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Old 01-06-2013, 09:41 AM    (permalink
IL DUCE
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Originally Posted by YotoJets007 View Post
I don't think 49ers will let Alex Smith walk. 2 reasons. Kaepernick is still unproven and few teams scream for qb solution or gap-stop with weak qb class for 2013 draft and free agency (after Joe Flacco).


However, if 49ers indeed release Smith then Jets should take him. He is already beyond the struggle stage and knows how to control the football better. Sanchez is stuck in the struggle stage and Jets have no wait time for him to get around and help Jets back to a playoff contender.
Yeah I don't think they'd let him walk unless they need to free up cap room...I do think however they would listen to reasonable trade offers for him, and with Gamble running the show I'm sure he could work out a fair deal for him
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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I'm not a huge fan but he's certainly better than Sanchez...Rex will want a stop-gap vet either way b/c he likely has to win in 2013 to keep his job...if we get Norv Turner, Alex Smith did well in his system plus I'm just doing dot connecting with the supposed Gamble hire...plus maybe we could send them Sanchez for Alex Smith and maybe send them a mid round pick or a player...

So unless Rex gets assurance that he doesnt have to win this year to keep his job we'll be signing either Matt Moore or Jason Campbell, or guys who need to be traded for or will likely be released like Alex Smith, Michael Vick or Matt Flynn...not saying I agree with these moves, but they are likely to occur
I don't think that scenario really makes any sense. If Rex is forced on the new GM that's one thing, but the GM isn't going to be forced to make personnel decisions Rex wants too. Just because he's the coach doesn't mean he gets to choose who to sign, etc. He'll certainly get input, the the GM is going to try to build a long-term, Super Bowl contender here. Don't think Alex Smith is a Super Bowl QB, and don't think the GM is going to care one way or another that Ryan wants a veteran QB as he's coaching for his job in 2013.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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I don't think that scenario really makes any sense. If Rex is forced on the new GM that's one thing, but the GM isn't going to be forced to make personnel decisions Rex wants too. Just because he's the coach doesn't mean he gets to choose who to sign, etc. He'll certainly get input, the the GM is going to try to build a long-term, Super Bowl contender here. Don't think Alex Smith is a Super Bowl QB, and don't think the GM is going to care one way or another that Ryan wants a veteran QB as he's coaching for his job in 2013.
Fair enough, but I think he will attempt to put Rex in a position to succeed either way...plus with Gamble coming from San Fran I don't see why he wouldn't attempt to get Alex Smith especially if the OC we hire runs a system similar to San Fran or one that plays to his strengths...I could see a deal like Alex Smith for Sanchez & Cromartie just making sense, although I'd probably rather send Cromartie to the Lions, Colts, Bucs, Raiders or another CB needy team for a 2nd or 3rd rd pick
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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Calvin Pace could take a pay cut to remain with us. Bryan Thomas could take a vet minimum to remain working for Ryan. Defense has done just fine without pass rusher.

Santonio Holmes will be removed from the squad after 2013. Stephen Hill is far away from NFL ready. Jeremy Kerley serves the best at slot. Mark Sanchez and the pass offense haven't productive. Whoever is under center, he will need a 2 or 3 year stability in QB-WR relationship. Tannenbaum sabotaged this relationship with Sanchez in past.


Saying that WR is zero need is incorrect. Hopkins has shot to be first WO off the board. So thus, he could be BPA.

If you insist on spending the first round selection to fill a need then it is a quarterback. QB situation is by far worse than OLB situation before the off season kicks in.

