New England Patriots Discussion

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

I like Hightower in 34 sets too. While he's not going to be mistaken for Derrick Brooks in coverage he is way better than your average stand up DE made into an OLB. Likewise, while he isn't going to be effective rushing the QB 35-40 times per game he is a very good blitzer.

I just don't see the Pats going back to a predimonantly 34 front. Belichick has stated he sees Jones as an end of the line player and Jones has stood up quite a lot this year so I don't see him as a 5 or even 6 technique. Having Jones as a rush backer doesn't fit his strenghts IMO.

I also like Mayo way better as a WILL than inside in a 34. It's no coincidence that Pats fans thought he didn't make enough big plays inside, then when moved to WILL he starts making big plays.

I like the front if they can add someone beside Wilfork. Sheldon Richardson would be amazing in the first and Sylvester Williams is also a guy i really like. In the second I would look at guys like Floyd and Short

Well they run nickel more than half the time anyways so there are plenty of looks that Jones would get from a rush end, but I don't entirely agree that 4-3 DE is necessarily his best position either. Jones is actually pretty slow out of his stance, his best asset is his length and his ability to leverage that length to disengage. By shading him over a tackle you're giving him plenty of space to work with considering the attention Wilfork draws in the middle, and you're giving him a better position to disrupt passing lanes and a faster route to the QB. I think he's stout enough to hold up now, and he has space to add more weight on his frame. He may not get as many sacks as he would at end, but I could see him having a hand in more plays though.

I think Spikes and Hightower both fit a 3-4 better, and obviously a guy like Suh would as well. Mayo I'm indifferent about. I think his coverage ability has been exposed a bit this year, but he's making more plays. I think more aggressive defensive playcalling plays a role in that as well. Wilfork is a beast in any scheme, and Ninkovich can play anywhere about equally effectively as well.

I am also a Richardson fan as well.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

Well they run nickel more than half the time anyways so there are plenty of looks that Jones would get from a rush end, but I don't entirely agree that 4-3 DE is necessarily his best position either. Jones is actually pretty slow out of his stance, his best asset is his length and his ability to leverage that length to disengage. By shading him over a tackle you're giving him plenty of space to work with considering the attention Wilfork draws in the middle, and you're giving him a better position to disrupt passing lanes and a faster route to the QB. I think he's stout enough to hold up now, and he has space to add more weight on his frame. He may not get as many sacks as he would at end, but I could see him having a hand in more plays though.

I think Spikes and Hightower both fit a 3-4 better, and obviously a guy like Suh would as well. Mayo I'm indifferent about. I think his coverage ability has been exposed a bit this year, but he's making more plays. I think more aggressive defensive playcalling plays a role in that as well. Wilfork is a beast in any scheme, and Ninkovich can play anywhere about equally effectively as well.

I like Jones' potential as a 5 technique myself, however it was simply something Belichick said last year after he was drafted. I think if the Pats were to go to a 34 the main thing they would need right now is a weakside edge rusher. Both Hightower and Nink are nore suited to the strong side and neither would be a top notch guy to rush the passer. If Jones is moving inside it leaves a pretty big hole to fill

[Razor]

I'm really not a fan of Sheldon Richardson. I don't get what people see in him. I wouldn't touch him in the first two rounds if I were a GM. Sylvester Jones is another story though, I'd love to add him to our defense. I really think that it's easier to apply pressure in the 4-3 than in the 3-4, and when it's a pass first league pass rush is paramount. The 3-4 is much better suited to stop the run imo.

I've never been a fan of Jones playing 5-tech. He probably could do that in a scheme similar to what Houston run, but I think his ceiling is much higher as a 4-3 DE. As for Hightower, I guess I'm in the minority here. I really like him as a 4-3 SLB where you can utilize his blitzing abilities, his strength and sneaky athleticism.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

I like Jones' potential as a 5 technique myself, however it was simply something Belichick said last year after he was drafted. I think if the Pats were to go to a 34 the main thing they would need right now is a weakside edge rusher. Both Hightower and Nink are nore suited to the strong side and neither would be a top notch guy to rush the passer. If Jones is moving inside it leaves a pretty big hole to fill

The key there would be finding a dynamic enough 5 tech to make it all work. In Suh's case he's a plus player against both the run and the pass and Chandler Jones would be a very big plus player against the pass from those 2 end spots. I think Houston has proved that if the 2 ends are good enough the rest will follow. We could try Francis, Bequette, and Cunningham with Ninkovich and Hightower, and somewhere down the road I'd imagine we'd be able to pick up a Brooks Reed or Shea McClellin type to play the weak side if it became a big enough concern. I never really thought Vrabel or Colvin where particularly dynamic either, but with Seymour, Washington, and Wilfork running the show they got it done.

