2012 Chicago Bears General Discussion

[Gay Ork Wang]

Yea thats like more than a decade ago.

also:

https://twitter.com/mortreport/statu...83941496770560

[Monomach]

Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang

Yea thats like more than a decade ago.

So was the last success he's had in the NFL.

also:

https://twitter.com/mortreport/statu...83941496770560

That is...wow.

I guess Emery really liked how his 2009 looked.

edit: I mean...it does make some sense when you think about it. The Favre and Cutler similarities are pretty obvious. I am...ambivalent?

[Gay Ork Wang]

"Bears will meet again with Seahawks OC Darrell Bevell and Montreal HC Marc Trestman, first 2 candidates to be identified as Bears finalists."

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/sta...88651784048641

[asdf1223]

I'm mixed about Bevell really. I really like him as a playcaller, has done a ton with QB development and pretty much brought in a brand new wrinkle middle of the season and dynamically changed the offense.

But at the same time, he's not involved in the design of the offense(Carroll and Cable have the most input), he gets way too cute sometimes. I don't think he's ready to be a HC yet and if he is he needs a out of the ballpark hire for Defensive Co-ordinator. I'll miss him in Seattle but I am slightly skeptical of his success even if I root for him.

[Monomach]

Bears coaching rumors: Bruce Arians also a finalist

Help us, Arians Kenobi! You're our only hope!

[Gay Ork Wang]

I really dont understand how Arians is any better. Those Steeler Offense were not great and Big Ben was continuously under pressure. People never went: WOW, that steelers offense is winning them the Superbowl!

[Monomach]

Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang

I really dont understand how Arians is any better. Those Steeler Offense were not great and Big Ben was continuously under pressure. People never went: WOW, that steelers offense is winning them the Superbowl!

He's had success with his own NFL offense, and he's been successful recently, not a hundred years ago.

The Steelers offenses were fine. If we'd had those offenses this year, we'd still be playing.

[Docta]

Toub is reportedly leaving the Bears. Likely headed to the Chiefs..

[Gay Ork Wang]

I really think you guys are really overreacting to the thought of trestman.

I mean we are potentially hiring him as a HC not an OC. It is important to consider his abilities as a leader, teacher of the game, and game planner, not just as an offensive mind. And that doesnt matter if he was in the NFL or CFL. He showed he can lead a team.

Hopefully we will hire a great OC to help him with his offense. Also, his reputation with working with QBs in the NFL is unparalleled. He made Rich Gannon MVP.

[MidwayMonster31]

At least Trestman has successful experiences as a HC. You can't really say the same thing about Bevell or Arians. I just want a coach who is willing to make good adjustments on what isn't working and pay attention to what is working.
The biggest problem that Trestman will have (if he gets chosen) is to get re-acclimated to the NFL rules and systems that other teams use.

[jrdrylie]

Originally Posted by MidwayMonster31

At least Trestman has successful experiences as a HC. You can't really say the same thing about Bevell or Arians. I just want a coach who is willing to make good adjustments on what isn't working and pay attention to what is working.
The biggest problem that Trestman will have (if he gets chosen) is to get re-acclimated to the NFL rules and systems that other teams use.

Arians did do a heck of a job for the Colts this year.

[Docta]

Does it help that he is somewhat in the Bill Walsh coaching tree?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...aft/index.html

Steve Young even said he'd put him up there with Shanahan and Holmgren as far as offensive minds go.

[Gay Ork Wang]

Basically everyone who has ever worked with him has said that he is the smartest man in the room. Just look at how Gannon was talking about that guy. Does it make you a successful coach? No. But it can help.

[Monomach]

Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang

I really think you guys are really overreacting to the thought of trestman.

I mean we are potentially hiring him as a HC not an OC. It is important to consider his abilities as a leader, teacher of the game, and game planner, not just as an offensive mind. And that doesnt matter if he was in the NFL or CFL. He showed he can lead a team.

Hopefully we will hire a great OC to help him with his offense. Also, his reputation with working with QBs in the NFL is unparalleled. He made Rich Gannon MVP.

