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Old 01-17-2013, 04:37 AM    (permalink
Matthew Jones
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My concern with Steve Young being considered among the best quarterbacks of all time is that there are only four or five elite seasons in his career (92, 93, 94, 95?, 98), he had the greatest wide receiver of all time on his team for the entire time (who provided most of his production), and obviously in the final elite year (98), he had Terrell Owens, another of the greatest receivers of all time, along with Jerry Rice. With a guy like Brady, he was winning championships for years with a bunch of receivers no one will remember ten years from now, and ever since he started getting real weapons (Moss, Welker, Gronkowski), he's consistently posted incredible statistics.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:28 AM    (permalink
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My concern with Steve Young being considered among the best quarterbacks of all time is that there are only four or five elite seasons in his career (92, 93, 94, 95?, 98), he had the greatest wide receiver of all time on his team for the entire time (who provided most of his production), and obviously in the final elite year (98), he had Terrell Owens, another of the greatest receivers of all time, along with Jerry Rice. With a guy like Brady, he was winning championships for years with a bunch of receivers no one will remember ten years from now, and ever since he started getting real weapons (Moss, Welker, Gronkowski), he's consistently posted incredible statistics.
He never had the ultimate version of Jerry Rice that Montana had, though. Rice was at his absolute peak in 86-89, and Young out-performed the Montana of those years. In fact, there was even a quarterback controversy in 1988 between Montana and a raw Young. That was the ultra-long facemask version of Steve Young, who didn't have the patience part of the game down yet. Montana also had John Taylor at his peak in 89-90. Young had a little of that in 91-92 (Young missed several games in 91, and Taylor missed half of the 92 season), and one full year of prime Taylor in 93, but Taylor's body started to break down and he was limping towards retirement in 1994-1995. Yet Young continued to thread needles to whomever he could find and was the MVP in 94.

The thing with Young is he took full advantage of every target he was ever given. What happened to J.J. Stokes after Young retired? What happened to Terrell Owens's yards/catch averages after Young retired? What happened to Jerry Rice's numbers in SF after Young retired?

And I'm no Garcia fan, believe me...but he wasn't a bottom-of-the-barrel guy like Skelton/Kolb, for example.

As for the Brady/Young comparison...while Young benefited in the scheme he was in relative to his peers, the system he was in back then, going against 90s defenses, would be the most difficult situation to succeed in for a QB in the league today. Compared to modern quarterbacks, he was having to split hairs with his passes. If Young played in the wide open offenses against the loose defenses of today, he'd complete 70+% of his throws every year. Not a doubt in my mind.

Drew Brees is the only guy currently playing with comparable accuracy, and unlike Brees, Young was excellent with limiting turnovers while he carved teams apart.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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Brady and Manning have virtually identical postseason passing numbers. The only thing that is different are the wins. If two players provide identical production, but their records are different, do you really think one is significantly better or worse than the other? There is more to football than just the quarterback.
Yeah, I think it indicates a big different between the 2 when a game is on the line. Even in the 2 SB's Brady lost, Brady put the Patriots in a position to win, it just took great passes from Eli to win the games.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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Is it too early to declare Manning > Leaf?
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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I like Tark a ton. One of my favorite old school QBs. But he's not in the conversation.

Steve Young? No. I see lots of people talking about "Super Bowls" in here with Young's name attached... He only played in one! He was an idiot that wouldn't stop running with the ball, and his career ended because of it. His career was riddled with concussions and other injuries because he played like a ******.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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Actually, if you look at the play from end-zone camera, Manning slightly underthrew Decker.

If he'd led him another yard or two, Decker wouldn't have had to slow down and the defender wouldn't have got there in time to reach his arm through to tip the ball up for the pick-six.

Yes, it was unlucky the tipped pass was intercepted, but to say it was a perfectly thrown ball is incorrect.
Totally agree. I don't see that throw and think "pick six," but it certainly wasn't a good throw.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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I think looking at a playoff record (while still being part of it) is not the end all and be all of a quarterback. Wins at any stage of the season, while a big barometer of a quarterback, are not fully on the quarterback. QBs get to much credit when things go right and too much blame when they go wrong.

