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Old 01-05-2013, 12:54 AM    (permalink
Mufasa
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People keep saying things like Andy Reid is an amazing QB coach and any QB will work with Reid as the coach. Why? What evidence of this is there? To start off his pro career he had Brett Favre. Then he had Donovan McNabb for 10 years. The Kevin Kolb experiment failed. Then he had Michael Vick. And finally Nick Foles didn't look too good.

I guess a fair amount of McNabb's success can be attributed to Reid, but this Andy Reid QB genius stuff is way overblown.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:26 AM    (permalink
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This thread has had a lot of good points thrown out there, both for and against taking a QB at #1. I can see it both ways. I would just like to add one thing to the mix. While I totally agree that this draft does not have that over-the-top QB in it, the can't miss guy, or whatever you want to call it, the chances of none of these quarterbacks becoming franchise-worthy is very low. I'm sure there have been drafts where all of the quarterbacks taken in the 1st round fell below their expectations, but it isn't likely. I think that, between Wilson, Barkley, Glennon, Smith, and whoever else ends up being in the mix, someone will become a star. A lot will depend on who takes them, how they are used, groomed, how soon they are forced into action, etc. I don't think that if the Chiefs take one of them at #1 whoever it is will automatically become a failure.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:31 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Mufasa View Post
People keep saying things like Andy Reid is an amazing QB coach and any QB will work with Reid as the coach. Why? What evidence of this is there? To start off his pro career he had Brett Favre. Then he had Donovan McNabb for 10 years. The Kevin Kolb experiment failed. Then he had Michael Vick. And finally Nick Foles didn't look too good.

I guess a fair amount of McNabb's success can be attributed to Reid, but this Andy Reid QB genius stuff is way overblown.
He might not be the best, but he belongs near the top of quarterback developers. Within his scheme, he creates production.

Just glossing over his development of McNabb is unfair, too. Thatís his best work. Coming out of ĎCuse, McNabb was raw. His progression as a passer wasnít tied to much in terms of an NFL foundation either. But Reid took his malleable skill set and molded him into a drop-back quarterback. For all of his faults, McNabb was still a productive passer with the Eagles. And, at the time, a lot of people lobbied for Williams over him.

If I had to guess, I would agree that Geno Smith is the eventual pick. Tools are good. From what Iíve seen, the scheme doesnít bother me. Heís making simplified reads, sure, but thatís a general trend of quarterbacking. Between Washington and West Virginia, thereís similar passing concepts. Split the field into sections, run complementing route combinations, etc. Within that framework, Iíve still liked his ball placement and decision-making. When Iíve seen Smith struggle, I suspect the biggest culprit has been backside validation. If his primaries arenít freed off that frontside route combo, he becomes robotic through progressions. That needs to be the focus area. But from the anecdotal things Iíve heard, Smith is a tenacious worker. Thatís a huge positive. Too often quarterbacks compress their own upside. The best quarterbacks are the biggest grinders.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:39 AM    (permalink
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Geno Smith please.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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People keep saying things like Andy Reid is an amazing QB coach and any QB will work with Reid as the coach. Why? What evidence of this is there? To start off his pro career he had Brett Favre. Then he had Donovan McNabb for 10 years. The Kevin Kolb experiment failed. Then he had Michael Vick. And finally Nick Foles didn't look too good.

I guess a fair amount of McNabb's success can be attributed to Reid, but this Andy Reid QB genius stuff is way overblown.
I disagree to an extent. In all honesty the scheme is good for QBs. Reid doesn't actually develop them because when they leave the scheme they suck complete balls. Go through the entire list. McNabb borderline pro bowler in the system. Outside the system mediocre. Garcia wins six strait games to get the eagles in the playoffs in Reid's system. When he left he couldn't even start for the Raiders. Even before getting to the Eagles he was trash on the Browns and trash on the Lions. Kevin Kolb had a few great games in Philly hasn't come anything close yet in Arizona.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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Geno Smith please.
I was thinking last night how it would be quite the debate if guys like Clowney, Manziel and Bridgewater were in this draft. We might have to put on an extra pot of coffee for that one.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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I disagree to an extent. In all honesty the scheme is good for QBs. Reid doesn't actually develop them because when they leave the scheme they suck complete balls. Go through the entire list. McNabb borderline pro bowler in the system. Outside the system mediocre. Garcia wins six strait games to get the eagles in the playoffs in Reid's system. When he left he couldn't even start for the Raiders. Even before getting to the Eagles he was trash on the Browns and trash on the Lions. Kevin Kolb had a few great games in Philly hasn't come anything close yet in Arizona.
Your missing the point, Reid gets excellent production out of his QB's, young or old, that is a simple fact. Who cares what they do when they leave Reid's team???
McNabb wasn't a borderline Pro Bowler, he was a consistent pro Bowler, Garcia was a solid QB with the 49ers when he played for them. In Detroit, he was injured the whole time he was there and with Cleveland, he was simply old. However, he played excellent for Reid as did Kolb.

