Final Poll - Rookie of the Year 2012-2013

[Caulibflower]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

And what levity do folks put on injuries?

I'm not sure what you're asking. RGIII's injuries count against him in my eyes, but that's not really a question of "levity."

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

This is just ********. Indy had a run game but they chose not to use it properly. They have a former first round pick and a guy who given 15+ carries per game had the same YPC 4.6, as Morris.

And what levity do folks put on injuries?

Yes lets take a 7 game sample size and extrapolate that over an entire season and he's just like Morris. Never mind the fact that if somebody isn't picking up yards they're unlikely to keep getting the ball, as was the case with Ballard multiple times this season. All he needed was more carries in the other games and his YPA would have exploded!

[G Mobile]

A

Originally Posted by jsagan77

This is just ********. Indy had a run game but they chose not to use it properly. They have a former first round pick and a guy who given 15+ carries per game had the same YPC 4.6, as Morris.

And what levity do folks put on injuries?

Even if used perfectly the Indy run game doesn't touch Washington's, not even including Griffins running ability factored in. Both of Indy's top 2 RBs didn't even break 4 yards a carry on the season. Morris is a significant amount better than Ballard or Donald Brown. Their original draft spot doesn't matter; no one would spend a 1st on Donald Brown now.

[xjxdarren]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-rookie-season

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by Caulibflower

I'm not sure what you're asking. RGIII's injuries count against him in my eyes, but that's not really a question of "levity."

What do you mean "they count against him"?
You mean going forward, being able to count on him, staying healthy?
Sure, I see that.

But it shouldn't be counted against him for the ROY award.
Just count what he DID, produce, accomplish, while out there.

Guys like you seem to look at a lot of other stuff other than what they did on the field.

Stats show much of it, but just watch the games from start to finish and forget where they were drafted, their height, scouts opinions, whatever, etc.

I wish we could see the votes from defensive players who played against 2 or 3 of these teams this season, especially the last 2/3rd of the year. I'd be very curious who they'd vote for.

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by Caulibflower

I'm not sure what you're asking. RGIII's injuries count against him in my eyes, but that's not really a question of "levity."

The point is that the skins were the 2nd most injured team this year (and that doesn't include suspensions). Take that into consideration and the cap penalty and you can easily conclude that RG3 had the least help of any of the others and was crushing against Seattle until he pulled up limp in the 1st quarter.

Taking in the entire equation into consideration what RG3 has done for a team who has been a hott mess for two decades in much more impressive IMHO than the other two guys.

[jsagan77]

Well if it's any indication I've never seen a D gush over an opposing QB like the Giants DL seemed to.

Originally Posted by J-Mike88

What do you mean "they count against him"?
You mean going forward, being able to count on him, staying healthy?
Sure, I see that.

But it shouldn't be counted against him for the ROY award.
Just count what he DID, produce, accomplish, while out there.

Guys like you seem to look at a lot of other stuff other than what they did on the field.

Stats show much of it, but just watch the games from start to finish and forget where they were drafted, their height, scouts opinions, whatever, etc.

I wish we could see the votes from defensive players who played against 2 or 3 of these teams this season, especially the last 2/3rd of the year. I'd be very curious who they'd vote for.

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by G Mobile

A

Even if used perfectly the Indy run game doesn't touch Washington's, not even including Griffins running ability factored in. Both of Indy's top 2 RBs didn't even break 4 yards a carry on the season. Morris is a significant amount better than Ballard or Donald Brown. Their original draft spot doesn't matter; no one would spend a 1st on Donald Brown now.

If used perfectly and disregarding RG3's runs, Indy's run game isn't that far off. I've already proven that but we'll go with your subjective analysis because facts are stupid when they don't favor Luck.

[TitansCJftw]

its funny how the crazies come out at the same exact time see hypocrisy or whatever the **** his name is reappearing at the same time just like last night where taber and whoever the hell it was came up again this is an epic troll job to what is now 3 different names as far as i can tell probably more, awesome

[RCAChainGang]

Originally Posted by TitansCJftw

its funny how the crazies come out at the same exact time see hypocrisy or whatever the **** his name is reappearing at the same time just like last night where taber and whoever the hell it was came up again this is an epic troll job to what is now 3 different names as far as i can tell probably more, awesome

Yep! You can get around an IP address. I don't understand why someone thinks they need multiple accounts.

[FUNBUNCHER]

See I don't mind that Luck as a rookie only completed 54% of his passes, had 18 INTs and 25(?) turnovers or that he had a worse passer rating than Blaine Gabbert.

For a rookie, Luck had an outstanding year.
But when there are two other rookie QBs who've been even more impressive IMO this season, those negative stats for Luck become a factor.

When you're trying to find the separation between Luck/Griffin/Wilson, all three who led their teams to the playoffs, it has to come down to efficiency and offensive production.