Take Manning for example. On more than one occasion he put his team in a position to win and they didn't due to piss poor Special Teams and Defense (for details on the most recent example please contact Rahim Moore). At the same time there have been occasions where Manning has failed to play well but still won (the 5 field goal game against Baltimore during the Superbowl run).

Take Brady for another example. Some people are saying, mostly due to his Superbowl record, that Brady is the best QB of all time. Say Adam Vinatieri misses those kicks (like Mike Vanderjadgt does for the Colts). The Rams/Panthers win the toss, receive and score. Brady, without ever touching the ball in the game again (and so putting in exactly the same calibre of play as actually happened) would be 15-8 (which is still good) but 1-4 in the Superbowl. Would Brady (considering he'd have played exactly the same, made every throw the same) be considered in the category of the greatest of all time had that happened?
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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Is it too early to declare Manning > Leaf?
Um seriously dude? Manning is still x10 better then Leaf ever was. Manning at least played in mulitple seasons , set records etc . Leaf was just a never was . Dont even make sense.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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Um seriously dude? Manning is still x10 better then Leaf ever was. Manning at least played in mulitple seasons , set records etc . Leaf was just a never was . Dont even make sense.
You're really bad at detecting sarcasm.
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:10 AM    (permalink
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Um seriously dude? Manning is still x10 better then Leaf ever was. Manning at least played in mulitple seasons , set records etc . Leaf was just a never was . Dont even make sense.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:33 AM    (permalink
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Take Brady for another example. Some people are saying, mostly due to his Superbowl record, that Brady is the best QB of all time. Say Adam Vinatieri misses those kicks (like Mike Vanderjadgt does for the Colts). The Rams/Panthers win the toss, receive and score. Brady, without ever touching the ball in the game again (and so putting in exactly the same calibre of play as actually happened) would be 15-8 (which is still good) but 1-4 in the Superbowl. Would Brady (considering he'd have played exactly the same, made every throw the same) be considered in the category of the greatest of all time had that happened?
But then you still have a guy in 7 AFC Championship games and 5 (possibly 6) Super Bowls. And the two actual losses were a collapse by his defenses and a few miracle catches.

He is as close to 5-0 as he is 1-4. Greatest of all time at 1-4? Probably not.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:12 AM    (permalink
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But then you still have a guy in 7 AFC Championship games and 5 (possibly 6) Super Bowls. And the two actual losses were a collapse by his defenses and a few miracle catches.

He is as close to 5-0 as he is 1-4. Greatest of all time at 1-4? Probably not.
Even if that had happened Brady would still be considered a terrific quarterback. But Jim Kelly played in 4 Superbowls. Donovan McNabb played in 5 NFC Championship games. Now Kelly was a Hall of Famer but wouldn't be in the conversation for greatest of all time.

And that is the point. Brady (without touching the ball again) could be 1-4 (he could also be at least 4-1 if the Tyree catch hadn't happened and the defence hadn't failed to stop Manning on the last drive). There is more to winning Superbowls than the QB.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:27 AM    (permalink
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I think looking at a playoff record (while still being part of it) is not the end all and be all of a quarterback. Wins at any stage of the season, while a big barometer of a quarterback, are not fully on the quarterback. QBs get to much credit when things go right and too much blame when they go wrong.

Take Manning for example. On more than one occasion he put his team in a position to win and they didn't due to piss poor Special Teams and Defense (for details on the most recent example please contact Rahim Moore). At the same time there have been occasions where Manning has failed to play well but still won (the 5 field goal game against Baltimore during the Superbowl run).