I have to wonder if he will draft a QB in round 1 at KC, he may well use his golden touch on Cassel and draft a QB in round 2 or even 3 to develop down the road. That is his style.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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People keep saying things like Andy Reid is an amazing QB coach and any QB will work with Reid as the coach. Why? What evidence of this is there? To start off his pro career he had Brett Favre. Then he had Donovan McNabb for 10 years. The Kevin Kolb experiment failed. Then he had Michael Vick. And finally Nick Foles didn't look too good.
Nick Foles was a rookie and Kevin Kolb was traded for a second round pick and a very talented CB.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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Nick Foles was a rookie and Kevin Kolb was traded for a second round pick and a very talented CB.
And Michael Vick crashed and burned. I hope Andy does well there for Chiefs fans but his body of work seems to be on a serious decline.

Coming next will be how great Mike Holmgren is if and when he takes the Arizona job.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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And Michael Vick crashed and burned. I hope Andy does well there for Chiefs fans but his body of work seems to be on a serious decline.

Coming next will be how great Mike Holmgren is if and when he takes the Arizona job.
He made Mike Vick good enough to receive a $100 million contract. I still think Vick could be relatively successful with a good offensive line and maybe a bigger receiver to throw too.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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He made Mike Vick good enough to receive a $100 million contract. I still think Vick could be relatively successful with a good offensive line and maybe a bigger receiver to throw too.
We could probably argue the wisdom behind that move but you do make a point.

Vick might be able to do some work in a place like Arizona, that wouldn't surprise me.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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We could probably argue the wisdom behind that move but you do make a point.

Vick might be able to do some work in a place like Arizona, that wouldn't surprise me.
If they improved their offensive line I could definitely see that as a good fit.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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I think the chiefs should go with Geno. He threw for 4200 yards, 42 TD, 6 INT. These numbers are eerily similar to RGIII in the Big 12 a year ago and they both ran out of the pistol. He is not a world class sprinter, but no one can deny his accuracy as a passer. Charles and McCluster would work great in the pistol and if Bowe comes back he'd be perfect for the deep play action. Without so many turnovers the Chiefs D actually isn't in horrible shape--great linebacker core. Give the guy a chance...no one can say he's worse than tannehill, weeden, or locker
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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He made Mike Vick good enough to receive a $100 million contract.
This is false. Michael Vick will be cut and the bulk of that money is going to be lost.

Actually, the bulk of it was lost before the end of the first season. It had a clause in it that voided the last two years if he played more than a few plays in any season.

The contract was only 100 million in a really weird case where Vick didn't play at all and the Eagles didn't cut him, but he won them a Super Bowl and made every All Pro team or something like that.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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Vick is not a long term answer as a starting QB. His most useful role for an NFL team would be backup/special package QB.
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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People keep saying things like Andy Reid is an amazing QB coach and any QB will work with Reid as the coach. Why? What evidence of this is there? To start off his pro career he had Brett Favre. Then he had Donovan McNabb for 10 years. The Kevin Kolb experiment failed. Then he had Michael Vick. And finally Nick Foles didn't look too good.

I guess a fair amount of McNabb's success can be attributed to Reid, but this Andy Reid QB genius stuff is way overblown.
Perhaps developing isnt the right wording. But you can't deny that QB in the Reid system has enjoyed success.

Kolb wasn't considered a failed experiment until he left town. The handful of games he played under Reid was productive, minus the ones where he was thrown in the fire due to injury to the starting QB. Much like Foles, you can see that Foles slowly grasping the scheme, and becoming better producer, not necessarily a better QB
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Old 01-05-2013, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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I think the chiefs should go with Geno. He threw for 4200 yards, 42 TD, 6 INT. These numbers are eerily similar to RGIII in the Big 12 a year ago and they both ran out of the pistol. He is not a world class sprinter, but no one can deny his accuracy as a passer. Charles and McCluster would work great in the pistol and if Bowe comes back he'd be perfect for the deep play action. Without so many turnovers the Chiefs D actually isn't in horrible shape--great linebacker core. Give the guy a chance...no one can say he's worse than tannehill, weeden, or locker
Numbers doesn't mean he'll translate tot he NFL. I saw a lot of crossing routes and YAC racked up by Bailey and Austin. the RG III comparison is terrible if you actually watch them both. RG III is eventually going to have to run an NFL offense, so don't put all this stock into 1 year at the NFL level.

