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Old 01-08-2013, 06:28 PM    (permalink
Big_Pete
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Here is my thinking of the kind of thing I would like to see on draft day for the Giants.

1 (19): Manti Teo, LB Notre Dame

2 (49): Logan Ryan, CB Rutgers

3 (81): Justin Pugh, T Syracuse

4 (113): Alvin Bailey, G Arkansas

5 (145): Joe Kruger, DE Utah

6 (177): Tyrann Mathieu, CB LSU

7 (209): Russell Shepard, WR LSU

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Old 01-09-2013, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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What do you guys think Ryan is gonna run at the combine? I wasn't as big on Ryan as GF and Scotty were. He screams Cover 2 CB to me as his ceiling.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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Ryan can play man or zone equally well. He's just an all around very good CB in any scheme. I think he winds up running a 4.5-4.6.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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Ryan can play man or zone equally well. He's just an all around very good CB in any scheme. I think he winds up running a 4.5-4.6.
I can live wit 4.5. If he's there in the 2nd round and he ran a 4.5 I'd love him.

4.6 makes him undraftable to me.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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Yeah 4.6 is too slow. 4.5 is doable because of his great size.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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The .1 of a second won't change my mind. I've seen him play enough to know at worst he'll be a very good #2 or even a very good S.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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.1 is a huge difference when running the 40. The difference between a 4.3 and a 4.4 is huge. Likewise, the same applies for a 4.5 and 4.6. 4.6 is almost purely a cover 2 guy.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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He has great technique. It makes up for any lack of speed.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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The thing that scares me about Logan is he was never tested. He didn't really have to go against any studs in college.

Combine that with his lack of speed and I'm just not sure on him. I'm gonna study him hard at the combine. I want to see how he does during the drills, his speed, and I want to see how he drops his hips.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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He has great fluidity with his hips. That's why I'm not worried about his speed. He's definitely not going to be one of the better timed CB's that's for sure. He has a nose for the ball and is great in run support. Also, he's gone up against some very good WR's and shut them down.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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I wish we could get this Dion Jordan character. I've seen a couple of games worth so far and I think he has potential.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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Dion Jordan is going to be an animal. His shoulder injury could make him last to us in the 1st. I'd be very approving of it.

Logan's going to be a solid guy. Perhaps a career #2 but he'll be solid. Not a playmaker really though.

I've also never seen him miss a tackle. His run support is a huge asset.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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If Eric Fisher turns out to be the same in skill set as Joe Staley, then I hope we draft him. This Barrett Jones has impressed me. He is a hard worker, smart, and played 3 positions. The way our OL gets hurt, that's very good versatility.

However, if he pushed Eli like he did to AJ, Snee would kill him.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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I don't know. I just prefer my players picked in the first and second round to be really high upside guys. I feel like Ryan will be a good, solid #2 like Scottyboy said. I want more than that though.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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I just want us to focus on the trenches. This draft has so many excellent OL and DL that we could walk away with a JPP partner, a decade long starter at LG to be our new Snee and a DT capable of pushing Canty and Joseph for their starting spots, if the board breaks right for us. A corner would be nice, and there's some really good ones, but with all of the gifted Lineman in this draft, some really special players will get pushed down the board.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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if front 7 isn't addressed in the first 2 rounds, I'll be upset.

Unless it's like an OL and Logan or something, but still.

Although Lewan staying in school lowers a chance of a good OT round 1 for us, really
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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Personally I don't care to draft a LB. I'm a big believer in you can get away with average/solid linebackers if you have a great defensive front and secondary.

With the inception of pass heavy offenses and the spread into the NFL the value of the linebacker has plummeted.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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Like I said I think a hulking DT helping the middle will help the LB corps that we have.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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Like I said I think a hulking DT helping the middle will help the LB corps that we have.
I would love to improve both. Get a guy like Sheldon Richardson round 1 or if Big Hank falls(which I doubt) take him and get Khaseem Greene or Kevin Minter round 2. Move Kiwi back to DE and have him and Tuck split time lining up across from JPP with Ojomo, Tracy and a later round DE as our depth with Linval, Canty and Richardson/Hank in the middle.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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Personally I don't care to draft a LB. I'm a big believer in you can get away with average/solid linebackers if you have a great defensive front and secondary.

With the inception of pass heavy offenses and the spread into the NFL the value of the linebacker has plummeted.
I think that's a myth. With the proliferation of the athletic TE and all these read options, and slot WRs and spread offenses making their way to the NFL, linebackers who can cover and stuff the run are a premium.

Linebackers cover the middle of the field. If you can't defend the middle, you're not gonna be a good defense. Look at SF, great linebackers. Seattle has great linebackers. Chicago, great linebackers. Look at how much Dallas' defense improved with Lee and Carter in the middle.

Linebackers are important. DBs aren't the only ones who cover. If you have LBs who can cover and can stay on the field for 3 downs you have a huge advantage schematically.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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It really just depends on who you play week to week. It's become easier and more favorable to pass in this league, meaning it makes sense to acquirer players who can stop that. How do you do that? Get to the quarterback and keep his targets covered. Linebackers can only do so much, depending on the team and defensive scheme.

The 49ers have superb edge rushers too. Aldon isn't really a LB in the true sense as he's clearly a pass rusher. Justin Smith is quite good too. They haven't been the same without him. They've also gotten very good secondary play. Willis and Bowman get a lot of hype but I honestly don't think they're the two most important pieces on that defense. Maybe not even top 3.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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I think the SF secondary is actually pretty average. The coverage they get from Willis and Bow coupled with the pass rush they get up front is the reason why they're so good.

Willis and Bow completely eliminate the middle of the field by themselves, which allows them to play umbrella shells on the back end and take away the sidelines.

It's not a black and white picture you paint. Linebackers cover just as much as DBs do. And they're also your first line of defense vs YAC. Which is becoming more and more important nowadays bc of the spread and read option.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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They're great players, but I could certainly argue that Justin Smith, Aldon Smith, Carlos Rogers and Goldson have been just as essential to that defense than Bowman and Willis.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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Rogers is kind of overrated, and Gholdson is definitely overrated. Rogers didn't have a great season. Gholdson is good but he gets a lot of freedom to do things other safeties don't get to do.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:20 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I think that's a myth. With the proliferation of the athletic TE and all these read options, and slot WRs and spread offenses making their way to the NFL, linebackers who can cover and stuff the run are a premium.

Linebackers cover the middle of the field. If you can't defend the middle, you're not gonna be a good defense. Look at SF, great linebackers. Seattle has great linebackers. Chicago, great linebackers. Look at how much Dallas' defense improved with Lee and Carter in the middle.

Linebackers are important. DBs aren't the only ones who cover. If you have LBs who can cover and can stay on the field for 3 downs you have a huge advantage schematically.

I agree, you only need to look at at the top 4-3 defences with teams like Seattle, Chicago, Denver, Cincinnati; they have all invested multiple premium (top 3 round) draft picks at LB.

The way the NFL is these days, if you don't have talented LBs they are basicalluy a liability waiting to be exploited, particularly with a 4-3 defence. In the past we have been able to compensate with a premier pass rush, but once teams adjust to manage that, we have issues.

In Buffalo Fewell still had Poslunzy and Mitchell (both 2nd round picks).
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