Take Brady for another example. Some people are saying, mostly due to his Superbowl record, that Brady is the best QB of all time. Say Adam Vinatieri misses those kicks (like Mike Vanderjadgt does for the Colts). The Rams/Panthers win the toss, receive and score. Brady, without ever touching the ball in the game again (and so putting in exactly the same calibre of play as actually happened) would be 15-8 (which is still good) but 1-4 in the Superbowl. Would Brady (considering he'd have played exactly the same, made every throw the same) be considered in the category of the greatest of all time had that happened?
I don't think you can remove that element from the equation either. If you do then really what do you have left? 2 QB's who everybody knows on a given day are very likely to put up well above average production. Luck is inherently part of the game, has Brady had a good amount of good fortune in the postseason yes, but so has Manning. He was spotted 11 points by the refs in the 2006 AFC championship game with awful calls, and they did their best to bail him out against Pittsburgh by inexplicably nullifying that interception that would have iced the game. Likewise Brady had the refs in the tuck game and that miraculous play by Troy Brown against the Chargers.

Just as easily as you could make the argument that Brady could potentially only have 1 SB title, you could just as easily argue if 3 plays went a different way he could have had 6. When you play as many postseason games as Brady and Manning have, the dumb luck tends to even out over time.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:33 AM    (permalink
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I don't think you can remove that element from the equation either. If you do then really what do you have left? 2 QB's who everybody knows on a given day are very likely to put up well above average production. Luck is inherently part of the game, has Brady had a good amount of good fortune in the postseason yes, but so has Manning. He was spotted 11 points by the refs in the 2006 AFC championship game with awful calls, and they did their best to bail him out against Pittsburgh by inexplicably nullifying that interception that would have iced the game. Likewise Brady had the refs in the tuck game and that miraculous play by Troy Brown against the Chargers.

Just as easily as you could make the argument that Brady could potentially only have 1 SB title, you could just as easily argue if 3 plays went a different way he could have had 6. When you play as many postseason games as Brady and Manning have, the dumb luck tends to even out over time.
Kickers making kicks (or missing them), or other offensive players making plays (or dropping passes) and defenses making stops (or parting like the red sea) is not luck. It is a major part of the reason why teams win or lose. All I am saying is that to give a Quarterback all of the credit or all of the blame for losses is wrong.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:21 AM    (permalink
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You're really bad at detecting sarcasm.
Was it again Ha my bad. Yes it is hard for me to detect that in text.
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Kickers making kicks (or missing them), or other offensive players making plays (or dropping passes) and defenses making stops (or parting like the red sea) is not luck. It is a major part of the reason why teams win or lose. All I am saying is that to give a Quarterback all of the credit or all of the blame for losses is wrong.
I think it's rather obvious that there has been a drastic difference in regular season Peyton Manning and post season Peyton Manning. In my opinion, one of Peyton's best post season games was against the Jets in 2010. He was going up against a great defense with no weapons (Reggie Wayne completely blanked by Darrelle Revis), and he managed the game masterfully. He lost by a point, but he played a great game. He put Vinateria in a spot to win the game and he made the kick. Th defense answered by giving up a last minute drive to end it, but it's the type of game where you give Peyton Manning kudos for the way he played. The Jets were just a better team, and Peyton did everything he could to make that game closer than it should have been, and he they should have won. That was all him.

When he went to his second Super Bowl, Manning was about as good as he's ever been in the postseason. People forget that because of one bad throw, one bad route by Reggie Wayne and one great play by Tracy Porter. The Saints were an incredibly better team with a much better defense. A defense that created those types of game changing plays all year. And, not to mention, Drew Brees was probably a better QB that year. Peyton Manning was the underdog in that game. But he still played well that entire season and post season. He just wasn't the best QB in the NFL that year and he was going up against an unstoppable offense and a QB who was playing lights out.

Then there's games like the 2006 championship game against the Patriots where he led a great comeback and played a great game. His 1 TD to 1 INT and weak passer rating (low 90s) don't show it, but he played a great game. Maybe the best game of his career. And realistically, that was his Super Bowl. Then there's games like 2005 against the Steelers where he has a nice stat line, but he played terrible in a game that wasnt that close, or shouldn't have been that close due to terrible calls.