Honestly, Kansas City is in a pickle. Pretty tough choice.

Went back to watch Tyler Wilson, and honestly, I wasn't impressed with his decision making and accuracy towards the outside and intermediate routes. A lot of short crossing routes as well.

Glennon might be the best QB from this class, but I definately do not see #1 overall pick potential. My best guess, normally, is to go the veteran route, a p[roven guy like Alex Smith and selecting Luke joeckel. The Cheifs have a very good overall team built to the point, I can see them winning 10 games next year with Reid.

Alex Smith has shown he can win in this league. I wouldn't waste the #1 overall pick on a suspect QB. get the BPA. Albert may walk in Free Agency and Joeckel is absolutely a monster.
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Old 01-05-2013, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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And if Albert doesn't walk? There is no room for Joeckel.

It's QB this year, period.
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Old 01-05-2013, 05:16 PM    (permalink
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I think Reid lowers the chances of KC going QB #1 although the likelihood is still pretty high. He's a little unconventional in the draft and might go all crazy like a fox and pick a QB in the 2nd that nobody's thought of.
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Old 01-05-2013, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
And if Albert doesn't walk? There is no room for Joeckel.

It's QB this year, period.
Even if that QB turns into a collassel bust? Really?

Look, I get there are no Andrew Lucks or RG III's in this draft. But I don't even see a guranteed average starter either.

Inconsistant QBs usually find themselves as back ups evenually.

Geno Smith has too many questions to be a #1 pick. Mike Glennon? I like him, and htink he can be the best QB in this draft, but I personally wouldn't take him #1 overall.

Tyler Wilson? I'd give him a 2nd round grade.

I think the Cheifs will take a QB, and it will probably be Smith. But this is a horrible year to need a QB and have the number 1 pick. That is something you cannot argue.
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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I'm not arguing it. I have never argued that. I just don't care. I flat out do not care how bad this draft is for QB. They need to identify the one they like the most and draft him first overall. No other position makes the least bit of sense.
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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Somehow, I don't think Andy Reid is going to agonize over this as much as what's going on in this thread. I'll be shocked if he doesn't take a QB at #1. Too obvious a need and this gives him the pick of the litter. I think the Luck/RG3 phenomenon last year makes this QB class look worse than it really is. By the time of the draft, we will see a couple rise to the top, as usual. I also think it's become trendy to over-analyze Geno Smith and my humble (and very amateur) opinion is that he's the only one even remotely worthy of the #1 pick. Sure, he's a little raw, but everything is there for him to be a great QB. Reid is the guy you want molding a raw QB with a lot of talent. As of right now, I think Geno is the clear choice for the Chiefs.
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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I can't see the Chiefs not drafting a QB.

The reality is that Cassel and Quinn are not Andy Reid type QBs. The FA pool this year does not fit Andy Reid's offense or suck. (mostly the sucking part)

Teams do not trade good QBs, typically. So, the Chiefs will have to draft one.

Who matches Andy Reid's offense the best and where should he be drafted? In my opinion, that looks like Geno Smith, who will likely have to be drafted #1 overall.

I do think (in Andy Reid's offense) that Geno Smith will merit the #1 pick.

Mike Glennon and Tyler Wilson do not fit Andy Reid's offense as well. Neither does Matt Barkley.
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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Somehow, I don't think Andy Reid is going to agonize over this as much as what's going on in this thread. I'll be shocked if he doesn't take a QB at #1. Too obvious a need and this gives him the pick of the litter. I think the Luck/RG3 phenomenon last year makes this QB class look worse than it really is. By the time of the draft, we will see a couple rise to the top, as usual. I also think it's become trendy to over-analyze Geno Smith and my humble (and very amateur) opinion is that he's the only one even remotely worthy of the #1 pick. Sure, he's a little raw, but everything is there for him to be a great QB. Reid is the guy you want molding a raw QB with a lot of talent. As of right now, I think Geno is the clear choice for the Chiefs.
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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I can't see the Chiefs not drafting a QB.

The reality is that Cassel and Quinn are not Andy Reid type QBs. The FA pool this year does not fit Andy Reid's offense or suck. (mostly the sucking part)

Teams do not trade good QBs, typically. So, the Chiefs will have to draft one.

Who matches Andy Reid's offense the best and where should he be drafted? In my opinion, that looks like Geno Smith, who will likely have to be drafted #1 overall.

I do think (in Andy Reid's offense) that Geno Smith will merit the #1 pick.

Mike Glennon and Tyler Wilson do not fit Andy Reid's offense as well. Neither does Matt Barkley.
I've always thought Geno should go #1 and it seems like a good match with Reid in KC now, but why did he draft Foles last year? He doesn't seem like an Andy Reid type QB me.
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