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Old 12-26-2012, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
I think his workouts will put Margus somewhere in the top 32.

There just aren't many guys in the NFL that size with Hunt's combo of athletic tools.
Yeah, I definitely think he'll end up being a 1st round pick.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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I'm not going to take him top 10-15, but after 20 he is probably worth the risk. There just aren't that many humans a that move like that at that size. His work outs could really blow people away. He said somewhere is aiming for 4.6 & 45 reps on bench.

Two important dates for him are the Combine & the Senior Bowl. We really need to see him up close against good competition all week. It will do a lot for his stock if he does well there in a real football situation.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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I'm not going to take him top 10-15, but after 20 he is probably worth the risk. There just aren't that many humans a that move like that at that size. His work outs could really blow people away. He said somewhere is aiming for 4.6 & 45 reps on bench.

Two important dates for him are the Combine & the Senior Bowl. We really need to see him up close against good competition all week. It will do a lot for his stock if he does well there in a real football situation.

It was an awesome performance. But, an important date that is going to work against him is his DOB. He's going to be 26 before he ever plays a game. Might knock him down a few spots.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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It was an awesome performance. But, an important date that is going to work against him is his DOB. He's going to be 26 before he ever plays a game. Might knock him down a few spots.
I doubt it. When you're this physically talented i'm sure teams would be willing to overlook it.

Just look at what JJ Watt, Aldon Smith and Von Miller are doing in their second seasons.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:04 PM    (permalink
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It was an awesome performance. But, an important date that is going to work against him is his DOB. He's going to be 26 before he ever plays a game. Might knock him down a few spots.
Meh. We've seen in the past couple of drafts with Weeden and the OG from Baylor whose name currently escapes me, that age doesn't play as big of a deal to NFL teams as we think. Especially once they start to get towards the end of the 1st round.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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Would not touch him in the 1st round.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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Meh. We've seen in the past couple of drafts with Weeden and the OG from Baylor whose name currently escapes me, that age doesn't play as big of a deal to NFL teams as we think. Especially once they start to get towards the end of the 1st round.
Danny Watkins by Philly. And, he's been a flop. Not comparing Hunt to him. Just sayin. I'm still scratching my head over the Weeden pick. But, hey. The Browns know what they're doing
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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Somewhat reminiscent of Watt.
And it's begun. LOL seriously though he's a good prospect. Age and level of competition would be many team's only concerns but someone is going to get a good player in the 2nd round.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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He's a stud physically (obviously), but he's not a first rounder. Lacks technique and his age will be a factor.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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I like Hunt, but I still don't think he should warrant a first round pick. That being said, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if some team takes a chance on him in the late first. And as much as I hate to say it, Bill Belichick will probably drool like a mad man when he gets Hunt in for a private workout.
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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6'8" is a big DE..... Had a good bowl game for sure...watched it on tv and can't argue with his production at 6'8" 280.

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Old 12-28-2012, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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Having a 3 sack bowl game with his size won't hurt his draft stock thats for sure
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Old 12-29-2012, 02:00 AM    (permalink
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Having a 3 sack bowl game with his size won't hurt his draft stock thats for sure
Wasn't he lined up against a Freshman that night?

Evaluators are going to care more about the level of competition than the profile of the game.
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:49 AM    (permalink
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If Hunt can be an impact player for most of his rookie contract, I don't think his age will be a factor.
I would think a guy that big/fast/strong could still play in the NFL at a decent level until he's 35.

You can get him on the cheap as a rookie and if Margus pans out, you could have a beast 34 DE in two years.
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Old 12-29-2012, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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A potential matchup at the Senior
Bowl with Fisher of CMU could be very interesting.
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Old 12-29-2012, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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If Hunt can be an impact player for most of his rookie contract, I don't think his age will be a factor.
I would think a guy that big/fast/strong could still play in the NFL at a decent level until he's 35.

You can get him on the cheap as a rookie and if Margus pans out, you could have a beast 34 DE in two years.
Right - teams don't spend first round picks on players thinking they'll have them for a decade, it's about having the immediate rights to a player. If it's a guy they can get even a few pretty dominant seasons out of, they're willing to spend. Look at what the Raiders did to get Carson Palmer. It's not always about how long they think a player will play for them, but rather how badly they want a player or how much of a need they have on their depth chart. I'd like to see him go to a situation in the NFL where he isn't the best D-lineman on his team, nor is he expected to be. If he gets to the NFL and as is playing with lineman who are better than him, he's not going to be facing double-teams and blockers aren't necessarily going to be keying on him specifically, so he could find himself in isolated matchups on a regular basis, and for a player who's drafted for his physical tools and athleticism, that's what you want. I'd worry more about him getting stonewalled by a double team because he's never been blocked by two NFL-caliber players at the same time. If it's just he and a team's second-best tackle alone on the edge, I'd expect that raw athleticism to be evident while he continues to develop his technique.

