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Old 01-31-2011, 06:26 PM    (permalink
brasho
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30%<70% by the way - We all know that you think the small school QB can make it in the NFL and I'm sure 90% of us agree that not every big school QB will produce in the NFL. There's too many variables to really put a finger on what makes a college QB successful in the NFL.

It's a game of adjustments and as QBs are I guess becoming more and more "out of the pocket" throwers, defenses will then adapt to those kind of QBs as well.

Aside from Rodgers, Vick, Big Ben and Sanchez, who else can you say are MOBILE QBs and not your typical "pocket passer"?

The QB position is still a pocket passers game, the mobile QB label just adds a dimension. Just like a RB than never fumbles and can catch the ball out of the backfield as well.
You've heard of Josh Freeman, right? He moves his feet with the best of them... and in case you didn't notice, he's still the 2nd youngest QB in the entire league. Matt Casssl has good feet, Tony Romo, I almost want to throw Garrard out there because if it weren't for his mobility he would stink, Fitzpatrick, Jay Cutler, Jon Kitna (ran for 15 yards average a game and 4.7 a carry), Jason Campbell, but just consider this.,.. 5 of the top 10 passers according to rating this season are guys by your definition as mobile. Rodgers, Vick, Roethlisberger, Freeman, and Cassel. Vince Young would be on that list if he had enough attempts... and I think Flacco's mobility is underrated.

Mobility is a great equalizer for a young QB and CK will be at a great advantage of putting the extra pressure on a defense while he learns the nuances of the game.
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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That's great, and I can name 30 QB duds from major universities for every Mike Cherry and Carmazzi you throw at me.



How many great players has Grambling put out since Doug Wiliams? Jake Reed? Nice try. Their heyday was in the 60's and Williams was drafted in 78.

Because the MAN integrated big time football down South after USC whupped Alabama in the early 70s(?) and Grambling lost its pipeline for the best AA football talent.

Look at LSU's roster and just think what the Tigers would look like if all those players went to Grambling??

Integration was great for the country, college and pro football.
Not so good for former football powers like Grambling.
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Old 01-31-2011, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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Tebow got crucified (if you'll pardon the expression) for his Senior Bowl performance, which was 8/12 passing with no TDs or picks. Kaepernick somehow get lionized for going 4/9 with no TDs and a pick. Whatever.

For the people here that get on Josh McDaniels for drafting Tebow, all the fans on the Denver boards are saying that if Josh had played Tim earlier in the season he would still be coaching there. So much for that pov. Tebow started the last 3 games of the season. A handful of other rookies did the same. Tim was easily the best of them, passing and running. Including Bradford.
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Old 01-31-2011, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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Tebow got crucified (if you'll pardon the expression) for his Senior Bowl performance, which was 8/12 passing with no TDs or picks. Kaepernick somehow get lionized for going 4/9 with no TDs and a pick. Whatever.

For the people here that get on Josh McDaniels for drafting Tebow, all the fans on the Denver boards are saying that if Josh had played Tim earlier in the season he would still be coaching there. So much for that pov. Tebow started the last 3 games of the season. A handful of other rookies did the same. Tim was easily the best of them, passing and running. Including Bradford.
CK had 3 drops (one of which was knocked right into the hands of a defender), one throw away , and one pass that was high and out of bounds with a defender up the middle a half second from putting a lick on him. That accounts for all 5 incompletions. He should have been 7/9 with no picks.
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Old 01-31-2011, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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i'm sure you can. think you can tell me why, though?



are you suggesting he was the only player on that team, or do you want to admit you don't know anything about football in that era?



yippee? they never lost more than 3 games in the 70s and were sending a good number of players to the nfl through the mid-80s. but props. we should certainly argue about what they've done *since* the guy we're talking about graduated. that would have a lot to do with absolutely nothing.



1984. national championship. they were *not* a small school. you were simply wrong.
Ok, with your little point-counterpoint garbage you're pulling, you clearly are doing nothing but attempting to insult me and then fill your post with revisionist history. No, I wasn't around for Roger Staubach's Naval heroics, and that's fine with me, I prefer not to be so old and crusty that every new-fangled thing I see I have to scream out, "That's not the way they did things back in my day!"

Still, Roger Staubach was the main reason for Navy's high standings during his team... He won a Heisman with them... it wasn't for another 20 years before a player from a military academy even got mentioned as a Heisman candidate (Napoleon McCallum).