I am willing to wager a lot of money that DeAndre Hopkins isn't the BPA when the Jets pick in the first round. Keenan Allen and Terrance Williams are much better WRs. That and most of the pass rushers in this class are much higher value than any wideout let alone the third best one. It's just completely unreasonable to think Hopkins will be a Jet. Hopkins will probably be selected in the late 1st
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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I am willing to wager a lot of money that DeAndre Hopkins isn't the BPA when the Jets pick in the first round. Keenan Allen and Terrance Williams are much better WRs. That and most of the pass rushers in this class are much higher value than any wideout let alone the third best one. It's just completely unreasonable to think Hopkins will be a Jet. Hopkins will probably be selected in the late 1st

I can give you Keenan Allen but since he is out with PCL surgery, I don't know if game film is enough to warrant him as top WR.

Terrance Williams runs lousy routes. I don't see him ahead of Robert Woods who may be a bottom 1st rounder.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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I don't think that scenario really makes any sense. If Rex is forced on the new GM that's one thing, but the GM isn't going to be forced to make personnel decisions Rex wants too. Just because he's the coach doesn't mean he gets to choose who to sign, etc. He'll certainly get input, the the GM is going to try to build a long-term, Super Bowl contender here. Don't think Alex Smith is a Super Bowl QB, and don't think the GM is going to care one way or another that Ryan wants a veteran QB as he's coaching for his job in 2013.


Rex Ryan wants a quarterback that moves the chain regularly for better game management. Tom Gamble will give him one. If Ryan wants Mike Vick then Gamble has to overrule him and give him Alex Smith.

That is something I want to witness.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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Fair enough, but I think he will attempt to put Rex in a position to succeed either way...plus with Gamble coming from San Fran I don't see why he wouldn't attempt to get Alex Smith especially if the OC we hire runs a system similar to San Fran or one that plays to his strengths...I could see a deal like Alex Smith for Sanchez & Cromartie just making sense, although I'd probably rather send Cromartie to the Lions, Colts, Bucs, Raiders or another CB needy team for a 2nd or 3rd rd pick
I disagree that he's going to try to put Rex in a position to succeed year 1. The team has an absolutely awful cap situation, about half of their starters are free agents or are guaranteed to be cut, and is coming off a 6-10 season. This year has to be a rebuilding year, the team is just not in a situation where they can add a few guys and compete for the playoffs.

This is a season where they take their lumps, let young guys develop, and try to come back and compete in 2014/2015. That's the smart way to do it, and I have to assume Gamble is a smart guy. If anything Rex is a guy to take the heat for a bad season this year before Gamble brings in a coach he actually wants in my opinion. They try to bring in Smith and compete this year it's just going to set the team back even further.

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Rex Ryan wants a quarterback that moves the chain regularly for better game management. Tom Gamble will give him one. If Ryan wants Mike Vick then Gamble has to overrule him and give him Alex Smith.

That is something I want to witness.
Why does Gamble have to bring in a veteran?
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Why does Gamble have to bring in a veteran?

Dunno. It has something to do with weak qb class.
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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Dunno. It has something to do with weak qb class.
I could see bringing in a cheap backup type. But a guy like Smith is going to want money and a long-term deal if released, and is owed a substantial amount of money on his current contract. If he was an elite QB that would be one thing, but he's a mediocre quarterback who's not going to make his supporting cast better.

Why tie up the cap in the future for a guy like that when your team clearly needs to rebuild? Or even this year when you have little to no cap room? It just makes no sense to me. If the end goal is eventually winning a Super Bowl, I have no idea how bringing in Alex Smith helps you achieve that.
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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I could see bringing in a cheap backup type. But a guy like Smith is going to want money and a long-term deal if released, and is owed a substantial amount of money on his current contract. If he was an elite QB that would be one thing, but he's a mediocre quarterback who's not going to make his supporting cast better.

Why tie up the cap in the future for a guy like that when your team clearly needs to rebuild? Or even this year when you have little to no cap room? It just makes no sense to me. If the end goal is eventually winning a Super Bowl, I have no idea how bringing in Alex Smith helps you achieve that.

Well... 2013 budget is tighter but 2014 cap room is plenty.

y1 should be the lowest of the contract.

y2 should be the highest salary of the contract.


