MVP as we head out of November

[Forenci]

Originally Posted by Halsey

Blah Blah Blah Peterson is going to win it. He's a different and more interesting MVP than Manning/Brady/Rodgers. Peterson is not the MVP when measured on pure value, but he has a fair argument as "Most Outstanding".

Hah. Okay? A running back took one of he worst teams in the NFL and carried them into the playoffs. I don't see how you get more valuable than that. With no offensive weapons outside himself, defenses game planning pretty much entirely for him, and a QB who is incapable of stretching the field, I'm pretty damn sure he's the most valuable player.

Not to mention he did it at absurd YPC and almost broke one of the most coveted records in the NFL whilst carrying his team into the playoffs.

Just because the NFL rules favor quarterbacks and it puts them in control of more situations, it doesn't necessarily mean other players can't be more valuable. And how you come up with "value" is also widely debatable. There are many things which can make a player valuable.

[descendency]

Originally Posted by Forenci

Hah. Okay? A running back took one of he worst teams in the NFL and carried them into the playoffs. I don't see how you get more valuable than that. With no offensive weapons outside himself, defenses game planning pretty much entirely for him, and a QB who is incapable of stretching the field, I'm pretty damn sure he's the most valuable player.

Not to mention he did it at absurd YPC and almost broke one of the most coveted records in the NFL whilst carrying his team into the playoffs.

Just because the NFL rules favor quarterbacks and it puts them in control of more situations, it doesn't necessarily mean other players can't be more valuable. And how you come up with "value" is also widely debatable. There are many things which can make a player valuable.

Value is the player who most (positively) impacts their team's relevance. If your team is irrelevant (see Brees and the Saints, 2008), then you have no hope of getting an MVP.

AP will definitely get votes.

Rodgers and Brady have similar arguments for it, but I think Manning will get it over them.

[Halsey]

Peterson doesn't have the pure value of the elite QBs. They touch the ball every offensive play and exercise more control. You won't see Peterson changing the call at the LOS anytime soon.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Originally Posted by Halsey

Peterson doesn't have the pure value of the elite QBs. They touch the ball every offensive play and exercise more control. You won't see Peterson changing the call at the LOS anytime soon.

But that's like saying a pass rusher shouldn't win DPOY because they aren't in on every tackle, they don't play coverage, and they don't make the defensive calls like the typical MIKE.

[Mufasa]

Some people just want to reduce the award down to best QB.

[descendency]

Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP

But that's like saying a pass rusher shouldn't win DPOY because they aren't in on every tackle, they don't play coverage, and they don't make the defensive calls like the typical MIKE.

Except on defense, the responsibilities are distributed much more evenly than on offense.

Just ask the Chiefs how important a QB is. Or Vikings fans (when they had Favre...).

[njx9]

i'm not sure there's a candidate i'd really argue shouldn't get it, out of all of the guys who seem to be in the running. similar to the oroty, there are a bunch of guys with a fantastic claim. i'd like to see AD get it, but i have low expectations that the voters will give it to a non-QB.

[Mufasa]

See I think that really shows that he should be the winner. The only reason that people can come up with for Peterson to not win is that he isn't a QB. He has been the best and most dominant player in the league this year, he lead his team into the playoffs, and he has incredible stats that no one else at his position touches. Use that last sentence as a description of a QB and everyone would agree that's the MVP.

[descendency]

Originally Posted by Mufasa

Some people just want to reduce the award down to best QB.

The reason for that is simple.

A great year by a RB is still 0.5 as many yards as a good year by a QB, half as many touchdowns, and often as many turnovers.

QBs are responsible for controlling the offense. If the box is loaded, the play is audibled to a pass by the QB. Protections are called by the QB. Tempo is controlled by the QB.

I'm not in favor of having an MVP trophy at all - because comparing positions is pointless. Just give out trophies to the best at each position.

[dannyz]

My two cents are look at the teams.Denver won a playoff game with Tebow and you give that team a HOF QB they should be Great, Vikings have a bad QB no real threats at Reciever and teams sell out to stop AD and he still breaks big runs.

I look at the word Valuable, take Manning off the Broncos and they still win that division but take Peterson off the Vikings and they might be one of the Worst teams in the NFL. This is just my Opinion.