Yes, Grambling and Eddie Robinson were impressive, and so was Doug Williams when he returned to coach for a season (or two, I don't remember), but being a great D1-AA school isn't exactly being a great school in the SEC, is it?

As for BYU, they were a small school. THey were such a small school in fact that they were locked out of playing in any real bowl games and had to play a terrible Michigan team that came into the game at 6-5 (or whatever it was) and still needed a near miracle at the end from Bosco to win it. That was quite the statement game, beating a barely .500 team by the skin of their teeth. Then that program went big-time, right? Yep, Sean Covey, Michael Young, and a whole host of BYU QB wannabes got hyped out of their minds but Lavelle's crew was to contend for serious status no more. When a school recruits almost totally Mormon athletes, I would say their recruiting is pretty limited and always has been. Not to mention a majority of them go off on a mission when they're 19 and don't lift or play ball for two years.... but yeah, other than that, they're another USC.
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Old 01-31-2011, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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You've heard of Josh Freeman, right? He moves his feet with the best of them... and in case you didn't notice, he's still the 2nd youngest QB in the entire league. Matt Casssl has good feet, Tony Romo, I almost want to throw Garrard out there because if it weren't for his mobility he would stink, Fitzpatrick, Jay Cutler, Jon Kitna (ran for 15 yards average a game and 4.7 a carry), Jason Campbell, but just consider this.,.. 5 of the top 10 passers according to rating this season are guys by your definition as mobile. Rodgers, Vick, Roethlisberger, Freeman, and Cassel. Vince Young would be on that list if he had enough attempts... and I think Flacco's mobility is underrated.

Mobility is a great equalizer for a young QB and CK will be at a great advantage of putting the extra pressure on a defense while he learns the nuances of the game.
Every QB has to mobile in todays game. You're pretty much manipulating every thing anyone says to fit the point you're trying to get across. All those QBs you mentioned aside from Josh Freeman are technically not real mobile QBs. They're not sitting ducks like Peyton but like I said, it's 2011 and every NFL QB has to be able to move.

The point is QBs need to be pocket passers. QBs who weren't/aren't pocket passers, Rex Grossman...dude saw the pocket start to collapse and he'd just throw something up and hope it landed to someone on his team.

I just see CK's learning curve being wayyyyy to steep to become an elite passer in the NFL. As I stated in another thread, he's VY Part 2 and to say VY is a good QB is absurd. Off the field issues and attitude is part of being a successful QB in the NFL. Regarding CK and the Senior Bowl, CK ran every chance he had instead of keeping his eyes downfield for a pass.

I'm done debating the CK thread - We'll let the draft and the NFL experts conclude this debate in April. My prediction is early 3rd round for CK, Locker will get picked in the 2nd because of his "hype" and all the other Senior Bowl QBs will go in rd 3 or higher with Ponder being the 1st one out of everyone aside from CK and JL. McElroy and Dalton shouldn't be drafted honestly.
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Old 02-02-2011, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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Every QB has to mobile in todays game. You're pretty much manipulating every thing anyone says to fit the point you're trying to get across. All those QBs you mentioned aside from Josh Freeman are technically not real mobile QBs. They're not sitting ducks like Peyton but like I said, it's 2011 and every NFL QB has to be able to move.

The point is QBs need to be pocket passers. QBs who weren't/aren't pocket passers, Rex Grossman...dude saw the pocket start to collapse and he'd just throw something up and hope it landed to someone on his team.

I just see CK's learning curve being wayyyyy to steep to become an elite passer in the NFL. As I stated in another thread, he's VY Part 2 and to say VY is a good QB is absurd. Off the field issues and attitude is part of being a successful QB in the NFL. Regarding CK and the Senior Bowl, CK ran every chance he had instead of keeping his eyes downfield for a pass.
I'm done debating the CK thread - We'll let the draft and the NFL experts conclude this debate in April. My prediction is early 3rd round for CK, Locker will get picked in the 2nd because of his "hype" and all the other Senior Bowl QBs will go in rd 3 or higher with Ponder being the 1st one out of everyone aside from CK and JL. McElroy and Dalton shouldn't be drafted honestly.
Every QB I listed average 15 yards or more rushing per game, most, even Jon Kitna had well over 4.5 ypc... that is called scrambling ability, especially after you factor out the rushing attempts that were kneel downs.