And then theres the '03 and '04 playoffs where he beat up on terrible defenses before getting waxed by the Patriots. Throwing 4 INTs one game and putting up 3 points in another.

The 41-0 loss wasn't all his fault, but he played like dog **** as well. It wasn't everyone playing like crap with the exception of Peyton. It was Peyton as well. '99 and '00 were his first two playoff games ever. Didn't play good, but wasn't overly terrible for a young QB.

It all turns out to be a mediocre playoff career. And he is anything but a mediocre regular season QB. Peyton Manning just doesn't beat tough defensive teams in the playoffs. He just doesn't do it, and he really doesn't have much of a track record for doing it. It's not always his fault, but there are plays here and pays there that contribute to losses. Like taking a sack at the one yard line on a third and short against the Chargers, which set up a short field for Rivers to tie the game (even win it if they scored a TD). That contributed to the loss. He contributes to wins and losses. He's going to take some blame. And when your splitting hairs between the greatest and most greatest, then your going to find criticism in some shortcoming. The postseason differential for both players is glaring. And Brady has a significant edge. There's no way around it and no way to spin it.
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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I hate when people say "if this play didn't happen or if that play didn't happen"

Hey guess what? They happened. So deal with it.

Hey if Jeff Saturday doesn't fall on a fumble in the endzone Peyton has no rings. See. I can play that game too.

Every single game in the history of football had a couple of what if moments. Saying if this didn't happen or that didn't happen is one of the weakest arguments you can make.

They happened. And guess what? They will happen this weekend, and in the SB too.

It's no different from saying "if this guy made his block" or whatever. It's stupid. Plays happen.

At this point all the criticism of Tom Brady really just is hate. The man went to 5 ******* Super Bowls. 1 win away from his 6th. Had an undefeated regular season. Won 3 SBs. Has all the statistics you can ask for. Has an established history of being clutch. Has SB MVPs. Has won with multiple players and different systems.

What more do you want? The man is one of the top 3 greatest qbs of all time at worst at this point. He's the ****. Plain and simple.

Don't waste my time with tuck rule ********, or Viniateri's kicks. Like Peyton would win a SB without Vinny vs Baltimore?

Tired of this circular argument ********. Enough is enough.

I'm not directing this at anyone in particular. Just tired of it.
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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I wasn't criticising Tom Brady. I was criticising the notion that the only way or even the best way to measure a Quarterback is to simply look at his wins. That is regular season, playoffs and Superbowl. The comments about the kicks weren't criticising Brady (he put his team in a position to win). It was simply to show that there is more to winning a football game than one position so to give that position all the credit for a win and all the blame for a loss is just stupid.
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I hate when people say "if this play didn't happen or if that play didn't happen"

Hey guess what? They happened. So deal with it.

Hey if Jeff Saturday doesn't fall on a fumble in the endzone Peyton has no rings. See. I can play that game too.

Every single game in the history of football had a couple of what if moments. Saying if this didn't happen or that didn't happen is one of the weakest arguments you can make.

They happened. And guess what? They will happen this weekend, and in the SB too.

It's no different from saying "if this guy made his block" or whatever. It's stupid. Plays happen.

At this point all the criticism of Tom Brady really just is hate. The man went to 5 ******* Super Bowls. 1 win away from his 6th. Had an undefeated regular season. Won 3 SBs. Has all the statistics you can ask for. Has an established history of being clutch. Has SB MVPs. Has won with multiple players and different systems.

What more do you want? The man is one of the top 3 greatest qbs of all time at worst at this point. He's the ****. Plain and simple.

Don't waste my time with tuck rule ********, or Viniateri's kicks. Like Peyton would win a SB without Vinny vs Baltimore?

Tired of this circular argument ********. Enough is enough.

I'm not directing this at anyone in particular. Just tired of it.
Couldn't agree more as long as you say top 3, different eras are tough to compare.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:37 PM    (permalink
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I like Tark a ton. One of my favorite old school QBs. But he's not in the conversation.

