trying to run against the Bears but losing it. Lions had 3 strip sacks in 2012 they didn't recover whereas in 2011 they recovered the ball in those situations almost every time. Avril had 4 more strips in 2012 compared to 2011 as well.

Lions had 10 less picks. Hurt safeties especially Delmas didn't help. Get some safety insurance for Delmas this year in the draft. However, Eric Wright and Alphonso Smith were gamblers and got us picks(7) but got burnt way more than Lacey,Bentley,Green,Bartell ever did. Houston also had 3 less picks in 2012 compared to 2011. That's 10 right there. However, the Lions had about 50 less hurries from DEs in 2012 compared to 2011. A stud DE will hurry QBs which will lead to picks. They need to get Houston back, develop the rookies and maybe draft one more if they are BPA in Round 2 or 3.

Offensively the Lions had 4 more fumbles in 2012 compared to 2011. 2012 they had 24 fumbles compared to 20 in 2011. However, in 2012 they didnt' recover fumbles as well. They recovered 13 of their own 20 fumbles in 2011 and only lost 7. 2012 they only recovered 8 of the 24 and lost 16. That's 9 more fumbles lost in 2012 but only 4 more fumbled. Recover fumbles better and things get better.

Stafford had one more pick in 2012 17 compared to 16 in 2011. Stafford must work on this. When you throw 41 TDs you don't notice 16 picks but when you only throw 20 you notice 17 picks. He had 3 games each year where he threw multiple picks. Injured finger games in 2011 at Bears(4), Carolina (2) Pack(3) for 10 of his 16. 2012 he had 3 vs Rams, 4 vs Cards and 2 vs Pack. 9 of 17 in 3 games. Lions went 1-2 each year in those games. Stafford needs to limit it to 10-12 picks next year and avoid 3 multiple pick games.

Redzone offense must get better. I know Stafford can fix that especially once he gets Pettigrew(big target) and Broyles back(zone beater). Plus Calvin can have a better year TD wise at least with a few more shots to Calvin and a few less tackles at the 1 yard line.

Defense did have many let downs in the 4th Quarter. The pass rush needs to pick it up in those situations and a stud DE would help.
That's why I like Te'o, he would be a real force on defense against the run, I agree that a top DE would be nice but I'm looking at my board and I don't see a DE worth a top 10 pick, never mind a top 5 pick, Moore and Mingo just look like 3-4 OLB's to me. Te'o would add an Urlacher to our defense and make it a force to be reckoned with. He would greatly increase our FF totals.

As for our offense, the play calling leaves me with a big ??? Stafford set the record for most throws in a season at over 700, a ridiculous total IMO and 17 interceptions isn't bad with those passing totals. We simply have to run the ball more if we want to contend for a Super Bowl, there is no excuse for passing the ball that much. Every time our running attack looked effective, we would pass the ball 20 times in a row, that isn't going to work in the NFL.

I'm starting to question our coaching staff, there can be no excuse for a 4-12 season with the talent on our team. The HC, OC and DC all leave me wondering but I'll give them one more year to prove my doubts wrong.
Getting the 5th pick in the draft could really set this team up for greatness, I won't accept another repeat of this season next year.
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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We simply have to run the ball more if we want to contend for a Super Bowl, there is no excuse for passing the ball that much. Every time our running attack looked effective, we would pass the ball 20 times in a row, that isn't going to work in the NFL.

I'm starting to question our coaching staff, there can be no excuse for a 4-12 season with the talent on our team. The HC, OC and DC all leave me wondering but I'll give them one more year to prove my doubts wrong.
Getting the 5th pick in the draft could really set this team up for greatness, I won't accept another repeat of this season next year.
I love Moore, but I fully agree with all of that. I don't trust any playcalling that has 3 straight throws with 1st and Goal at the 1. Plus Schwartz has got to be accountable for all of the mental mistakes his team makes.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:23 PM    (permalink
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I don't think the Lions are as bad as their record indicates this year, but they weren't as good as their record indicated last year. I've said it before, but I think this is a 7-9 caliber team who had an extremely difficult schedule this year and a very easy schedule last year.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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I don't think the Lions are as bad as their record indicates this year, but they weren't as good as their record indicated last year. I've said it before, but I think this is a 7-9 caliber team who had an extremely difficult schedule this year and a very easy schedule last year.