If Gamble thinks Alex Smith is the answer so be it. If Gamble wants a rookie quarterback some time in first two years then passing on Smith if his price is too high.

Now, I concern of Smith's demanding the starter contract because having him aboard may affect Revis' new contract. Will Jets draft CB as BPA this April in wake of Revis being potentially non Jet for 2014?
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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Well... 2013 budget is tighter but 2014 cap room is plenty.

y1 should be the lowest of the contract.

y2 should be the highest salary of the contract.


If Gamble thinks Alex Smith is the answer so be it. If Gamble wants a rookie quarterback some time in first two years then passing on Smith if his price is too high.

Now, I concern of Smith's demanding the starter contract because having him aboard may affect Revis' new contract. Will Jets draft CB as BPA this April in wake of Revis being potentially non Jet for 2014?
Well if the Niners don't release Smith I think he's due approximately 8 million. That's basically all of the Jets' cap room after they release a bunch of guys. Do you really think a team heading into the draft of:

QB: Smith
RB: Powell
FB: ?
WR: Holmes (coming off an injury)
WR: Hill
WR: Kerley
TE: ? (Keller and Cumberland are FA's)
OT: Ferguson
OT: ? (Howard is a RFA)
G: Schlauderaff
G: Ducasse
C: Mangold

DE: Wilkerson
DT: Pouha
DE: Coples
OLB: Sapp
ILB: Harris
ILB: Davis (Scott will be cut)
OLB: ? (Pace will be cut, Thomas and McIntyre are FA's)
CB: Revis
S: Bush
S: Allen
CB: Cromartie

Is a contender? Folk is a FA also. This team would have the draft and money to sign a couple of minor FA's. They would at the very least NEED to bring in a starting OLB, a starting TE, and a starting RT or re-sign guys. And the depth behind those guys is as bad as you would think at most positions.

After cutting all of the guys who would reasonably be cut and not cutting in Sanchez and bringing in Smith they would have about 6M in space plus I think they can roll over 4M that was unused last year but not sure on that. If they have the 4M to roll over pretty much all of that would get used on rookies, so maybe 6M to bring in a few guys or re-sign a couple FA's. Probably closer to 5 though.

Point being, with or without Alex Smith next year's team is going to be bad. But why tie up long-term and present money in an average QB who limits your ability to put together a good team this year and ties up cap space down the road? How does he have success on that supporting cast on offense, with at best a slightly above average defense anyway?
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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Releasing Smith won't wipe a whole 8m. 5m is guaranteed with 3m roster bonus. 5m is still pricey if he is released.

Paying him 1.5m to start for us in 2013 is not problematic.
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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Not sure what your point is there. You think the 49ers release Smith and the Jets are going to be able to sign him to a one year, 1.5 million dollar deal?
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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Dion Jordan sucks.... 10 chars.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:49 PM    (permalink
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I'm annoyed that Kruger had such a dominating performance today I was hoping the jets could use what little cap space they had on him but if he keeps crushing he's gonna cost too much :(
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:48 AM    (permalink
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Well if the Niners don't release Smith I think he's due approximately 8 million. That's basically all of the Jets' cap room after they release a bunch of guys. Do you really think a team heading into the draft of:

QB: Smith
RB: Powell
FB: ?
WR: Holmes (coming off an injury)
WR: Hill
WR: Kerley
TE: ? (Keller and Cumberland are FA's)
OT: Ferguson
OT: ? (Howard is a RFA)
G: Schlauderaff
G: Ducasse
C: Mangold

DE: Wilkerson
DT: Pouha
DE: Coples
OLB: Sapp
ILB: Harris
ILB: Davis (Scott will be cut)
OLB: ? (Pace will be cut, Thomas and McIntyre are FA's)
CB: Revis
S: Bush
S: Allen
CB: Cromartie

Is a contender? Folk is a FA also. This team would have the draft and money to sign a couple of minor FA's. They would at the very least NEED to bring in a starting OLB, a starting TE, and a starting RT or re-sign guys. And the depth behind those guys is as bad as you would think at most positions.