Steve Young? No. I see lots of people talking about "Super Bowls" in here with Young's name attached... He only played in one! He was an idiot that wouldn't stop running with the ball, and his career ended because of it. His career was riddled with concussions and other injuries because he played like a ******.
You obviously never saw Young play. Couldn't stop running with the ball? Young barely even ran compared to about a dozen QBs playing today. He typically ran about as often as Aaron Rodgers.

And no, his career most certainly did not end because of it. Young's career-ending concussion was the result of a missed blitz pickup by Lawrence Phillips. Aenaes Williams knocked him out cold - Young was in the pocket.

Who cares about Super Bowls? Winning Super Bowls is a team effort. Young did more to win 1 than Terry Bradshaw did to win 4.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:53 PM    (permalink
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My concern with Steve Young being considered among the best quarterbacks of all time is that there are only four or five elite seasons in his career (92, 93, 94, 95?, 98), he had the greatest wide receiver of all time on his team for the entire time (who provided most of his production), and obviously in the final elite year (98), he had Terrell Owens, another of the greatest receivers of all time, along with Jerry Rice. With a guy like Brady, he was winning championships for years with a bunch of receivers no one will remember ten years from now, and ever since he started getting real weapons (Moss, Welker, Gronkowski), he's consistently posted incredible statistics.
Fair enough. He did play with a lot of notable players including Rice the majority of his career. But I don't really fault that against him. I mean, Jaime Martin was a backup with the Rams and coming in for Marc Bugler with Issac Bruce, Tory Holt, and Steven Jackson on the roster...he was still bad. Even if you have a good supporting cast you still need to be able to throw the correct ball at the correct spot at the correct time. Tom Brady didn't have All Pro receivers early in his career, but he did make them better. Personally I'm more of the notion of a quarterback making a receiver more dangerous than the other way around. Who did Drew Brees have at receiver early in his San Diego days? Eric Parker? Old Keenan McCardell? Manning has played the majority of his career with Clark, Harrison, and Wayne.

Young had issues with injuries which screwed him and his team over at times. Regardless, his running and passing ability made him quite dangerous. Especially when he settled down as a passer. And he was elite up until the time he got knocked out in which his career was ended. He didn't fizzle down the stretch like Dan Marino for instance.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:44 AM    (permalink
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This is pretty lame coming from a Giants fan considering if your team didn't have a horse shoe up their ass they'd probably have no SB's to their name. Not one convincing performance in any SB.

Bottom line is that Luck is part of the game. Skill over the long run trumps luck but since these guys don't have hundreds of playoff games you can't just rely on playoff w's and SB wins to determine a QB's legacy. Giving a QB a proper title is more appropriate but shouldn't undermine their worth.

People always point to certain QB's and use SB wins as a huge part of the measuring stick when determining the best QB ever but that's just not a correct way to classify QB's.

Marino is undoubtedly better than Eli or Ben but he never won a SB. He's also never had a D in the same universe as those guys.

Bottom line, a QB can only do so much and football is so dependent on so many variables that lying all the success or failures on a QB's feet is Lazy and inaccurate.

Manning is one of the best QB's of all time. Give him Bradshaws teams and He's the best ever. Give him Marino's and he's great but he just can't get it done.

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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I hate when people say "if this play didn't happen or if that play didn't happen"

Hey guess what? They happened. So deal with it.

Hey if Jeff Saturday doesn't fall on a fumble in the endzone Peyton has no rings. See. I can play that game too.

Every single game in the history of football had a couple of what if moments. Saying if this didn't happen or that didn't happen is one of the weakest arguments you can make.

They happened. And guess what? They will happen this weekend, and in the SB too.

It's no different from saying "if this guy made his block" or whatever. It's stupid. Plays happen.

At this point all the criticism of Tom Brady really just is hate. The man went to 5 ******* Super Bowls. 1 win away from his 6th. Had an undefeated regular season. Won 3 SBs. Has all the statistics you can ask for. Has an established history of being clutch. Has SB MVPs. Has won with multiple players and different systems.