So you honestly don't think Aaron Rodgers, Michael Vick, Matt Cassell, Ben Roethlisberger, Romo, Cutler, Fitzpatrick, and others (Kitna had the stats to prove mobiity, VY and Garrard have the mobility to justify putting them on the field) aren't mobile? That was one of the major topics of discussion with some of the playoff games, which was how mobile some of these QBs are.... and you don't think they are.

As for VInce Young, the guy's lifetime record as a starter is 30-17, which puts him pretty high up on the list for win% for active NFL QBs... and before you go thinking that it was the great team around him, the TItans just fired their coach for a reason (they went 6-10 this season, VY went 4-4) and it was long overdue. Six playoff appearances in 16 seasons don't exactly scream "SUCCESS!". And considering the Titans were 4-12, and 5-11 the two seasons immediately preceding VY, it is safe to assume that the 8-8 and 10-6 seasons after he came aboard might have had a little something to do with him, it is safe to bet that VY's biggest problems aren't on the field, but off.

You think CK is VY part 2, good for you, but there really aren't that many similarities. Though CK has very similar size to VY when he came out of college (6044 225 compared to 6045 229 lbs), CK has a far stronger arm, and much better straightline speed, which comes in far more handy than VY's ability to punish tacklers like he did in college.

Like I've said a million times before, CK is a much closer match physically and background-wise to former UNLV and Eagles and Vikings star, Randall Cunningham. Especially considering that CK has been known as a very hardworker while VY was known as a dummy (5 on Wonderlic) and a hothead (public tantrums after not winning Heisman in 2006). Considering how unintelligent and immature VY has shown he is as a pro, it is not surprising to see how he turned out.

As for your assumption that CK ran EVERY time he got pressured in the pocket, you couldn't be more wrong and living in your own little revisionist history. He was pressured threee different times only to step up and deliver strikes. The first time he stepped up underneath a rush from his right and threw a strike that bounced off Mike McNeil's hands for an INT, the other time he threw a strike to a WR in the intermediate zone to his right, and the last time he stepped up and ran parrallel to the LOS to have Hunter drop his pass at the left sideline. He ran 4 times, at least 2 of which were designed runs. I can't remember one his runs, but the 7 yarder was the one he ran from 3rd and goal from the 15 and it was a far better play than trying to force the ball into coverage. Your asserting that he took off every time he was pressured tells me that you either didn't watch any of the game, you just remember what you WANT to remember, or you have no idea of what you're talking about. Personally, I think it is a bit of all 3.

Ok, let's get some else clear... when you state that somebody will be "picked in the 2nd rounder or higher"... what you're saying is they will get picked in round 3 or higher... meaning round 1 or 2. I'm not sure if you knew that. I think what you mean is "3rd round or LATER". I think McElroy and Dalton will be drafted. They will be solid clipboard guys with whomever drafts them. They are both very smart, prepare well, and are the kind of guys you look for to be backups for a long time. Nobody will likely look at either of them and think that he is the answer to their problems at QB but they should be drafted.

I think you underestimate how much the NFL is a QB's league. Jake Locker still goes in round 1 no matter how much hype he has. He has a gun, can run like hell, has good enough size, and only has 2 seasons in a pro style offense. He needs developing for sure, but he has the raw tools a coach would love to work with. Same with CK. No team that has seen the early success of Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Josh Freeman, and Mark Sanchez is going to pass on a possible special QB (remember all the questions about Roethlisberger's and Flacco's level of competition, Ryan's arm strength, Freeman's accuracy and ability to adapt to a pro style offense and accuracy, and Sanchez's starting experience-12 or 13 games?) ALL QBs come into the league with questions. Rivers had a crazy release and questionable feet and arm strength (he also came from the spread), Brees had more questions than most QBs in recent memory (arm strength, size, collegiate offense), it's part of the process.