After cutting all of the guys who would reasonably be cut and not cutting in Sanchez and bringing in Smith they would have about 6M in space plus I think they can roll over 4M that was unused last year but not sure on that. If they have the 4M to roll over pretty much all of that would get used on rookies, so maybe 6M to bring in a few guys or re-sign a couple FA's. Probably closer to 5 though.

Point being, with or without Alex Smith next year's team is going to be bad. But why tie up long-term and present money in an average QB who limits your ability to put together a good team this year and ties up cap space down the road? How does he have success on that supporting cast on offense, with at best a slightly above average defense anyway?
After seeing it all out on paper, I'm really excited because I think our GM will finally do the right thing and draft some quality O-Linemen.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:24 AM    (permalink
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After seeing it all out on paper, I'm really excited because I think our GM will finally do the right thing and draft some quality O-Linemen.
Slauson will likely be cheap enough to keep, and I expect they will tender Howard. If not, o-line is much easier to get from FA than other positions of need. We have to get a qb, OLB, and RB from the draft I feel
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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I kind of don't expect them to keep Slauson around, but maybe they will. I'm kind of thinking that Moore gets a similar deal to Pouha last year and Ducasse ends up starting at LG. That's certainly where things seemed to be headed last year anyway.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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I disagree that he's going to try to put Rex in a position to succeed year 1. The team has an absolutely awful cap situation, about half of their starters are free agents or are guaranteed to be cut, and is coming off a 6-10 season. This year has to be a rebuilding year, the team is just not in a situation where they can add a few guys and compete for the playoffs.

This is a season where they take their lumps, let young guys develop, and try to come back and compete in 2014/2015. That's the smart way to do it, and I have to assume Gamble is a smart guy. If anything Rex is a guy to take the heat for a bad season this year before Gamble brings in a coach he actually wants in my opinion. They try to bring in Smith and compete this year it's just going to set the team back even further.



Why does Gamble have to bring in a veteran?
Yeah I was just dot connecting with Alex Smith...it's more likely someone like Matt Moore will be signed...and I agree and feel the same way that they should take their lumps, I also thought that was how they should've approached the season this year which they did a little bit....also remember Gamble has personal history with Rex from their fathers coaching together 20 years ago and has said he would love to have Rex as his coach...that said, I've also said several times that it's good situation for the GM to have Rex as a scape goat...I don't know if they will try to compete but if it means offloading Sanchez for Alex Smith I could see it, otherwise it's likely they'll just bring in a Matt Moore or Jason Campbell type guy on a 1 year insurance deal and have him compete with Sanchez/McElroy & possibly a mid round rook
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:58 AM    (permalink
IL DUCE
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I kind of don't expect them to keep Slauson around, but maybe they will. I'm kind of thinking that Moore gets a similar deal to Pouha last year and Ducasse ends up starting at LG. That's certainly where things seemed to be headed last year anyway.
If Tannenbaum were still here I'd agree...if Moore is cool with just going year by year at this point in his career I could see us bringing him back, but if he wants a pay day he needs to look elsewhere...Ducasse might even be cut unless we keep him for depth, and Slauson didn't like the whole rotation deal much so he may walk either way...I could see a cheap FA like Louis Vasquez coming in or drafting OG in the 3rd/4th round...

Also, our cap situation isn't as dire as everyone thinks...we could restructure deals of guys we know will be around like Harris or Mangold to alleviate some pressure but we will still be up to it...just need to draft impact rookie starters in the first 4 rounds and probably look to trade Cromartie for a 2nd or 3rd round pick...also can probably force Jacksonville to throw us a 5th for Tebow since the owner seems to covet him so badly...cutting Scott, Pace, E Smith, J Smith (and possibly Po'uha) and letting free agents like Greene, Keller, Thomas & Landry ( ) walk in free agency should also help
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:34 AM    (permalink
thetedginnshow
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I haven't seen everyone, but most of the top players I've watched and I looked at videos of the top 5 Seniors of all the top positions. Right now, these would be my top prospects.