This almost never happens when an O or D coordinator takes a head coaching job. They always appoint one of their lackeys so that they have micromanaged control over the side of the ball that they know. This is actually a good thing, as it ensures continuity in the system when those lackeys are hired away to be head coaches if they're successful. Good examples are seen in how Walsh, Shanny, Reid, or Holmgren kept losing O coordinators but never really made a change to their offenses. Belicheck is a rare dude in that he micromanages both sides. He constantly loses coordinators, but since it's all his stuff, it never matters.

According to that article from Windy City Gridiron, in the CFL, Trestman showed problems with hiring D and ST coordinators. Sounds like he intentionally picked guys who weren't the strongest available because he was afraid he couldn't control better candidates.

I'm still missing his successes in working with QBs...? His pro QB resume starts in 1987:

1987 Buccaneers QB Coach: An ancient, mediocre veteran with a mediocre year in Steve DeBerg and the #1 overall pick in Vinny Testaverde who had a crappy but long career. Can't give him credit or blame for Steve DeBerg. He was an old dude he had for a single year who didn't need developing and didn't play particularly above or below his norm. Testaverde started the final 4 games, but he played like crap and the Bucs lost all of them. Testaverde didn't have a decent year until 9 years later in 1995.

1988 Browns QB Coach: Bernie Kosar had an ok partial season, but even if you project what he did into a full 16 games, it wasn't as good as his previous two seasons. It wasn't way, way worse or anything, so this season's another wash. Because of Kosar only playing a partial season, the Browns offense went from 3rd to 20th in a 28 team league.

1989 Browns OC: Bernie Kosar and the Browns offense were around the middle of the league (14th of 28), but Kosar was much less efficient than he'd been in previous seasons. The Browns rode the 4th best defense in the league all the way to the AFC championship game. For reference, the best season of Kosar's career was 1987 before Trestman came to Cleveland. Kosar had a very short period of his career in which he was fairly successful. He was accurate in the short game, but not so much going past 15 yards. He had a bad sidearm throwing motion (his college QB coach who didn't break him of that? Trestman). He's a legend in Cleveland because they threw the ball a lot for a short period and the Browns have had terrible QBs since. Anyway...Trestman was fired after the season for not being able to get the offense back to the success they had prior to Trestman coming to town (5th in 86, 3rd in 87).

1990 Vikings QB Coach: A young and terrible Rich Gannon having himself a pick-fest.

1991 Vikings QB Coach: A young and mediocre game managing Rich Gannon. They had to change the offense to shorter passes to reduce his turnovers. Rich Gannon would remain bad for 8 more years following this.

1992-1994: Unable to find a job in NFL or college football, he sold municipal bonds.

1995 49ers OC & QB coach: Trestman is hired as a caretaker for an offensive system that had been among the best in the league since 1981. They were #1 for 3 straight years before Trestman arrived and had the most stacked offensive side of the ball in the league. Steve Young, the most effieicent passer in the league for four seasons prior to this, had his worst season as the 49ers starter as the team had him throwing shorter and shorter passes. Youngs YPA dropped a staggering yard and a half. His QB rating took a 20 point hit. The offense continues to be good, anyway.

1996 49ers OC & QB coach: The shorter passes continued and Steve Young had his second-worst season as the 49ers starter. Offense is still stacked, so they're still damned good. Head Coach George Seifert retires at the end of the season. New coach Steve Mariucci elects to not retain Trestman. Marty Morningwheg gets his first coordinator job in the following season and the deeper passes return. Steve Young becomes more efficient, gaining a yard per attempt and 7 points in passer rating.

1997 Lions QB Coach: Unable to get a coordinator job, Trestman moves on to become the QB coach of the Vikings. Veteran Scott Mitchell has a decent season. Not remotely as good as he was two years prior when he set a bunch of Lions team records, but hey...it's Scott freaking Mitchell. Mitchell shits the bed in the playoffs. This is basically another dead year in Trestman's career where he had chicken **** and didn't manage to make chicken salad out of it or anything.

1998 Cardinals OC & QB Coach: Vince Tobin remembers that Trestman exists and gives him an OC job. The QB is Jake Plummer, who, as we all know, sucks pretty bad. The Cardinals chuck the **** out of the ball. Plummer throws more picks than TDs, has a terrible YPA, and one of the worst passer ratings in the league. The offense finishes in the middle of the league and the team has one of the luckiest seasons in history; they outperform their expected win/loss of 6-10 to go 9-7. Plummer has a crappy game in the WC round, but the defense holds the Cowboys to 7 points and the Cards move on to walk into a buzzsaw...the famous 1998 Vikings team. Plummer plays like crap again and the Vikings offense does nasty things to the Cards. Predictably, the Cards get blown out.