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Old 12-30-2012, 08:46 AM    (permalink
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If Hunt can be an impact player for most of his rookie contract, I don't think his age will be a factor.
I would think a guy that big/fast/strong could still play in the NFL at a decent level until he's 35.

You can get him on the cheap as a rookie and if Margus pans out, you could have a beast 34 DE in two years.
He isn't so old that you worry about how long he plays but he is old enough that he is far more physically mature than his competition. I absolutely hate overraged OL/DL prospects.

Gaines Adams
Peria Jerry
Danny Watkins

These guys were all overraged prospects that didn't even start to dominate their respective positions until they were at an age where most of their peers had graduated. Adams was a 6th year non-qualifier as a senior, he only won his starting job in his 5th season. Jerry was 25 when he left college, and Danny Watkins was 27. All three of these guys had quite a bit of an advantage over his competitors that were mostly in the 19-21 year old range.

That being said, Hunt is a UNIQUE physical talent. His talent is unique even by NFL standards but that being said, he has not consistently played well even when playing against far younger, weaker, and lesser competition and there is no reason to think he will walk into the NFL and dominate from day one as he has struggled at times against collegiate opponents despite being physically faster, stronger, and more mature.

Going into the NFL, the competition will be far better and Hunt will likely struggle until he learns better technique. With him being 26, I wouldn't touch Hunt until the mid to latter stages of round 2.
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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That being said, Hunt is a UNIQUE physical talent. His talent is unique even by NFL standards ...
What talent does Margus Hunt have that Calais Campbell does not?

I mean, no two players are exactly alike, so every player is unique in some sense. But the NFL does have players who are big, long, and strong. Hunt's not the first of his kind.

I mean, Hunt probably throws the discus better than anybody in the NFL, but I doubt that's going to come up in a game.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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What talent does Margus Hunt have that Calais Campbell does not?

I mean, no two players are exactly alike, so every player is unique in some sense. But the NFL does have players who are big, long, and strong. Hunt's not the first of his kind.

I mean, Hunt probably throws the discus better than anybody in the NFL, but I doubt that's going to come up in a game.
No, I'm not including the discuss. What is unique is that he is 6'8 280 lbs and runs extremely well (supposedly in the 4.6-4.7 range). Yes, Calais Campbell was/is 6'8 300 lbs, but he doesn't/didn't run all that well (5.0 at Pro Day and 5.04 at combine).

He compares physically very favorably to Mario Williams, Julius Peppers, and JJ Watt. That is pretty unique because they are the only heigh weight speed players similiar to Hunt. That is pretty unique.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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Watt,Williams and Peppers did it in college.

If his triangle numbers are anywhere near what they are reported to be, he will go quick. Now as far as the age thing goes, I used to think it mattered. I just don't anymore. Many players have been drafted in their mid to late twenties. I have to agree with the poster that said teams are looking for a quick payoff.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:22 PM    (permalink
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Watt,Williams and Peppers did it in college.

If his triangle numbers are anywhere near what they are reported to be, he will go quick. Now as far as the age thing goes, I used to think it mattered. I just don't anymore. Many players have been drafted in their mid to late twenties. I have to agree with the poster that said teams are looking for a quick payoff.
Yeah, but the guy is raw. Not great technique, and for the most part, absolutely did not dominate in C-USA. What more can you say?

You don't think age matters? It matters for sure, especially in the trenches. Older, more mature players are physically stronger, faster, heavier, and mentally and emotionally more mature and have a big advantage over younger players.

Look at it this way. Clemson's Gaines Adams was a non-qualifier out of high school and went to a prep-type school out of high school. That was year 1. Year 2 he went to Clemson and was redshirted. Year 3 he barely played. Year 4 he started some games at the end of the year and looked like he might be good (at an age that players that haven't burned their redshirt were seniors). Year 5, he won a starting job and established himself as a player to watch. Year 6, All-American, all world, all everything... at an age that even players that were redshirted were no longer in college.

So as a 6th year senior at Clemson, basically being a man among boys, he finally dominated. It took him 6 seasons to establish himself as a great player. He was nearly 24 years old playing against a bunch of guys that weren't much more than kids that were for the most part, 19-21. Then he went to the NFL at the age of 24 where all the players are physically mature and he struggled greatly.