As for CK having to adapt to playing in the NFL, consider the fact that the majority of the pass coming from the QBs in the playoffs, came from shotgun, it would make sense that the jump to playing under OC is not as big of a deal as you might think. Here are the numbers for passes thrown from shotgun for playoff QBs: Peyton Manning attempted 76% of his passes out of the gun this year. Aaron Rodgers 65%. Tom Brady 64%. Kevin Kolb 64%. Ben Roethlisberger 62%. Michael Vick 61%. Matt Ryan 58%. Drew Brees 57%. Matt Hasselbeck 56%. Matt Cassel 52%. Joe Flacco 46%. Mark Sanchez 44%.Jay Cutler 15%. Maybe the biggest adjustment needed to be made here isn't with CK's adjustment to the NFL, but to the way you view him as a prospect.
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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Every QB I listed average 15 yards or more rushing per game, most, even Jon Kitna had well over 4.5 ypc... that is called scrambling ability, especially after you factor out the rushing attempts that were kneel downs.

So you honestly don't think Aaron Rodgers, Michael Vick, Matt Cassell, Ben Roethlisberger, Romo, Cutler, Fitzpatrick, and others (Kitna had the stats to prove mobiity, VY and Garrard have the mobility to justify putting them on the field) aren't mobile? That was one of the major topics of discussion with some of the playoff games, which was how mobile some of these QBs are.... and you don't think they are.

As for VInce Young, the guy's lifetime record as a starter is 30-17, which puts him pretty high up on the list for win% for active NFL QBs... and before you go thinking that it was the great team around him, the TItans just fired their coach for a reason (they went 6-10 this season, VY went 4-4) and it was long overdue. Six playoff appearances in 16 seasons don't exactly scream "SUCCESS!". And considering the Titans were 4-12, and 5-11 the two seasons immediately preceding VY, it is safe to assume that the 8-8 and 10-6 seasons after he came aboard might have had a little something to do with him, it is safe to bet that VY's biggest problems aren't on the field, but off.

You think CK is VY part 2, good for you, but there really aren't that many similarities. Though CK has very similar size to VY when he came out of college (6044 225 compared to 6045 229 lbs), CK has a far stronger arm, and much better straightline speed, which comes in far more handy than VY's ability to punish tacklers like he did in college.

Like I've said a million times before, CK is a much closer match physically and background-wise to former UNLV and Eagles and Vikings star, Randall Cunningham. Especially considering that CK has been known as a very hardworker while VY was known as a dummy (5 on Wonderlic) and a hothead (public tantrums after not winning Heisman in 2006). Considering how unintelligent and immature VY has shown he is as a pro, it is not surprising to see how he turned out.

As for your assumption that CK ran EVERY time he got pressured in the pocket, you couldn't be more wrong and living in your own little revisionist history. He was pressured threee different times only to step up and deliver strikes. The first time he stepped up underneath a rush from his right and threw a strike that bounced off Mike McNeil's hands for an INT, the other time he threw a strike to a WR in the intermediate zone to his right, and the last time he stepped up and ran parrallel to the LOS to have Hunter drop his pass at the left sideline. He ran 4 times, at least 2 of which were designed runs. I can't remember one his runs, but the 7 yarder was the one he ran from 3rd and goal from the 15 and it was a far better play than trying to force the ball into coverage. Your asserting that he took off every time he was pressured tells me that you either didn't watch any of the game, you just remember what you WANT to remember, or you have no idea of what you're talking about. Personally, I think it is a bit of all 3.

Ok, let's get some else clear... when you state that somebody will be "picked in the 2nd rounder or higher"... what you're saying is they will get picked in round 3 or higher... meaning round 1 or 2. I'm not sure if you knew that. I think what you mean is "3rd round or LATER". I think McElroy and Dalton will be drafted. They will be solid clipboard guys with whomever drafts them. They are both very smart, prepare well, and are the kind of guys you look for to be backups for a long time. Nobody will likely look at either of them and think that he is the answer to their problems at QB but they should be drafted.

I think you underestimate how much the NFL is a QB's league. Jake Locker still goes in round 1 no matter how much hype he has. He has a gun, can run like hell, has good enough size, and only has 2 seasons in a pro style offense. He needs developing for sure, but he has the raw tools a coach would love to work with. Same with CK. No team that has seen the early success of Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Josh Freeman, and Mark Sanchez is going to pass on a possible special QB (remember all the questions about Roethlisberger's and Flacco's level of competition, Ryan's arm strength, Freeman's accuracy and ability to adapt to a pro style offense and accuracy, and Sanchez's starting experience-12 or 13 games?) ALL QBs come into the league with questions. Rivers had a crazy release and questionable feet and arm strength (he also came from the spread), Brees had more questions than most QBs in recent memory (arm strength, size, collegiate offense), it's part of the process.