1999 Cardinals OC & QB Coach: The Cardinals start off chucking the ball again. Luck catches up with them and Plummer has by far the worst year of his career and the offense drops all the way down to 30th out of 31.

2000 Cardinals OC & QB coach: Another terrible year from Plummer and the Cards finish at the bottom of the league in offense again (29th of 31). Ownership cleans house. Trestman is of course not brought back after the season. Plummer makes his way to Denver where Shanny does what Trestman couldn't and make Plummer look average.

2001 Raiders QB Coach: Rich Gannon, who had already been turned into a real-life elite QB by Jon Gruden two years earlier, continues to be good. Yes, despite the credit for Gannon that Trestman somehow gets, Gruden had gotten it done while Trestman was still at the helm of a putrid Cardinals offense. His play is essentially the same as the year before, when Trestman was still in Arizona. The Raiders offense pretty much rolls over people.

2002 Raiders OC: Al Davis knows Gruden is about to cost him some serious money, so he's traded away for two first and two second round picks. The new HC is Callahan, Gruden's OC. Trestman moves up into Callahan's old job. The offense continues to roll; the only difference is that Trestman calls a buttload more passing plays, with Gannon leading the league in attempts. Trestman uses the same playcalling script all year that Gruden designed when he built the offense and installed the system. Gruden notices this and teaches Oakland's plays to his new defense in Tampa. Trestman uses the script in the Super Bowl, so Gruden knows the Oakland offensive plays before they happen. Gannon has one of the worst playoff QB performances ever and the Raiders get rolled HARD.

2003 Raiders OC: Rich Gannon has a terrible half of a season before getting injured. The offense is among the worst in the league, even prior to his injury. Al Davis fires everyone. No one is willing to give Trestman another OC job, so he moves on to...

2004 Dolphins QB coach: Here we have another year where Trestman just has terrible QBs and does nothing with them. The offense is terrible, the QBs are terrible, everything is terrible. The head coach is fired along with everyone else, including Trestman. Trestman is offered no coordinator jobs. He is offered a couple of QB coach jobs with teams that have terrible QBs. After his recent experience with that, he declines and goes to be the OC at North Carolina State.

2005-2006: Trestman's out of the NFL as the NC State OC. As far as college jobs go, it's a dead-end. Team sucks, as always. Everyone's fired after the usual sucking in 2006, including Trestman.

2007: Yet again unable to find an NFL job, Trestman goes back to selling municipal bonds.

2008-present: The mythical land called "Canadia" or something...coaching something that only kinda-sorta resembles American football, where every team runs Cover 2 because it's the only thing that does anything at all with the lopsided gimmick offense-favoring rules. The 36-year old QB does not need developing, since he's already been in the league since 1994 and has been successful since 1999. Trestman knows that he won't be taken seriously for what he does in Canada even though he's won the grey cup, so he begs the Minny Golden Gophers to let him be HC. Everyone laughs hysterically and says "that's so cute." He has a good interview with Phil Emery because he's a smart guy, so now...who knows?

Then we have his "QB consulting." His list of successes are all considered failures, so there's that.

The man's reputation as some kind of QB genius comes from taking over two offenses that already had successful veteran QBs before getting fired from both jobs...? Obviously, I'm not sold.

Originally Posted by MidwayMonster31

At least Trestman has successful experiences as a HC. You can't really say the same thing about Bevell or Arians. I just want a coach who is willing to make good adjustments on what isn't working and pay attention to what is working.
The biggest problem that Trestman will have (if he gets chosen) is to get re-acclimated to the NFL rules and systems that other teams use.

Arians has successful NFL HC experience. He's probably going to be coach of the year.

[Monomach]

Marc Trestman is basically the Maurkice Pouncey of coaches. A million years ago, he walked into that cushy 49ers job and people just started saying that he was good because he was along for the ride. People have continued saying it ever since despite his sub-par results, multiple firings, and repeated inability to get an NFL OC or HC job. Just like Pouncey. The guy's always been a middle-of-the-road center, but when he was drafted, people just sort of decided that he's already the best center in the AFC.