Other instances of overaged players struggling because they couldn't adjust to going against physically more mature players:

DT Peria Jerry (25 when drafted)
OG Danny Watkins (27 when drafted)
OT Moe Elowinibi (24, turning 25 when drafted)

These guys just couldn't adjust. Now Hunt is extremely gifted athletically... but his biggest issue is production. Obviously there's a lot he still has to learn.. and while he is learning this, he will be getting older... and by the time he learns it... he may be 28-29. He shouldn't be a first rounder.,, I think a 25 year old senior totalling only 30 tackles, 11.5 tfl and 8 sacks playing in CUSA is a safe bet to not be taken in round 1 no matter what he runs, lifts, or measures in at.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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All-time worst overaged prospects are two QBs that used their maturity on an emotional level far more than their physical maturity... Chris Weinke, and Chris Weinke 2.0 (aka Brandon Weeden). I couldn't believe the Browns, or any organization, would be stupid enough to burn anything higher than a 3rd rounder on a 29 year old rookie....STUPID!!!
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:48 PM    (permalink
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I just don't like the fact that outside of his last two bowl appearances, he has been virtually quiet.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:19 AM    (permalink
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I'm not a big fan of numbers guys who don't put up the stats they should, but I'd take the risk with a late 1st or 2nd. At that point its a better risk/reward depending on who else is available. They guy only has a couple years of football experience and substantial tools. If he can keep working on his technique and being a football player then he could be an impact guy. DE/DT isn't a mental position and guys with tools can dominate.

His floor is low but his ceiling is pretty damn high. His stock will dramatically change at the senior bowl and combine for better or for worst.
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brasho View Post
Yeah, but the guy is raw. Not great technique, and for the most part, absolutely did not dominate in C-USA. What more can you say?

You don't think age matters? It matters for sure, especially in the trenches. Older, more mature players are physically stronger, faster, heavier, and mentally and emotionally more mature and have a big advantage over younger players.

Look at it this way. Clemson's Gaines Adams was a non-qualifier out of high school and went to a prep-type school out of high school. That was year 1. Year 2 he went to Clemson and was redshirted. Year 3 he barely played. Year 4 he started some games at the end of the year and looked like he might be good (at an age that players that haven't burned their redshirt were seniors). Year 5, he won a starting job and established himself as a player to watch. Year 6, All-American, all world, all everything... at an age that even players that were redshirted were no longer in college.

So as a 6th year senior at Clemson, basically being a man among boys, he finally dominated. It took him 6 seasons to establish himself as a great player. He was nearly 24 years old playing against a bunch of guys that weren't much more than kids that were for the most part, 19-21. Then he went to the NFL at the age of 24 where all the players are physically mature and he struggled greatly.

Other instances of overaged players struggling because they couldn't adjust to going against physically more mature players:

DT Peria Jerry (25 when drafted)
OG Danny Watkins (27 when drafted)
OT Moe Elowinibi (24, turning 25 when drafted)

These guys just couldn't adjust. Now Hunt is extremely gifted athletically... but his biggest issue is production. Obviously there's a lot he still has to learn.. and while he is learning this, he will be getting older... and by the time he learns it... he may be 28-29. He shouldn't be a first rounder.,, I think a 25 year old senior totalling only 30 tackles, 11.5 tfl and 8 sacks playing in CUSA is a safe bet to not be taken in round 1 no matter what he runs, lifts, or measures in at.
My god. I was compelled to register after reading this travesty of a thread, especially posts like the one above.

Some of you guys remind me of the Texans fans that booed JJ Watt when he was selected in 2011, people that don't know even the most basic things about the game, like the difference between a 4-3 and a 3-4 defensive end.

It's not a good idea to fire up cfbstats and then evaluate all of the defensive ends based on the number of sacks they've accumulated over a season.

Find me a 3-4 defensive end in college football that was as dominating a pass rusher as Margus Hunt this year(hint: there isn't one). Find me one that is even anywhere near as good at busting through double teams. Start with the other 3-4 ends invited to the Senior Bowl. Look at footage, don't go stat hunting.

As far as techique? He's come a long way from his very first year of football. He's good at staying low going around the edge and using a hook to help turn the corner. I've seen him use over/under moves on the inside. He uses his hands well, and he has good understanding of leverage.

And as has been said, he's still "raw". This is only his fourth year of football. He's already an incredible pass rusher from the inside or outside, and he's only going to get much better as he hones his abilities. It's ridiculous to compare him to past older college players that had a decade or more of playing experience. They had already peaked. Hunt's upside is insane.

He's the best 3-4 end available and the best overall pass rusher available, and will be maybe the biggest combine phenomena ever.

He's a top five pick. Adjust your mocks accordingly.
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