Lions can compete with anyone but they can't beat the good teams without that extra play that was lacking all year. They made it in the final drive against the Seahawks, they didn't turn the ball over and they finished in the redzone and thus beat a playoff team. Packers swept us again, although we played them much better in both games this year compared to 2011 and we lost to Falcons and 49ers again.

And this year Minnesota became a good team so there's 2 wins into losses. The Bears we actually played better in Soldier Field than we did last year. The home game obviously the Lions were deflated this year at 4-11 instead of 4-0. Lions scored 24 points in both games on MNF in 2011 and Week 17 this year. However, this year Lions had 4 turnovers resulting in 16 Bears offensive points. There's 3 losses and 3 big division losses at that. 2013 Lions better figure out a way to win at least 3 division games.

Titans game. So many fluky plays. 2 long bombs against the backup safeties, 2 special teams returns, the Pettigrew fumble. Similar to the Oakland game but this time the Lions botched the play at the end with the fumble instead of Stafford hitting a game winning TD to Calvin.

at Arizona. Stafford had a 4 pick game without his weapons. He didn't do that against bad teams last year, only the Bears at Soldier Field with his broken finger down 14 in the second half. So will he continue to have one really bad game a year or will he fix that with his weapons back and a healthy finger. 5th win that was a loss.

Indy game/Houston games. Lions had the lead but couldn't close in the 4th Quarter. Last year against AFC teams the Lions did close against San Diego and KC and Denver. Indy and Houston are both much better than San Diego and Kansas City. 7 losses that could be wins.

We'll see how the Lions draft and respond. They better win 3 division games though and beat the Bucs, at Arizona, at Philly, at Cleveland next year as the starting point. Cincy,Balitmore, Giants and Cowboys at home will be a challenge and at Pittsburgh and at Washington will be even tougher.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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Lions can compete with anyone but they can't beat the good teams without that extra play that was lacking all year. They made it in the final drive against the Seahawks, they didn't turn the ball over and they finished in the redzone and thus beat a playoff team.
I put that entirely on Schwartz and the coaching staff. Its discipline, whether its maturity off the field, discipline on defense or special teams, the ability to focus on not drop critical 3rd down balls, or the coach not making silly mistakes.

Look at the Indianapolis Colts. They are the exact opposite. They 11-5 with a negative 30 point differential. They will themselves to victory, whereas the Lions just fold. We arguably have more talent and should be more effective on offense, but they have "it".
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:14 AM    (permalink
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Default What we really need is to play good football

If we were to look at what the Lions do well on offense and defense, we might be able to find answers.

We do not defend the pass well. We give up way too many big plays.
Now, the Lions have had secondary issues for five generations it seems. Okay, I am subject to hyperbole. We have not one of our back four under contract and things might only get worse as Houston and Delmas will both be shooting for the moon. Avril will be shooting for the moon, too. Our DL is very stout but it could use a pass rusher.
Jarvis Jones, Barkevious Mingo, DeMontre Moore, Bjeorn Werner, Ezekial Ansah....all fill in for Cliff and are cheaper alternatives when thinking about Houston and Delmas, assuming we intend to sign both. Also we could go Milliner or Banks or Vaccaro. Throwing in a safety who might be available when we draft in the 2nd, Phillip Thomas gives us a potential Delmas, Thomas, Houston and one of Green, Greenwood and Bentley for our starting DB's.

With just getting an impact DE and a solid safety we might just improve by leaps and bounds.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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I put that entirely on Schwartz and the coaching staff. Its discipline, whether its maturity off the field, discipline on defense or special teams, the ability to focus on not drop critical 3rd down balls, or the coach not making silly mistakes.