Either way we need a dynamic inside guy. If Richardson's that guy so be it. I think we can work out of either scheme, but we need to get somebody who can cover at LB, somebody who can rush the passer from the middle of the line, and a safety/nickel corner who isn't awful.

[Matthew Jones]

Second round pick in the forum mock: DT Sharrif Floyd, Florida.

[Don Vito]

Hypothetically speaking of course, say Jarvis Jones' injury concerns cause him to slip. Think we would make a move? Many teams were iffy on Gronk but we still took him. Jones is exactly what we need and is a top 5 talent at a premium position. I don't know if he will last past the 20th pick, but if he falls out of the top 10 could you see us getting aggressive? Before last year I would not even consider it but it looks like things might be changing. We love our SEC linebackers and I don't know if there is a player in this class who fits what we need more than Jones.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by Don Vito

Hypothetically speaking of course, say Jarvis Jones' injury concerns cause him to slip. Think we would make a move? Many teams were iffy on Gronk but we still took him. Jones is exactly what we need and is a top 5 talent at a premium position. I don't know if he will last past the 20th pick, but if he falls out of the top 10 could you see us getting aggressive? Before last year I would not even consider it but it looks like things might be changing. We love our SEC linebackers and I don't know if there is a player in this class who fits what we need more than Jones.

I actually disagree pretty strongly here. I don't think Jones is the type of guy we need. I don't see him as a down end and I don't think we will go back to a 34. He could be a OLB similar to Von Miller but that kinda makes Hightower expendable and I don't think BB would rather have Jones over Hightower at this point.

I think the Pats either need a strongside DE such as Ansah, a DT like Sylvester Williams, possibly a safety and possibly a CB. I would be shocked if they took a LB high.

Bear in mind they have Mayo, Spikes and Hightower starting. Nink can play LB and Dane Fletcher is due to come back. Jones is a nice player with injury concerns taken out, but I don't think the Pats would take him unless he offered ridiculous value

[Don Vito]

I am very high on Ansah too, I just want a pass rusher in some capacity and Jones is the best guy at getting to the QB in this class. I understand we are stacked at linebacker with Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Nink had a good year, and Fletcher coming back. Jones is a different player than all of those guys though and would give us something we don't have. We need a guy opposite Chandler who can get to the QB. A guy like Ansah would probably be more likely because of his size and pure ability but if Jones starts to slip I think he could be a possibility.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by Don Vito

I am very high on Ansah too, I just want a pass rusher in some capacity and Jones is the best guy at getting to the QB in this class. I understand we are stacked at linebacker with Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Nink had a good year, and Fletcher coming back. Jones is a different player than all of those guys though and would give us something we don't have. We need a guy opposite Chandler who can get to the QB. A guy like Ansah would probably be more likely because of his size and pure ability but if Jones starts to slip I think he could be a possibility.

Yeah Jones gives you a guy who can do similar to what Von Miller can, however I'm just not convinced that's the direction the Pats would go. I also believe Jones is a little overhyped (well was earlier in the season).

I think this is the first year where we can't put our finger on where the biggest need is. Some believe WR, some interior line, some DT, some end etc

I think we could either be in for a shock or for old times sack a whole load of trading down

[cmarq83]

I actually don't consider DE high on the list of priorities right now. Of course if the value is fantastic I don't see how we could say no, but I'd much prefer an interior guy, a coverage LB, a safety, or a solid CB to another DE. I'm encouraged by the rotation we have there now, and I think there is room for Jones and Francis to get better.

[Don Vito]

Francis has some potential and is very young, he could develop into a good player. Bequette hasn't done anything but he has talent too.