As for CK having to adapt to playing in the NFL, consider the fact that the majority of the pass coming from the QBs in the playoffs, came from shotgun, it would make sense that the jump to playing under OC is not as big of a deal as you might think. Here are the numbers for passes thrown from shotgun for playoff QBs: Peyton Manning attempted 76% of his passes out of the gun this year. Aaron Rodgers 65%. Tom Brady 64%. Kevin Kolb 64%. Ben Roethlisberger 62%. Michael Vick 61%. Matt Ryan 58%. Drew Brees 57%. Matt Hasselbeck 56%. Matt Cassel 52%. Joe Flacco 46%. Mark Sanchez 44%.Jay Cutler 15%. Maybe the biggest adjustment needed to be made here isn't with CK's adjustment to the NFL, but to the way you view him as a prospect.
So you still have yet to say if CK will be a 1st round draft pick or not? Which is the only reason for why I even started to comment on this thread.

I'm calling 3rd round and LATER but if he's lucky due to a WEAK QB class, he may go late 2nd round, unfortunately.

I compliment you for doing your research on numbers though. I merely have the time to compile actual stats nor do I think stats tell the whole story or even a significant part of a prospects ability. I do judge a book by its cover regarding scouting (currently) because it's not my job yet. Once I can focus 1000% of my time on it, stats will be incorporated into an evaluation. "It's part of the process"
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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So you still have yet to say if CK will be a 1st round draft pick or not? Which is the only reason for why I even started to comment on this thread.

I'm calling 3rd round and LATER but if he's lucky due to a WEAK QB class, he may go late 2nd round, unfortunately.

I compliment you for doing your research on numbers though. I merely have the time to compile actual stats nor do I think stats tell the whole story or even a significant part of a prospects ability. I do judge a book by its cover regarding scouting (currently) because it's not my job yet. Once I can focus 1000% of my time on it, stats will be incorporated into an evaluation. "It's part of the process"
I've stated numerous times in this post where I thought he would go, top 64 with an emphasis that he goes around where Cunningham went (#37 overall) with a +/- of 10-20 spots. I'm looking at anywhere from pick #25 overall to #57.
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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I've stated numerous times in this post where I thought he would go, top 64 with an emphasis that he goes around where Cunningham went (#37 overall) with a +/- of 10-20 spots. I'm looking at anywhere from pick #25 overall to #57.
C'mooooon man!!! That's like me betting on Tom Brady throwing a TD pass vs the Broncos secondary. Too general - Huge room for someone to say, "Yep I told ya"

I'll call my pick right now. Buffalo Bills draft pick in rd 3. Chan Gailey always makes decent NFL QBs out of guys who weren't necessarily your prototypical NFL QB. Thigpen and Fitz in recent future...not to mention Reggie Ball was an ok QB at GT.
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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C'mooooon man!!! That's like me betting on Tom Brady throwing a TD pass vs the Broncos secondary. Too general - Huge room for someone to say, "Yep I told ya"

I'll call my pick right now. Buffalo Bills draft pick in rd 3. Chan Gailey always makes decent NFL QBs out of guys who weren't necessarily your prototypical NFL QB. Thigpen and Fitz in recent future...not to mention Reggie Ball was an ok QB at GT.
I say he could go at #25 to Seahawks (who knows how desperate they are for a future signal caller?), Bills at #34 (depending on if they pick a QB in round 1), Cards at #38 (depending on if they pick a QB in round 1), Titans at #39 (blah blah, round 1), Skins at #41 blah blah), Vikings at #43 (blah), 49ers at #45 (though this is one place I don't think he'll fit), Raiders at #48 (he certainly has enough tattoos to impress Al Davis), Jags at #49 (depending if they pick a QB in round 1, which I doubt with DelRio likely gone after this season), or Seahawks at #57. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Dolphins somehow get back into round 2 to get him. Although in an effort to locate the Dolphins 2nd round draft pick I just stumbled onto this site that had the Dolphins taking CK at #15 overall (http://newnfldraft.com/archives/2221).
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:18 PM    (permalink
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C'mooooon man!!! That's like me betting on Tom Brady throwing a TD pass vs the Broncos secondary. Too general - Huge room for someone to say, "Yep I told ya"