Look at the Indianapolis Colts. They are the exact opposite. They 11-5 with a negative 30 point differential. They will themselves to victory, whereas the Lions just fold. We arguably have more talent and should be more effective on offense, but they have "it".
Lions willed themselves to victory last year under Schwartz. Especially against at Minnesota, Dallas, Carolina and Oakland. They just couldn't do it against Minnesota twice, Chicago twice, Titans, Indy, Houston and Green Bay twice this year but were very close in every one of those games. Maybe next year Pettigrew doesn't drop the TD in the endzone, Bell/LeShoure don't fumble each in both Bears games, Lions don't have a pick 6 and finish the FG drive for a TD against the Packers at home, Lions make the FG in OT like against Houston and don't botch a snap in OT like the Titan game. And don't give up 2 scoring drives in the 4th like against the Colts.

They need the pass rush in the 4th Quarter from either the DTs or DEs and a playmaker to force turnovers via the pass rush or in the secondary. Lions had 50 less hurries last year from DEs and thus 10 less picks. They recovered 7 less fumbles as well while forcing only 2 less. Wright and Smith gambled alot though and Lacey, Green and Bartell covered way better than Wright/Smith/McDonald ever did. Bentley was up and down and Florence sucked after his injury and Green had one bad game against Atlanta. Bartell did solid in his one game.

A stud DE and a good safety to pair with Delmas make this a good team again. If they add a speed back too the offense because much more explosive. Lions averaged 26.5 PPG offensively in 2011 and 25 PPG before all the injuries this year to the WRS and Pettigrew. 18 PPG average in the last 4 games by Detroit in 2012 due to injuries.

Lions also had 49 points from defensive scores in 2011 and 0 in 2012. Lions need to figure out a way to make that happen again with more pressure or at the very least not allow 10 going the other way from the offensive mistakes and special teams. Each one of those type of mistakes was a Lions loss.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:11 AM    (permalink
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Sooooooooo.......

Lets fire Gunther and hire Rob Ryan. He seems like fun.
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:51 AM    (permalink
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Default Our secondary has been overmatched for longer than I care to remember

We really must pick up a proficient Safety and resign Houston or teams will continue to rape our secondary when the games are on the line.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:20 PM    (permalink
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To be fair to the Lions, our SOS was the Toughest in the whole NFL, I'm sure next year we will likely get a much easier schedule, so we may well rebound back to playoff contention.
I'm not happy with the coaching staff but getting Ford to fire people is no easy task and perhaps they deserve one last chance at the ring before dismantling them but face it, Ford kept Millen for almost 8 years, so we may be stuck with our HC for quite awhile since Ford doesn't use performance to judge who he fires..
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:59 AM    (permalink
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To be fair to the Lions, our SOS was the Toughest in the whole NFL, I'm sure next year we will likely get a much easier schedule, so we may well rebound back to playoff contention.
I'm not happy with the coaching staff but getting Ford to fire people is no easy task and perhaps they deserve one last chance at the ring before dismantling them but face it, Ford kept Millen for almost 8 years, so we may be stuck with our HC for quite awhile since Ford doesn't use performance to judge who he fires..
Not playing Atlanta and San Fran for Tampa and at Arizona will help. Though I seem to recall a whooping by Arizona so we better not have 4 terrible turnovers next year gifting the Cardinals 28 points. NFC East is really mediocre especially if RG3 can't go against the Lions and we get the Giants and Cowboys at home. We can beat the Eagles on the road especially if they are sticking with Foles. AFC North will be tough though other than Cleveland but it's at Cleveland. Baltimore and Cincy are at home too so that helps.

