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Old 01-09-2013, 12:05 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post

There is no such thing as value when your franchise QB is concerned and you don't pass on one if you don't have one. You might not see a franchise QB in this class, but I'm guessing that Reid and co. will see it differently.
I have no problem with Geno at number one but this is wrong. There is always a value. Whether you need a franchise QB or not, value of that player just doesn't go away or change. If he's rated the 15th best player on peoples boards, that doesn't change.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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I have no problem with Geno at number one but this is wrong. There is always a value. Whether you need a franchise QB or not, value of that player just doesn't go away or change. If he's rated the 15th best player on peoples boards, that doesn't change.
Strongly disagree. QBs don't operate in the same value scale.

If you like a QB enough to draft him in the first round, you like him enough to draft him #1 (or as close to that as you can get). You don't screw around with first round quarterbacks. You figure out which one is your guy and you make it happen. No dancing around.

Sanchez didn't work out, but what the Jets did to get him and what the Redskins did to get RG3 were both 100% the right moves.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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Eh, agree to disagree then. If the QB is valued highly, he will be placed higher on the board due to need and importance. If he isn't, then he is rated lower. It's as simple as that to me. If you need a QB and have one rated highly, by all means, take them at a higher pick. If not, don't pretend to inflate his value because of positional need due to him being a QB.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:05 AM    (permalink
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I do think Reid will keep Cassel or Stanzi.

Stanzi's had terrible work ethic, and simply didn't commit himself properly in the off-season. That's what showed up in pre-season. I ******* saw the guy around town with other guys that fell flat on their face this year when training camp was starting up. If Reid thinks he can change his attitude (he's arrogant - which could be a good thing if he was putting the work in), he could make something of the guy. I think Jim Zorn just absolutely failed the kid (not to take too much of the blame off of Stanzi) by not getting him ready for the off-season and not making sure he was doing what he needed to do in the off-season. Stanzi didn't have an off-season last year, and he didn't have the hard ass head coach or OC to stay on his ass in the off-season. He had Zorn. A lot of what's wrong with Stanzi is what was wrong with Vick. You still draft a QB, but if Reid wants to try to fix him, he's worth keeping as the 3rd QB on the roster.

With Cassel...I'm not sure if the damage is repairable. He's not necessarily a guy that doesn't fit in Reid's offense. The thing with Cassel is that he's smart, works hard, and can talk football at a really high level. Reid might fall in love with a lot of the classroom and off-the-field aspects of Cassel.

While I get IAC's argument (even though his presentation hasn't been very good), this is simply a situation where the team has to go QB. In a lot of drafts, there will be a guy that has interesting tools and could very well be the best (and not the "5th best") QB in the draft who slides because there are better-defined QBs that go ahead of him (think: Kaepernick or Aaron Brooks). However, this draft is filled with those tools guys and there really aren't defined guys that go ahead of the tools guys. And the Chiefs aren't a team with a ton of needs. They need a QB. They could "use" some other positions - like CB...but they NEED a QB.

The QB situation in this draft will clear itself up quite a bit in the next two months.
I find this to be really interesting. I recall reading an article shortly after Stanzi was drafted that basically said he was a film-watching freak in college, which was what sold Pioli on him at a visit to Iowa. Coaches said he was constantly in the film room, and they couldn't get him out of there. I guess the sales pitch didn't match the merchandise.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:11 AM    (permalink
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I find this to be really interesting. I recall reading an article shortly after Stanzi was drafted that basically said he was a film-watching freak in college, which was what sold Pioli on him at a visit to Iowa. Coaches said he was constantly in the film room, and they couldn't get him out of there. I guess the sales pitch didn't match the merchandise.
Take everything nepg says with a grain of salt. I have no doubt Stanzi is a hard worker, but like we were saying when the Chiefs wasted a pick on him, he's just not very good.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Well, your HC seems to be saying the same thing as me and not following your lead Vidae.
Gee, it is almost a direct quote from my argument and in complete disagreement with yours.


According to Reid: “you want to make sure you do the right thing and pick the right guy for that and not necessarily a quarterback. It doesn’t have to be a quarterback. It has to be the right thing. You don’t want to force anything at that point. People who do that get themselves in trouble. We’ll sit there and we’ll evaluate it and we’ll get it right as we go. In fact, Kansas City will have other options at the position going forward either through a trade or signing a veteran free agent. In such a scenario they could also look to draft a developmental QB in the second or later round while using the #1 pick to shore up another area."

I don't know who he will draft, he evaluate the talent and make the best decision for KC in his opinion. That's all you can except.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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That's actually a pretty telling quote. Kind of makes me wonder if Reid doesn't like any of the QB's in this draft. I mean, normally you could say smoke screen but there is really no point in trying to smoke screen with the number one over all pick.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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Reid does love his big uglies and Joeckel is the best player in the draft. Get Joeckel in the first and a QB in the 2nd or trade back up...who knows but gotta love the speculation of the next 4 months
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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That's actually a pretty telling quote. Kind of makes me wonder if Reid doesn't like any of the QB's in this draft. I mean, normally you could say smoke screen but there is really no point in trying to smoke screen with the number one over all pick.
It's not really telling when you consider that he has likely just only started to scout the QB's in this draft.