I don't doubt that Trestman's a very smart guy. I even like that a lot...but being a goddamned genius doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be successful:

[Gay Ork Wang]

Look at me, Im Monomach and i like to question every move and overreact more than a 13 year old girl over a pimple.

[Monomach]

Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang

Look at me, Im Monomach and i like to question every move and overreact more than a 13 year old girl over a pimple.

Look at me, I'm *** Ork Wang. I like to make sweeping generalizations about things with zero evidential support while making fun of anyone who writes a post containing factual data that runs counter to what I lazily assumed!

[regoob2]

Trestman seems like a really good candidate. Everyone is saying good things about him.

[dabears10]

Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang

Look at me, Im Monomach and i like to question every move and overreact more than a 13 year old girl over a pimple.

Both Gannon and Steve Young have nothing but rave reviews on the guy. Most people in the NFL have very positive views on his ability as an offensive mind. Most question his ability to lead a locker room. It seems he was able to do that in the CFL, but the NFL is a completely different game.

I am fine with any of the choices but always prefer the younger guys, I think Trestman and Arians are too old to be a Head Coach for any longer than 5 years. I would like to have long tenured head coaches.

[Gay Ork Wang]

You pretend like hiring Trestman is like us going out on the street and giving it to the next best hobo. They had an interview for over 8 hours. You really think if he had no idea what he was talking about he could talk that long?

Mike McCarthy was ******* horrible as the OC. And look how that worked out. Every player and coach that has worked with him is raving about him. You are the only one bad mouthing everthing he is done.

[Monomach]

Still waiting for someone to name a QB that this supposed "QB guru" successfully developed. You know, someone who wasn't a veteran with success before he got them.

[Gay Ork Wang]

Yes, Steve Young and Rich Gannon both said he was incredible to work with, but apparently that doesnt count cause they have no idea.

I can live with the argument, that you want someone young but id rather have good 5 years than average or bad 10 years

[Monomach]

Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang

You pretend like hiring Trestman is like us going out on the street and giving it to the next best hobo. They had an interview for over 8 hours. You really think if he had no idea what he was talking about he could talk that long?

Yeah, he's intelligent and interviews well. If that translated to success, we'd still have Mike Martz.

Mike McCarthy was ******* horrible as the OC. And look how that worked out. Every player and coach that has worked with him is raving about him. You are the only one bad mouthing everthing he is done.

LOL. Here we compare Trestman walking into a team with hall of fame talent on offense, including Steve Young (who had his two worst years as the SF starter in Trestman's only two years coordinating him) with a guy walking into a broken-down horrorshow with a rookie Alex Smith.

[Monomach]

Originally Posted by Monomach

Still waiting for someone to name a QB that this supposed "QB guru" successfully developed. You know, someone who wasn't a veteran with success before he got them.

^Still this.

Doesn't matter that Steve Young liked him. Steve Young was better both before and after Trestman than he wast with him.

Doesn't matter that Rich Gannon liked him. Gannon was garbage the first time Trestman had him and had already been developed by Job Gruden the second time Trestman got him.

Our offensive players said they loved Mike Tice, too. Does that mean Mike Tice is a good coordinator?

Marc Trestman has successfully developed zero NFL QBs or offenses. He has, however, been fired a number of times for having crappy offenses or for having good ones that he inherited go bad.

[dabears10]

Originally Posted by Monomach

Still waiting for someone to name a QB that this supposed "QB guru" successfully developed. You know, someone who wasn't a veteran with success before he got them.

When you use exactly contrasting arguments with Steve Young and Rich Gannon it gets to be a little over the top.

They threw more when Trestman was calling plays but they also increased their YPA and completion %. Gannon also increased his QB rating under Trestman.

Now you say it's because of all the extra passes Gannon threw. Well you were against all the stats for Steve Young, even though when they dropped in passing from 95 to 96. It might be that he would be calling a different game depending on his personnel or something?


I am willing to take the vote of confidence given by the players that worked with him rather than critiquing his ability to get very good results out of these players. I am not as smart and Emery or any of these coaches. I am not going to pretend like I am.