As far as coverage LB goes, Dane Fletcher was one of my breakout candidates for this year. Sucks he got hurt. I am hoping he comes back healthy because he is a talented dude and started playing some good ball last year.

[Razor]

Francis has been a nice surprise these past few weeks. I liked it when we got him after the draft and asked the Rutgers fans about him. They really liked his skill set, but said he'd probably be more effective as an inside pass rusher in sub packages. I like his size and athleticism, but I don't think he what you'd consider a starter on a championship caliber team. Although I wouldn't oppose picking a DE in the first, I'm more inclined to want a WR or a DT. Robert Woods, Tavon Austin, Cordarrelle Patterson, Stedman Bailey and Quiton Patton are players that I'd like to see in NE. Marquess Wilson was a player that I really liked, and had him as my #2 ranked receiver going into the season. After all the commotion with him this fall I think he's a late round/UDFA which makes me want us to take a chance on him. He's deadly on the outside and can just flat out play. A guard would be nice as well, but I don't consider that as big of a need as I did earlier this season.

[Blackluck]

So Houston.
Couple years ago we crushed the Jets on a Sunday night, only to lose the playoff game. I think we win this one, but I think it will be much closer than last time we played Houston.

[descendency]

Houston is a worse team than when we beat them and we are a better team.

But I don't think we will blow them out as badly as last time.

--------------------

The number of the week this week is 17. That's how many playoff wins Tom Brady will have after the Texans game. It will be an NFL record.

[AntoinCD]

Houston will likely have a better game offensively than last time but unless Brady plays poorly or JJ Watt single handidly kills us there is no reason we shouldn't put up 35+ again. They really do not match up well with our offense and with Gronk back that just puts it further in our favour

[Jvig43]

Really shouldnt get too confident here, unless we score quick like last time and get up early the Texans don't have to be one dimensional and I think the game plays out very differently.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by Jvig43

Really shouldnt get too confident here, unless we score quick like last time and get up early the Texans don't have to be one dimensional and I think the game plays out very differently.

Yeah I don't think it will be like last time, however the key is to get Schaub into 3rd and long and he really struggles, especially if we can take AJ away.

In the secondary the Texans are stronger at CB than safety and that isn't a huge thing against the Pats

[Nalej]

I can't help but keep thinking about the jets some years ago. I'm sure BB is already drilling them about that. Having Gronk back is big though. That outweighs anyone Houston is getting back from injury.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by Nalej

I can't help but keep thinking about the jets some years ago. I'm sure BB is already drilling them about that. Having Gronk back is big though. That outweighs anyone Houston is getting back from injury.

It should guard against complacency but it's different to me. The Jets have tons of experience against the Pats and know specific tendencies in and out. That Jets defense also matched up well against our offense. For me this game will come down to execution for our offense. If we execute then I don't think there is a whole lot Houston can do. It all starts up front. We won't stop Watt, but if we can not let him make game changing plays then it's a good start.

We have shown we can beat their back 7 and on quite a few drives a few weeks ago we simply rammed the ball down their throat.

Defensively it will likely be tougher to replicate what we did. We can't count on Foster gaining less than 50 and Johnson may not be shut down to the same degree. However I think we can force Schaub into mistakes

[Matthew Jones]

The forum mock so far:

1. Traded to Minnesota for WR Percy Harvin

2. DT Sharrif Floyd, Florida*

3. DE John Simon, Ohio St.

4. (from Vikings) WR Kenny Stills, Oklahoma*

We've got two seventh-round picks left (our own and Tampa's.)

[Wootylicous]

Have a good one Jvig! <3

[Razor]

Happy birthday Jvig!

[AntoinCD]

Happy birthday man. Have a good one

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones

The forum mock so far:

1. Traded to Minnesota for WR Percy Harvin

2. DT Sharrif Floyd, Florida*

3. DE John Simon, Ohio St.

4. (from Vikings) WR Kenny Stills, Oklahoma*

We've got two seventh-round picks left (our own and Tampa's.)

I've replied about Harvin so I won't rehash that.

Floyd in the second is fine. He flashes pass rush ability but struggles at the point in the run game.

Simons ok I suppose. Where did Tank Carradine go by the way? If on the board I would nab him instead.

Stills is fine too. Was Swope on the board?

[Don Vito]

Jvig happy birthday bro