And even if there's no point in doing it, teams with the #1 pick BS and smokescreen all the time.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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It's not really telling when you consider that he has likely just only started to scout the QB's in this draft.

And even if there's no point in doing it, teams with the #1 pick BS and smokescreen all the time.
The man has been entrenched in personnel decisions almost his entire career. You don't think he has pretty good knowledge of these QB's already?
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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It's early January before the Shrine/Senior Bowl/Combine.. even if he studied them a lot, there is a lot more about them to learn before April.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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It's early January before the Shrine/Senior Bowl/Combine.. even if he studied them a lot, there is a lot more about them to learn before April.
I don't think Geno is going to the Senior Bowl right? If he doesn't throw at the Combine there isn't much else to evaluate him with outside of his pro day.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:57 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Geno is going to the Senior Bowl right? If he doesn't throw at the Combine there isn't much else to evaluate him with outside of his pro day.
They would have to evaluate him off of what he did on the field... The NFL hates that so much.

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Old 01-09-2013, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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They would have to evaluate him off of what he did on the field... The NFL hates that so much.

Clearly. I would be shocked if Reid didn't evaluate the QB's already considering he was thickly entrenched in personnel decisions in Philly.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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Agreed.

I just have always found it funny that what you do in shorts is more important than what you did on the field by many in the NFL.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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Damn, Lewan is returning for his senior season. Maybe #1 just became valuable with people who want Joeckel?
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Possibly, although you might have to be willing to take a little less premium for the pick than usual. Which honestly, as long as you still get a good deal, I would do that in a heartbeat.
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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Clark Hunt was on 610 KC radio this morning and said that there isn't a standout QB in this class.

He said there was a number of options they have and trading down could be a great option.

I think we're gonna try to trade down, get picks to build the team and then pick our QB.

Would also not surprise me to see us do a trade with Seattle for Matt Flynn. The Seahawks GM was close with Reid when they were in Green Bay and Flynn knows the WCO really well. I would hate that move, but I can see it happening.
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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I still believe in Geno Smith.
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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McCaron is not a top 50 ick right now if he enters. How has he looked with pressure in his face? I cannot judge that since it has never happened. He could develop in to a first rounder but it so hard to judge with the cleanness of the pocket. Also his receivers are often wide ope.
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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I still believe in Geno Smith.
Did we just become best friends?
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:05 PM    (permalink
bored of education
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I have been on the Geno wagon for a while good sir.

I do not understand the belief that the Chiefs should just let Branden Albert go(who is a top 5-7 LT in the game) and draft Joeckel. It makes no sense on so many levels. Why let an established entity walk and just replace that huge need with the first pick. You cause more roster holes by letting BA walk, not as much as Bowe.
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:08 PM    (permalink
Splat
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I have been on the Geno wagon for a while good sir.

I do not understand the belief that the Chiefs should just let Branden Albert go(who is a top 5-7 LT in the game) and draft Joeckel. It makes no sense on so many levels. Why let an established entity walk and just replace that huge need with the first pick. You cause more roster holes by letting BA walk, not as much as Bowe.
Preaching to the choir.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:12 AM    (permalink
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I have been on the Geno wagon for a while good sir.

I do not understand the belief that the Chiefs should just let Branden Albert go(who is a top 5-7 LT in the game) and draft Joeckel. It makes no sense on so many levels. Why let an established entity walk and just replace that huge need with the first pick. You cause more roster holes by letting BA walk, not as much as Bowe.
No, it apparently makes more sense to either:

a) Let a proven, very good player walk and draft his replacement when you have cap room, or

b) Draft Joeckel and move a top 10 LT to a different position already set with exciting young talent already in place.

So much sense is being made.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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No, it apparently makes more sense to either:

a) Let a proven, very good player walk and draft his replacement when you have cap room, or

b) Draft Joeckel and move a top 10 LT to a different position already set with exciting young talent already in place.

So much sense is being made.
I don't understand how people can actually argue that logic. It makes 0 sense. I don't care if you're a Geno or Tyler hater, and pull the BUT THERE'S MORE TALENT ON THE BOARD AT OTHER POSITIONS!!!111!!! that makes even LESS sense considering none of those other guys who fit your "value" fit on the Chiefs or make even a little bit of sense. If it's not Wilson or Geno, the chiefs done messed up.

and LOL at taking a new coach's word on DRAFT talks. that's hilarious. Obvious smokescreen for Joeckel is obvious. You know, maybe for his former team that could really use the clear cut top OT in the class. Just sayin'
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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