I'll call my pick right now. Buffalo Bills draft pick in rd 3. Chan Gailey always makes decent NFL QBs out of guys who weren't necessarily your prototypical NFL QB. Thigpen and Fitz in recent future...not to mention Reggie Ball was an ok QB at GT.
Considering Scott Wright and a few others have come on here and said that he is "definitely not going to be a QB in the NFL" while others have said that anybody would be crazy to pick him before round 4 and that "he's still not going to be a good QB"... I would say that stating that he'll go between picks 25 and 57 is a pretty good guess...but my best guesses would be between #25-43.
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Old 02-03-2011, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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Kaepernick's release is a little slow, and he needs to learn how to become a 5 step, drop back passer in the NFL. But he does have all the physical tools, and the thing I love about him is that when he gets outside the pocket to avoid the rush, he's still looking to throw (Aaron Rodgers-like).

I like the arm strength, accuracy, poise, pocket presence and athleticism. There are concerns, but I like him a lot more today than I did a week ago.

He's the number 2 QB on my board, and there really isn't anybody outside of him and Gabbert that I'd spend more than a 4th round pick on.
What about Newton? If he dropped to 15 I'd think Miami would be all over him. I do think the Dolphins are looking at either Gabbert, Newton or Kaepernick.
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Old 02-03-2011, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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Whoa.. there are some huge Kaepernick slappies here. Guy is a major project. His release is nothing like Philip Rivers. Rivers still gets the ball out in a hurry, while Kaepernick takes some time. He'll have to go through a mechanical change in his throwing motion. I suspect he'll go in the 3rd or later.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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Do you guys think new threads about the guy will make people like him more?

He's overrated right now. For one, this QB class is terrible and people are trying to find someone...anyone to hype if they even show a glimpse of being good. Secondly, CK is good at showing glimpses... but if you want a good legit QB, then he's not your man. He's not a drop back passer. Doesn't see the field as good as you want him to, is not that accurate, and simply doesn't have a good sense of the QB position.

If you want cocky, mobile, strong armed and tall... he's your man. If you want a back up, he can be groomed. If you want a franchise NFL QB, look away... look faaaaaaar away.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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Whoa.. there are some huge Kaepernick slappies here. Guy is a major project. His release is nothing like Philip Rivers. Rivers still gets the ball out in a hurry, while Kaepernick takes some time. He'll have to go through a mechanical change in his throwing motion. I suspect he'll go in the 3rd or later.
Yeah, I like the guy a lot as a competitor and a leader, one of my favorite college players in the last few years. But I see Colin as an athlete playing QB instead of a QB who happens to be athletic. He'd be an exciting backup, but he needs three to four years at least if he were to develop into a capable starter.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:04 AM    (permalink
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At this point it's all about what's inside CK heart and head, where he's drafted and who his OC and QB coach are.

Physically he has the tools to play in the NFL at a high level.

One thing about today's NFL is that teams seem to be more willing to tailor an offense around what a QB does best, and not constantly put their signal caller
in an adverse situation that doesn't play to their strengths.

I personally like him, and would spend a pick on him anywhere from #28 on down.

But let's watch the Senior Bowl first!!!
Nice call. 90% A
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:05 AM    (permalink
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His upside is through the roof. People want to knock him and say that his passing delivery and college offense are going to hold him back at the NFL level but I call shenanigans. Does he have a lot to learn and a lot to improve on? Absolutely. But often times rookie QBs with exceptional athleticism come in and just make plays because of how dynamic they are and I believe that Colin could be that type of player early in his career ala Tim Tebow, Mike Vick, Vince Young, Donovan McNabb and other mobile guys. If you put him out there he won't run an efficient offense but he sure as hell will make you some plays IMO with his explosive running and throwing ability and he wouldn't be the first mobile QB to do exactly that.

But he has a lot to learn but he seems like a guy who is good enough between the ears to eventually learn those things and that coupled with his incredibly tempting athleticism will get him a shot at a starting QB spot in the NFL on a team.
Another nice read, 93%, A
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:06 AM    (permalink
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Colin Kaepernick in the 4th, sure. I will laugh 96 times straight if that happens.

