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Old 01-14-2013, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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I'm not saying it has anything to do with his leadership, but at this point in Tuck's career there are a lot of games and downs were he doesn't make an impact on the field, with some games and instances where he still beasts. I can't know exactly why that is, but it is what it is and it would be in the best interests of the team's success to recognize that and use him more like you do a streaky scorer in basketball, if he's on that night ride him and if he's cold utilize your other options.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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He's been hurt for the last 2 years and just because he isn't playing well doesn't mean he's not trying. You don't know what he was saying in the locker room plus when they did show him giving his pregame speech he certainly had everyone fired up then. Who gives a **** what he says to Mike Francesa on a Monday afternoon? Eli was saying the same bland **** as Tuck but you haven't said anything about him.

Yeah and we still finished the season 9-7 and we can look to about a million different turning points as to why the season turned the way it did. Tuck's leadership is not one of them.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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He isn't trying. Dude just watch his snaps, he took tons of plays off this year. TONS. His motor ran very cold many times. His effort vs Atlanta and Baltimore were downright pathetic.

I know Eli is giving 1000% on every snap. I can't say the same for Tuck. Eli never got called out for poor practice habits. Tuck did. Eli has never been called out for being soft, Tuck has.

Take the blinders off, and look at the product on the field. The film doesn't lie. This guy was loafing around out there. And when teammates call you out, there's a cause for concern.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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He isn't trying. Dude just watch his snaps, he took tons of plays off this year. TONS. His motor ran very cold many times. His effort vs Atlanta and Baltimore were downright pathetic.

I know Eli is giving 1000% on every snap. I can't say the same for Tuck. Eli never got called out for poor practice habits. Tuck did. Eli has never been called out for being soft, Tuck has.

Take the blinders off, and look at the product on the field. The film doesn't lie. This guy was loafing around out there. And when teammates call you out, there's a cause for concern.
There is a good thread on BBI about Tuck right now. He's always been hurt since Flozell tripped him and he still guts it out. I think you're way off base.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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What matters is that Jerry Reese thinks Tuck can rebound and has a lot left in the tank.
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Old 01-14-2013, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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There is a good thread on BBI about Tuck right now. He's always been hurt since Flozell tripped him and he still guts it out. I think you're way off base.
That Flozell injury was like 4 years ago. It's not an excuse anymore. Tuck has had a reputation for being soft about injuries even during his college days. That's why he fell in the draft, he had an injury history and worse, he didn't handle injuries well mentally.

The realistic expectation is he's never going to be healthy anymore, and worse, bc of that, we're not gonna see him play with a high motor every play. Nothing irks me more than DLmen who play with an inconsistent motor. His last productive year was 2010, and he before that 2008. Basically, since he became a fulltime starter in 2008, he's had 2 productive years. In 5 years. That's awful. And it's not magically gonna get better with age and injuries, and complacency.

BBI is a good website, but they're a homerfest. You gotta take that information with a grain of salt.
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Old 01-14-2013, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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That Flozell injury was like 4 years ago. It's not an excuse anymore. Tuck has had a reputation for being soft about injuries even during his college days. That's why he fell in the draft, he had an injury history and worse, he didn't handle injuries well mentally.

The realistic expectation is he's never going to be healthy anymore, and worse, bc of that, we're not gonna see him play with a high motor every play. Nothing irks me more than DLmen who play with an inconsistent motor. His last productive year was 2010, and he before that 2008. Basically, since he became a fulltime starter in 2008, he's had 2 productive years. In 5 years. That's awful. And it's not magically gonna get better with age and injuries, and complacency.

BBI is a good website, but they're a homerfest. You gotta take that information with a grain of salt.
I've mentioned a few times this year I think Tuck is done. I'm fine with you going after his game because clearly he did jack this year. I just think the other stuff you keep bringing up is unfair especially when we're not in the locker room but I'll give it a rest now.

My only hope is that Tuck in a limited role as a 3rd or 4th DE can give us good snaps again. He clearly shouldn't start anymore.
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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Should we consider moving Tuck inside to DT?

With a good offseason program he should be able to add 20lbs of muscle.
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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so reading up on Sam Montgomery of LSU, I'd like him. He's versatile as hell and would be a nice RE so JPP could play LE. He may not be the sexy, flashy pick, but I think he'd be very nice to add. Him in the first would be a pretty damn good pick IMO
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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I want JPP to stick at RDE and not move him around. Let him develop at the one position and learn his craft.

I'm not that enamoured with Montgomery or Jordan for that matter. They seem to be passrushing RDEs, we already have JPP.

We need to get a LDE
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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I've mentioned a few times this year I think Tuck is done. I'm fine with you going after his game because clearly he did jack this year. I just think the other stuff you keep bringing up is unfair especially when we're not in the locker room but I'll give it a rest now.

My only hope is that Tuck in a limited role as a 3rd or 4th DE can give us good snaps again. He clearly shouldn't start anymore.
I normally agree with you on things like this GF, but Tuck's lack of trying ON the field is a big part of leadership. If you're a leader on the team you can't just give up on plays which to me he clearly was doing.