[BloodBrother]

Originally Posted by Mufasa

See I think that really shows that he should be the winner. The only reason that people can come up with for Peterson to not win is that he isn't a QB. He has been the best and most dominant player in the league this year, he lead his team into the playoffs, and he has incredible stats that no one else at his position touches. Use that last sentence as a description of a QB and everyone would agree that's the MVP.

JJ Watt's season still puts me in complete awe. That's about as dominating as it gets, but a D player winning MVP just isn't going to happen

[AntoinCD]

The same stuff just keeps going round and round in this thread.

Without Peterson being ridiculous the Vikings wouldn't be one of the worst teams in the league. He played simply ok to start the season and the Vikings had a winning record because they had a viable receiving threat in Percy Harvin who was tearing it up which also opened things up for Rudolph. These two players being healthy and open helped Ponder. When Harvin went down AD picked up the slack. I would like to point people's attention to the Percy Harvin thread in this section from around the second week in October when many, including Vikings fans, were saying at that point he (Harvin) should be considered for both offensive player of the year and MVP.

So, if Peterson doesn't go on his run the Vikings probably finish with about 6 wins. Not great but definitely not KC or Jacksonville bad so that argument really holds no water.

Secondly, the argument against Manning saying the Broncos won a playoff game last year so how much value has he added? Well, the Broncos play in an extremely weak division. 2 of the 3 teams they play twice will be picking in the top 3. San Diego are also a flawed team with little talent and terrible coaching. Denver have a solid team and really should walk that division with any QB remotely capable of being a starter. However, the difference between this year's Broncos and last year's is Tebow won on miracle plays and the defense stepped up when it mattered. Peyton has the Broncos winning consistently and easily and they have wound up with a #1 seed. Likely playing a team like the Patriots in the AFCCG at Mile High instead of Gillette is absolutely huge. So, IMO Manning didn't make the Broncos a little bit better, he made them way better.

Thirdly, JMike just stop.

And lastly, this all comes down to perceived value. People are making ridiculous statements about how others want to make this a QB award. Well, then petition the league to change the name because unless there are some huge changes to the game or a player from another position simply tears the whole league apart on a winning team then a QB is going to be the most valuable player, period. Let me clarify, this award is not for the best player, not for the most dominant, not for the guy who is so far ahead of all others at his position, not for the guy with the best story etc this is for the most valuable player in the league this year

However after my rant, I will now state what I said a while earlier. I have no issue with Peterson winning this award this year. The Vikings are in the playoffs because of Peterson. In the second half of the season he had more yards than Ponder. That said it would still be a toss up in my mind with Manning

[Saints-Tigers]

Another position would be hard pressed to be more valuable than the top QB's this year, but if you want to give points for dominating from your position more thoroughly than we thought possible, the choice would easily be Watt, not Peterson.

[49ers1984]

Originally Posted by Forenci

Hah. Okay? A running back took one of he worst teams in the NFL and carried them into the playoffs. I don't see how you get more valuable than that. With no offensive weapons outside himself, defenses game planning pretty much entirely for him, and a QB who is incapable of stretching the field, I'm pretty damn sure he's the most valuable player.

Not to mention he did it at absurd YPC and almost broke one of the most coveted records in the NFL whilst carrying his team into the playoffs.

Just because the NFL rules favor quarterbacks and it puts them in control of more situations, it doesn't necessarily mean other players can't be more valuable. And how you come up with "value" is also widely debatable. There are many things which can make a player valuable.

I am not as high on Peterson as some people. If he had gotten the record it would have been different but without the record what does he have a lot of yards on a team that barely made the playoffs. As much as some people may not like it wins do matter like in 2008 Drew Brees was having an MVP season withe #1 offense while having to carry the team because of bad defense. Because the Saints were 8-8 that year though he did not win the MVP. Voters do not like to give MVP to players on average to below average teams.

[MaxV]

Originally Posted by Halsey

Peterson doesn't have the pure value of the elite QBs. They touch the ball every offensive play and exercise more control. You won't see Peterson changing the call at the LOS anytime soon.

Usually, I would agree with RB not having the same value, but this year Peterson ABSOLUTELY had as much value to his team as any QB.

Vikings aren't going to the playoffs because of Ponder, I can assure you of that.

[Malaka]

I pray Peterson wins it. If he doesn't win it with his outstanding season, and no clear QB deserving the MVP award then we may as well call the award the Best QB award.

If Peterson can't win it, we won't see a position other than QB win it for a very very long time.