Anywhere after #12 overall is a steal for the team that gets Colin.
Not bad, sarcasm followed by accolades. 89% B+
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:07 AM    (permalink
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I've said it before the Senior Bowl week started and I'll say it yet again. According to those that have been around him, CK has excellent work ethic. I feel tthat, and the ability to actually throw a ball is the most important thing a QB can have. Obviously, great natural talent will allow that player with a great work ethic to be a better player. If you take a look through NFL history, the QBs with the great work ethic are the most successful. Manning, Brady, Rivers, Brees... and now look at the difference work ethic has made to Michael Vick. He went from being a unmatched physical talent without a great work ethic (according to his own admission) to a slightly lesser physical talent (than he was) with an improved work ethic and he had by far his best season ever. Consider Ty Detmer and Chad Pennington's work ethics. Both of those guys were among the least physically talented QBs of the past 30 years and yet they both had long careers because they worked so hard at their craft.

I don't understand Scott and Shane's disdain for CK. Obviously CK has tremendous physical tools. He might be the most physically gifted QB (from an NFL standpoint as speed > strength as a runner) to come out in several years, he has an excellent work ethic.. and he's not stupid.. so what's the hang-up? Yeah, he ran the pistol offense in college... and Brees ran the spread, so did Bradford, Freeman, and VY, Rivers ran a lot of spread, McNabb ran some option, so CK ran the pistol, which is basically a more powerful spread.

When comparing CK to other prospects making the jump to the NFL you go back to last season and compare him with Tebow. As far as this comparison goes, CK has better size, a much better arm, better mobility, though his release isn't ideal-it is far better than Tebow's (it isn't a whole lot worse than Philip Rivers's was when he came out). I thought the Broncos and McDaniels jumped the gun a bit on Tebow and could have got him in the early 2nd without any feat of losing him...and as much as we slammed McDaniels for horrible decisions with personnel, this is one that actually didn't look so bad. Tebow put up 23 points or more in each of his starts, won 1 of his 3 games and looked competent while doing it. How did Tebow manage that despite not being a GREAT prospect? Work ethic. Everybody knew that Tebow would work harder than everybody and despite his perceived limitations, he had enough physical ability that he worked hard enough to make it work. And that's what I see with CK... only I don't see nearly as many physical limitations.

I've compared CK to Randall Cunningham when he came out of UNLV in the 80's and I'm sticking to it. Both QBs had very thin builds. Cunningham was 6'4 205 when he came out of school, Kaepernick 6'5 225 though he looks very thin. Both QBs had very strong arms and amazing straight line speed (Cunningham 4.6 to CK's 4.5). Both QBs had hitches in their deliveries. Cunningham's release resembled a whip... CK drops the ball down as low as his solar plexus before bringing it back up to throw. As we all know, Cunningham had an excellent career, just like I think CK can as well.

Randall Cunningham was drafted #37 overall in the 85 draft... and that's where I expect CK to be drafted, give or take 10-15 spots down or up. I expect him to be gone between picks 24-50.

I watched the Senior Bowl practices and though NFLN had the worst coverage possible, I saw, on average, of 4 throws from Kaepernick per day... and throws I saw were there, some spectacular, some were screens, dump-offs, etc. Regardless of what happened on the other 46 throws CK had each day, he really brung the wow factor on several of the the throws I saw and based on that, NFL GMs will be more apt to take a chance on him because of it... especially considering how well he moves his feet. People always say that a good TE... or a running game, are a young QB's best friend... well, there's one more... his feet. Young QBs that can move their feet and put pressure on a defense that way as well as keeping the chains moving and buy time for better throws have shown to really help a young QB until that QB gets a hang of the offensive system.

From a physical comparison standpoint to other similar type QBs in the past 20 years, CK is as good or better physically than Tebow, Kordell Stewart, Vince Young (better arm, speed, not a mental patient), Quncy Carter, Pat White, Tavaris Jackson, Jason Campbell, Shaun King, and even Steve McNair (better size, speed, and far better level of competition) and all of these guys were taken in either rounds 1 or 2. Colt McCoy was a 3rd rounder with a similar style but had ZERO abilities close to be on par with CK.

Obviously, many of these guys didn't make it in the NFL and only McNair became a star... but if you compare the success ratio of these QBs with all other 1st and 2nd round QBs taken in the last 20 years you'll see similar results. And this isn't even including one QB, omiitted because he has the feet of an OG, Byron Leftwich (comparable arm strength, way better release, and 1000X better feet) which I wanted to include because people continually ant to harp on CK's less than ideal throwing motion... which is still way better than Tebow, Leftwich, and on par with VY's and Philip River's.