However, it all starts with the division. The Lions are dealing with 3 10+ win teams. You can't be playoff competitive without 3 division wins at least. They need to figure out a way to beat their division rivals other than when Minnesota completely sucks like 2011 or Best(who probably won't play again for the Lions) has a monster game.
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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The Lions beat absolutely nobody this year. Teams they were better than, supposedly. Loss after loss.
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Old 01-21-2013, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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My take on "how far away are the Lions?" goes to quality roster talent (not #1-6) which are great players imo, put players #7-35 which tend to win you championships. The 4 teams playing yesterday displayed this very well. With a scouting department that is solid, a GM who has a plan & a coach who implements it all. Sure Johnson, Stafford, Suh, Fairly, Houston can start/play on Baltimore, SF, GB, Atlanta, Houston, NE but the next tier of players are waaaaaay off in talent level in Detroit. That is alarming to me & since the 0-16 roster gutting they are still a middle of the pack (at best) franchise based on "on field" talent. So Mayhew should be lookng over his shoulder once his best efforts put together the 2013 Lions roster. We'll see but changes could be coming. There is a ton riding of this draft, since not much will be done in FA.
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Old 01-21-2013, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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My take on "how far away are the Lions?" goes to quality roster talent (not #1-6) which are great players imo, put players #7-35 which tend to win you championships. The 4 teams playing yesterday displayed this very well. With a scouting department that is solid, a GM who has a plan & a coach who implements it all. Sure Johnson, Stafford, Suh, Fairly, Houston can start/play on Baltimore, SF, GB, Atlanta, Houston, NE but the next tier of players are waaaaaay off in talent level in Detroit. That is alarming to me & since the 0-16 roster gutting they are still a middle of the pack (at best) franchise based on "on field" talent. So Mayhew should be lookng over his shoulder once his best efforts put together the 2013 Lions roster. We'll see but changes could be coming. There is a ton riding of this draft, since not much will be done in FA.
I agree, next season will be telling and my expectations are pretty high, unfortunately, if the team under performs, the owner is still Ford which by definition, means little will change for the better as far as management is concerned.
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Old 01-21-2013, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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I agree, next season will be telling and my expectations are pretty high, unfortunately, if the team under performs, the owner is still Ford which by definition, means little will change for the better as far as management is concerned.
Next year I think it is playoffs or everyone is gone. I think this is why Mayhew didn't force Schwartz to fire coordinators. Mayhew has now handcuffed himself to these coaches.

Our division should be easier next year, Bears take a step back with new coaches and that old team is once again a year older, Packers are going to lose some talent but I assume they will fix their oline so they may be better, and Vikings have peaked IMO as long as Ponder is still their QB.

With our high draft picks and our youth, there is no reason to think we won't be the most improved team in the NFC North this offseason. Like I said in an earlier post, we were a top 16 team statistically in all areas of the game (except rushing, shocker I know). So while we looked bad, the results were abysmal. I still think if we can plug some of our gaping holes, this team is a playoff team.

The talent doesn't concern me as much as the mental situation our team seems to have...
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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Next year I think it is playoffs or everyone is gone. I think this is why Mayhew didn't force Schwartz to fire coordinators. Mayhew has now handcuffed himself to these coaches.

Our division should be easier next year, Bears take a step back with new coaches and that old team is once again a year older, Packers are going to lose some talent but I assume they will fix their oline so they may be better, and Vikings have peaked IMO as long as Ponder is still their QB.

With our high draft picks and our youth, there is no reason to think we won't be the most improved team in the NFC North this offseason. Like I said in an earlier post, we were a top 16 team statistically in all areas of the game (except rushing, shocker I know). So while we looked bad, the results were abysmal. I still think if we can plug some of our gaping holes, this team is a playoff team.

The talent doesn't concern me as much as the mental situation our team seems to have...
Solid teams often fire the whole lot but teams with weak owners often fire only the co-ordinators then fire the HC next season if no improvement occurs. The GM can often survive till the HC gets fired. However, this is the Lions and Ford kept Millen for 8+ years so you really think he'd fire Mayhew, I don't.
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