[prock]

Originally Posted by 49ers1984

I am not as high on Peterson as some people. If he had gotten the record it would have been different but without the record what does he have a lot of yards on a team that barely made the playoffs. As much as some people may not like it wins do matter like in 2008 Drew Brees was having an MVP season withe #1 offense while having to carry the team because of bad defense. Because the Saints were 8-8 that year though he did not win the MVP. Voters do not like to give MVP to players on average to below average teams.

They made the playoffs. AD was 9 yards short. If he breaks it by one yard is he suddenly more valuable? You didn't make a single half decent point.

[Denver Bronco56]

I think a ridiculous point of Manning already having 4 MVPs is some justification for him not to win another is just dumb... this isnt a charity event, if he plays well enough i have no issue with him having 10... just because he has won it before and peterson has not... is totally irrelevant

[49ers1984]

Originally Posted by prock

They made the playoffs. AD was 9 yards short. If he breaks it by one yard is he suddenly more valuable? You didn't make a single half decent point.

They did make the playoffs but barely. In voters eyes any year where a player breaks a record it makes them a lot more valuable in their eyes.

[49ers1984]

Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56

I think a ridiculous point of Manning already having 4 MVPs is some justification for him not to win another is just dumb... this isnt a charity event, if he plays well enough i have no issue with him having 10... just because he has won it before and peterson has not... is totally irrelevant

That is correct past awards should not matter why he should not win is he has not been better then Peterson, Brady or Rodgers this year.

[Denver Bronco56]

Well that is arguable because i think taking a team that was a joke on Offense last year and had no business making the playoffs to the best record in the NFL and arguably the most complete team in the NFL, having the 2nd best season in his HOF career after the severity of his injuries, playing with a completely new cast and coaches is pretty impressive... but to each his own.

[yo123]

Lol I expected to come in here and see that people had come around on Peterson, because he is absolutely 100% the MVP at this point. It's not even close.

Look at what he did the last month, when the Vikings absolutely couldn't slip up even once if they wanted to make the playoffs. He had 651 yards in those games, averaging 5.7 yards per carry against 3 good teams (and the Rams, who are average)

A month ago I picked Manning to win it, but at this point it's not close. Who is the best team he's beaten this year? Baltimore? Cincinatti? They had 3 chances to beat an elite team this year and lost all three, and it took late comebacks to make the scores look respectable.

People get so caught up with quarterback being the most valuable position, and they're right it is. That doesn't even remotely mean it's impossible for a running back to be more valuable. Peterson just had arguably the best season a RB has ever had, what Peyton has done this year is done on a regular basis.

[Denver Bronco56]

Originally Posted by yo123

Lol I expected to come in here and see that people had come around on Peterson, because he is absolutely 100% the MVP at this point. It's not even close.

Look at what he did the last month, when the Vikings absolutely couldn't slip up even once if they wanted to make the playoffs. He had 651 yards in those games, averaging 5.7 yards per carry against 3 good teams (and the Rams, who are average)

A month ago I picked Manning to win it, but at this point it's not close. Who is the best team he's beaten this year? Baltimore? Cincinatti? They had 3 chances to beat an elite team this year and lost all three, and it took late comebacks to make the scores look respectable.

People get so caught up with quarterback being the most valuable position, and they're right it is. That doesn't even remotely mean it's impossible for a running back to be more valuable. Peterson just had arguably the best season a RB has ever had, what Peyton has done this year is done on a regular basis.

Two issues...

1) DUDE sat out 18 months, his 3 losses were in the first five weeks of the season and was still learning the players and system as well as getting back into football shape. Since then he has been on fire and has won 11 straight.. A month ago you picked manning, but yet you are still trying to talk about his three losses? he had those a month ago...

2) Best season for a HB is debatable... he didnt break the rushing record and didnt come close to the total yardage mark, or Touchdown mark... THE ONLY thing that is mindblowing about his season is he was coming off an ACL and was able to do what he did.

But other HB's have had success after an ACL, NO OTHER QB has come back from loosing all feeling and nerve damage in his throwing arm... Manning coming back from his injury was far more impressive than a HB coming back from an ACL

[MaxV]

Coming back from injury is hardly THE ONLY thing mind-blowing about 2,000 yard rushing season.

[gpngc]

My final ballot (I don't have an official vote though):

1) Adrian Peterson
2) Peyton Manning
3) Aaron Rodgers
4) Tom Brady
5) Glenn Cofee