What more do you want? The man is one of the top 3 greatest qbs of all time at worst at this point. He's the ****. Plain and simple.

Don't waste my time with tuck rule ********, or Viniateri's kicks. Like Peyton would win a SB without Vinny vs Baltimore?

Tired of this circular argument ********. Enough is enough.

I'm not directing this at anyone in particular. Just tired of it.
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:30 AM    (permalink
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This is pretty lame coming from a Giants fan considering if your team didn't have a horse shoe up their ass they'd probably have no SB's to their name. Not one convincing performance in any SB.

Bottom line is that Luck is part of the game. Skill over the long run trumps luck but since these guys don't have hundreds of playoff games you can't just rely on playoff w's and SB wins to determine a QB's legacy. Giving a QB a proper title is more appropriate but shouldn't undermine their worth.

People always point to certain QB's and use SB wins as a huge part of the measuring stick when determining the best QB ever but that's just not a correct way to classify QB's.

Marino is undoubtedly better than Eli or Ben but he never won a SB. He's also never had a D in the same universe as those guys.

Bottom line, a QB can only do so much and football is so dependent on so many variables that lying all the success or failures on a QB's feet is Lazy and inaccurate.

Manning is one of the best QB's of all time. Give him Bradshaws teams and He's the best ever. Give him Marino's and he's great but he just can't get it done.
Peyton Manning should have been asking for less money so the Colts could get more help for him. Like building a great defense or great offensive line. He made his own bed, just as Polian did. You can't expect late round draft picks to develop all at the same time and turn into to the steel curtain defenses of the 70s. Or for those late round offensive linemen to develop into All-Pro caliber players. That's the type of team the Colts built. It was their intentions to pay four or five players top dollar (The QB, DE, WR, RB, SS). And then fill the rest of the team with interchangeable scrub players.

They built a bend-but-don't-break defense. They built a soft offense predicated on passing in warm conditions. They built teams that were undersized and struggled against the run. They built offensive lines that couldn't get any push with man-on-man blocking. It's exactly the type of team they wanted. You can't give Manning a pass for that, or make excuses. Or say, "Well, if Manning had a better defense..." No, those defenses were exactly the type of defenses they wanted. They intentionally built those types of defenses and relied on mediocre, scheme defendant players. They spent their money on the QB, the skill position players and then a couple pass rushers. That's it. That's there team.

There is a very good reson why Manning couldn't rely on his defense to get a tough win in the playoffs. Or turn around and give the ball to the RB 30 times to take pressure off him when going against a great pass defense. They didn't have the offensive line for it. So when the best teams played playoff football, the Colts got beat up and beat down. They built dome specific teams. Regular season teams that can have great success against mediocre / bad teams. But those teams don't make the championship game or Super Bowl. And this past season the Broncos turned into the same exact team as the Colts have been for the last 15 years. Relying on Peyton Manning and his wide receives. It's not a formula for success, not in the playoffs anyway.

You are left with comparing facts.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:54 PM    (permalink
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Peyton Manning should have been asking for less money so the Colts could get more help for him. Like building a great defense or great offensive line. He made his own bed, just as Polian did. You can't expect late round draft picks to develop all at the same time and turn into to the steel curtain defenses of the 70s. Or for those late round offensive linemen to develop into All-Pro caliber players. That's the type of team the Colts built. It was their intentions to pay four or five players top dollar (The QB, DE, WR, RB, SS). And then fill the rest of the team with interchangeable scrub players.

They built a bend-but-don't-break defense. They built a soft offense predicated on passing in warm conditions. They built teams that were undersized and struggled against the run. They built offensive lines that couldn't get any push with man-on-man blocking. It's exactly the type of team they wanted. You can't give Manning a pass for that, or make excuses. Or say, "Well, if Manning had a better defense..." No, those defenses were exactly the type of defenses they wanted. They intentionally built those types of defenses and relied on mediocre, scheme defendant players. They spent their money on the QB, the skill position players and then a couple pass rushers. That's it. That's there team.