Whether you really like CK, or like Scott and Shane-you hate him... let's face it, when you state that somebody will NEVER start in the NFL and you predict nothing but doom and gloom, you can't help but to root against a guy if for no other reason than to be right, so you guys hate him, you can't deny his physical talent. Considering the NFL drafts more based on potential than production (and CK has plenty of both), there is no denying his potential. There is also the great work ethic... and he certainly doesn't seem stupid, CK should go in the 1st 2 rounds.

One thing I will agree with Shane and Scott on is that CK should not be thrust immediately into a starting role. As a matter of fact, I would prefer to see him brought along the way Cunningham or Steve McNair were, by inserting them in for a series, putting them in for certain plays (wlidcat-type) and let him get his feet wet that way.

This guy has way too much talent for anybody to immediately announce he will NEVER make it in the NFL. Considering far less talented, experienced, and esteemed (by others) QBs like Tom Brady, Jeff Garcia, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, Rich Gannon (yes, he was drafted-but as a DB and then was gotten rid of when he declared he only wanted to play QB!), Jake Delhomme, David Garrard, and numerous others were said to have no shot at being a starting QB in the NFL, I think it is very premature to declare a player that has tremendous gifts, a strong work ethic, outstanding production, and good character to not have a chance.
Hey, that's me. Good job me! 99% A
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:08 AM    (permalink
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This guy will be the best QB out of this class. Mark it down.
Ouch, this guy is right on the money. 100% A+
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:08 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
If the league goes to 18 games and the pre season is significantly reduced, developing a QB could become very difficult making drafting one high even a higher priority. This guy is a project but with his arm and other assets, he should go reasonably high, maybe round 2/3 but likely round 4/5.
Can he be developed in the new 18 game NFL, we'll just have to see because he'll never get much of an opportunity in pre season to play.
Not very good, could be worse 71% C-
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:10 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
This is the "scouting report" I've compiled on Kapernick. I think I'm warming up to the guy because his accuracy is impressive but I'm not his biggest fan.

The Good
- Height isn't a problem (6'4 1/2)
- Rocket arm, perhaps the best in his class
- Accurate overall on all types of passes
- Throws a very catchable ball
- Good internal clock, doesn't take a lot of uneeded sacks
- Mobile, will flash an impressive second gear in the open field
- Keeps eyes downfield while on move
- Clutch
- Leader, winner
- Ultra-productive career both passing and running
- A strong senior year
- Good coaching
- Durable
The Bad
- "Gumby" body, needs to fill out his frame
- Struggles in the red zone, turnover prone
- Will stare down receivers, force some throws
- Will throw across his body
- Bit of a windup
- Tends to hold the ball away from his body when running, prone to fumbling
- May be a little too quick to hit checkdown, doesn't always go through progressions
- Pistol offense
Other
- Four year starter, 50 games
- Three straight years of 2000 yards passing, 1000 yards rushing, first to ever do so
- 140 career touchdowns passing and rushing
- Just under 14000 yards ot total offense
- Defeated Bosie St to eliminate them from championship contention
- Coached by ultra-experienced coach Chris Ault
- Throws a 90+ mph fastball, drafted by Cubs in 43rd round
Final Word
Very interesting skillset coupled with one of the most productive careers for any college QB. Has the physical tools but the mental side is suspect.
Games Watched
at Hawaii (half), at Idaho (half), at Fresno St, vs Bosie St, vs Boston College
Hmmmm, not a big fan... mental side is suspect, Gumby body? 75% C
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:11 AM    (permalink
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Did this seriously just happen? This is the very definition of post whoring.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:11 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by PhinsRock View Post
Kaepernick's release is a little slow, and he needs to learn how to become a 5 step, drop back passer in the NFL. But he does have all the physical tools, and the thing I love about him is that when he gets outside the pocket to avoid the rush, he's still looking to throw (Aaron Rodgers-like).

I like the arm strength, accuracy, poise, pocket presence and athleticism. There are concerns, but I like him a lot more today than I did a week ago.

He's the number 2 QB on my board, and there really isn't anybody outside of him and Gabbert that I'd spend more than a 4th round pick on.
Good and bad... 85% B
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