Seniors
1. Jonathan Cooper, OG
2. Ezekiel Ansah, DE
3. Eric Fisher, OT
4. Tavon Austin, ATH
5. Johnathan Franklin, RB
6. John Simon, DE
7. Manti Te'o, ILB

Juniors
1. Luke Joeckel, OT
2. Dee Milliner, CB
3. Justin Hunter, WR

It would be nice to see us go after at least one of these game-breakers on offense. We need quite a bit more explosiveness.
I was giving Te'o the benefit of the doubt, but watching him more closely, he's not very good. Having trouble rounding out top tens, but I'll get to it eventually.

Seniors
1. Jonathan Cooper, OG
2. Ezekiel Ansah, DE
3. Eric Fisher, OT
4. Tavon Austin, ATH
5. Johnathan Franklin, RB
6. John Simon, DE
7. Montee Ball, RB

Juniors
1. Luke Joeckel, OT
2. Dee Milliner, CB
3. Kevin Minter, LB
4. Tyler Eifert, TE
5. Zach Ertz, TE
6. Taylor Lewan, OT
7. Justin Hunter, WR
8. Eddie Lacy, RB
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:23 PM    (permalink
derza222
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I was giving Te'o the benefit of the doubt, but watching him more closely, he's not very good. Having trouble rounding out top tens, but I'll get to it eventually.

Seniors
1. Jonathan Cooper, OG Good player, probably goes before the Jets' second and I'd be upset with taking a guard at 9. Maybe in a trade down?
2. Ezekiel Ansah, DE Will be interesting to see if he ends up being worth taking at 9, or is available in the 2nd. Wide range right now.
3. Eric Fisher, OT Similar to Cooper. Would prefer more of a mauler at RT also.
4. Tavon Austin, ATH Exactly the kind of player the offense needs. Would be awesome if he's there in the second.
5. Johnathan Franklin, RB Solid mid-round RB option.
6. John Simon, DE Maybe a late day 2 early day 3 pass rusher if they ignore that spot early.
7. Montee Ball, RB Ditto Franklin.

Juniors
1. Luke Joeckel, OT Great player, won't be there.
2. Dee Milliner, CB Great player, don't want another corner. Pretty sure he won't be there at 9 either.
3. Kevin Minter, LB Haven't focused much on him. Bigger need than I'd like to admit, but I think we ignore it this season.
4. Tyler Eifert, TE Would be awesome in the second if Keller bounces.
5. Zach Ertz, TE Another solid day 2 option if Keller bounces. Prefer Eifert though.
6. Taylor Lewan, OT Will be interesting to see if he's considered a top 10 pick. Wouldn't be my favorite move, but I could live with it.
7. Justin Hunter, WR Not a huge Hunter guy honestly. Seems frail and not particularly tough. Talent is clear though.
8. Eddie Lacy, RBLike Lacy. Would prefer one of a few backs who I think will go later and be at least as good and better fits, but I wouldn't be unhappy with him on day 2.
Not much love for this class of pass rushers I see.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:59 PM    (permalink
thetedginnshow
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They were just very uninspiring from what I've seen of them. Guys like Okafor looked slow, guys like Jordan looked fast but very undisciplined. Simon's the only one I've seen a ton of though, and I may be a little biased. But he's the best Ohio State defender I've seen in a long time. And sorry, this was just my list of top prospects for the class. They weren't necessarily tailored to what the Jets need and where we'll be picking. I guess I should look at that soon...
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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Mauling OT? Nah. If Jets actually want a pass happy offense then mauling OT is not an option.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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I could see teams getting scared of Jarvis Jones' medical situation and the Jets jumping on him at 9.

As a pseudo Jet-fan that would be my ideal choice.
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