There is a very good reson why Manning couldn't rely on his defense to get a tough win in the playoffs. Or turn around and give the ball to the RB 30 times to take pressure off him when going against a great pass defense. They didn't have the offensive line for it. So when the best teams played playoff football, the Colts got beat up and beat down. They built dome specific teams. Regular season teams that can have great success against mediocre / bad teams. But those teams don't make the championship game or Super Bowl. And this past season the Broncos turned into the same exact team as the Colts have been for the last 15 years. Relying on Peyton Manning and his wide receives. It's not a formula for success, not in the playoffs anyway.

You are left with comparing facts.
Why would he ask for less money? If you're making that argument, why not go for the extreme point and say he should just accept the league minimum. The colt's team the last few years have been just awful at drafting and he's the only reason they were even in the playoffs. Let's look at their draft from 2007-2011 and see if anyone could have won with those scrubs other than Manning.

2007 Draft

Round Pick # Overall Name Position College
1 32 32 Anthony Gonzalez Wide Receiver Ohio State
2 10 42 Tony Ugoh Offensive Tackle Arkansas
3 31 95 Daymeion Hughes Cornerback California
3 34 98 Quinn Pitcock Defensive Tackle Ohio State
4 32 131 Brannon Condren Safety Troy
4 37 136 Clint Session Linebacker Pittsburgh
5 32 169 Roy Hall Wide Receiver Ohio State
5 36 173 Michael Coe Cornerback Alabama State
7 32 232 Keyunta Dawson Linebacker Texas Tech
2008 Draft

Round Pick # Overall Name Position College
2 28 59 Mike Pollak Center Arizona State
3 30 93 Philip Wheeler Linebacker Georgia Tech
4 28 127 Jacob Tamme Tight End Kentucky
5 26 161 Marcus Howard Linebacker Georgia
6 30 196 Tom Santi Tight End Virginia
6 35 201 Steve Justice Center Wake Forest
6 36 202 Mike Hart Running Back Michigan
6 39 205 Pierre Garcon Wide Receiver Mount Union
7 29 236 Jamey Richard Center Buffalo
2009 Draft

Round Pick # Overall Name Position College
1 27 27 Donald Brown Running Back Connecticut
2 24 56 Fili Moala Defensive Tackle USC
3 28 92 Jerraud Powers Cornerback Auburn
4 27 127 Austin Collie Wide Receiver Brigham Young
4 36 136 Terrance Taylor Defensive Tackle Michigan
6 28 201 Curtis Painter Quarterback Purdue
7 13 222 Pat McAfee Kicker West Virginia
7 27 236 Jaimie Thomas Guard Maryland
2010 Draft

Round Pick # Overall Name Position College
1 31 31 Jerry Hughes Defensive End TCU
2 31 63 Pat Angerer Linebacker Iowa
3 30 94 Kevin Thomas Cornerback USC
4 31 129 Jacques McClendon Guard Tennessee
5 31 162 Brody Eldridge Tight End Oklahoma
7 31 238 Ricardo Mathews Defensive End Cincinnati
7 33 240 Kavell Conner Linebacker Clemson
7 39 246 Ray Fisher Cornerback Indiana

2011 Draft

Round Pick # Overall Name Position College
1 22 22 Anthony Castonzo Offensive Tackle Boston College
2 17 49 Benjamin Ijalana Offensive Tackle Villanova
3 23 87 Drake Nevis Defensive Tackle Louisiana State
4 22 119 Delone Carter Running Back Syracuse
6 23 188 Chris Rucker Cornerback Michigan State

It wouldn't matter if he took less money because the Colt's had an inept front office. That money would have been spent on drafting or sign worthless players. And please don't act like Tom Brady isn't getting paid. He always has a great team around him because they have a terrific front office that can deal with the cap well and can trade. Not because he took less money.
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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Tom Brady is still very Manning like in the "offensive" Patriots era.
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