I understand injury may play into this, but from all accounts Tuck is healthy. I can't give him a break if I don't know of an undisclosed injury.

That and his comments about "turning it on when we need to" or "looking at our history" and such were a load of garbage. As fans, we can have this attitude, but as a player to just EXPECT things to happen and adjust themselves is insane. Maybe its injury with Tuck, maybe he just sucks and doesn't care, or maybe after winning another Superbowl he's lost his motivation. I couldn't say.

I do think it's fair to question his leadership when he's quite visibly not putting in the effort. I can't comment on inside the locker room but I can look at the available evidence to me.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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I think the team lacked motivation to a certain extent this year. I'm not saying they weren't motivated at all, because of course they want to win the Super Bowl and defend their title and what have you.

But they weren't motivated enough throughout the season. I wouldn't say the horrible losses are examples of when they weren't motivated enough. But the great games, the 49er game and the Packer game, those are examples of when we were top motivated to go out and get a W. We wanted to play 49ers, the best team in the NFC (IMO), and we wanted to show the packers we hadn't forgotten the lack of respect from them after we won there last year. And we looked like the best team in the NFL.

I think that team is our real identity. At least something closer to that, than to the Giants versions that lost in horrible fashion to the Falcons and Ravens. But we just didn't manage to stay top motivated for long stretches of games this season. My reasoning for doubting the team this season never had anything to do with physical talent. It had to do with the mental state of the team, judging from interviews and press conferences.

I think we will be back in top contention next year. The carrot of being able to possibly play a Super Bowl in your home stadium should provide motivation enough for the players. Combined with the fact that they now won't be hailed as the reigning champs everywhere they go this offseason.

At least that's what I'm hoping for.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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I think part of the attitude stuff started in preseason

1. Some players rested on their achievements last year a little after the superbowl and didn't work as hard they previously did in offseason. They lost that edge and hunger.

2. We had a lot of defesnive guys in particular with injuring issues both in offseason and regular season. With the new CBA and the limited contact /practices there wasn't enough reps with the starters to properly prepare.

3. We had consistently changing lineups, particularly on defense. Lot of players got banged up, which meant we often had fluctuating player combinations in practice and games as we had to adjust. We couldn't get establish combinations and become a cohesive unit. We were more a group of individuals.

4. The defensive players didn't hit the panic button, there wasn't that sense of urgency/deperation that was needed. The players were confident they could turn it on when needed, but when it counted, they couldn't.


The first and last points come very down to leadership. Honestly Tuck was one of the biggest culprits.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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I've heard the Tuck leadership debate as well. One can say that he didn't want the role. That Strahan retired and we were at a place where we needed a guy. I still remember writers and people asking Tuck, "Are you going to be a leader for the Giants?" I always felt like it fell to him, rather than him naturally standing up and being one.

Last season he was down in the dumps, and had to meet with Coughlin to be "all in" and played hard. I think he is good with vocal speeches before games and stuff, but if a leader, leads by example, then I wouldn't say Tuck is a leader.

If people like the speeches and stuff then I guess you can say he does that well. But I will say this it's hard to lead when you are so injury prone and rendered ineffective throughout a season.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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Terrell Thomas is talking about his injury comeback

http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?...8&city=newyork

He has a tough road ahead, we will have to see how he goes. But I hope he can comeback. If we can get him cheaply it is worth a shot.

After people like Peterson can rebound as well as he did after his ACL issue, all bets are off. The key will be when he starts running
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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I'm not holding my breathe, but I would love to see him come back. They have to approach the offseason as if he's no longer on the team and can't be relied upon anymore though.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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He'd probably be moved to S if he does indeed come back.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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I don't get that either. Isn't his ACL safer as a CB? Safeties go in the box and make more tackles, fight through more traffic, and play the middle of the field.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Probably a speed/cutting issue more so than a preventive measure.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:04 PM    (permalink
Big_Pete
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If we can resign Phillips and Brown plus successfully move Thomas to safety, then we have an exceptionally strong group of safeties with Phillips, Rolle, Thomas, Brown and Hill/Sash.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:00 AM    (permalink
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Marc Ross pulled out of the running to become the next Jets manager! This probably means he won't be going anywhere this season, as there's no more open GM positions his name has been linked to! Good News!

Also, Eli Manning is going to replace Aaron Rodgers in the Pro Bowl. Not that anyone really cares about that stupid game, but I might just watch it now just to get to look at Eli launching bombs one last time before august.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:20 AM    (permalink
Forenci
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Haha, well that's good news. Fortunately for us the Jets are a terrible organization who could have had Ross if they got rid of their fool of a head coach.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:25 AM    (permalink
Giantsfan1080
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Good news for us. Looks like our false smear campaign worked.
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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Good news for us. Looks like our false smear campaign worked.
High fives all around! There's nothing you can't accomplish with hardwork, dedication, and lots and lots of lies.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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As a going away present to us since he'll definitely get a job next year, Ross should take this draft and get us a starter with every pick including multiple Pro Bowlers and even 1 HOF. It's the least he can do for us.
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