For people who say Luck was asked to 'do more', really??
Was it harder for Luck to win 11 games playing in the AFCS than it was for either RG3 to win 10 games playing in the NFCE, or Wilson to win 11 games in the NFCW??

Luck was asked to pass a lot, but I don't believe his task this season, winning games, was even close to the difficulty level either Wilson or RG3 faced.

Now bleacherreport posts an article that stats don't matter when evaluating Luck as OROTY. Nonsense.

Luck supporters should just leave stats out of the argument in favor of Luck, other than total passing yards and his 11 wins. That's enough.

[niel89]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

If used perfectly and disregarding RG3's runs, Indy's run game isn't that far off. I've already proven that but we'll go with your subjective analysis because facts are stupid when they don't favor Luck.

In what world are Donald Brown and/or Vick Ballard even close to Morris? Neither guy even broke 4 yards a carry. Morris ran for 4.8. It's not even a comparison. Washington had a better run game any way you cut it.

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by niel89

In what world are Donald Brown and/or Vick Ballard even close to Morris? Neither guy even broke 4 yards a carry. Morris ran for 4.8. It's not even a comparison. Washington had a better run game any way you cut it.

Prior to the last game of the season Ballard and Almo had the same ypc (4.64) when given the ball 15+. I guess that context isn't enough though.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

Prior to the last game of the season Ballard and Almo had the same ypc (4.64) when given the ball 15+. I guess that context isn't enough though.

No because again, if you're running the ball well and having success you're going to get more carries. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp.

[Timbathia]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

For people who say Luck was asked to 'do more', really??
Was it harder for Luck to win 11 games playing in the AFCS than it was for either RG3 to win 10 games playing in the NFCE, or Wilson to win 11 games in the NFCW??

Why do people keep saying that RG3 won 10 games, when he in fact won 8?

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by Timbathia

Why do people keep saying that RG3 won 10 games, when he in fact won 8?

RG3 got the SKins into the playoffs. The Skins won 10 games this season.
You can get really specific and say he only finished 13 games, fine.

RG3/Skins won 10 games.

[Bengalsrocket]

This debate could go on forever. If Luck had thrown the ball about 200 times less, and all of his statistics were scaled down to reflect that change (both the positive and the negative ones) then it would be nothing special. However, the team did lean on him for 700+ drop backs, which is extremely unique.

This is a rare case for a rookie, and it will be harder to judge because of that. People who don't seem to be grasping this will inevitably believe the Luck supporters are stupid. But there is some validity to their argument.

I don't think Indianapolis needed Luck more than Washington needed RG3. Both teams were pretty garbage the year before. But they got the job done in different ways, so people are having trouble comparing the two.

Edit: I wanted to add that I'm bitter that Dalton didn't get any value last year for his wins and Newton ran away with the award because of his statistics. Therefore, I don't think Luck should win because this is a stats award. (also I'm bitter, did I mention that?)

[Timbathia]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

RG3 got the SKins into the playoffs. The Skins won 10 games this season.
You can get really specific and say he only finished 13 games, fine.

RG3/Skins won 10 games.

Of course the skins won 10 games. They had a great year. But RG3 didnt play at all in one win, and left the field injured with an 8 point deficit in another. This means you cant use the "RG3 only had 2 less wins than Luck so it isnt a significant stat" argument. It was 4 more wins, or half RG3s total, which makes it more significant.

I am not saying RG3 should lose because of this, just that it is a disingenuous argument.

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

No because again, if you're running the ball well and having success you're going to get more carries. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp.

Or it's a coaching failure to give the ball to a lesser back in favor of an obviously more talented runner as well as abandon the run in favor of throwing (if not forced).

[bigbluedefense]

RGIII's performances at the end of the season should be held against him. He basically threw for 50% the last 3 games of the season, and threw 20 or less times each game, yet still won bc of their ground game.

If anything, the impact that Cousins had in RGIII's absence, coupled with Morris's exceptional play hinders his impact.

I'd give it to Russell Wilson if I could vote now. Wilson is a beast.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Grif threw for 57% completions on 26 attempts for 242 yds and a TD before he went out of the game late.
Against Philly he completed 67% of his passes on 24 attempts, 198yds, 2 TDs and a pick.
It was the final Dallas game for he NFCE where Grif only completed half of his 18 attempts, but he still ran for a TD.

It was Luck who completed less than 50% of his passes the last three games of the season, not Grif.

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Grif threw for 57% completions on 26 attempts for 242 yds and a TD before he went out of the game late.
Against Philly he completed 67% of his passes on 24 attempts, 198yds, 2 TDs and a pick.
It was the final Dallas game for he NFCE where Grif only completed half of his 18 attempts, but he still ran for a TD.

It was Luck who completed less than 50% of his passes the last three games of the season, not Grif.

Well if it's Luck then it's obviously okay to pass for less than 50%
Lol, get out of here with your facts man.

[OzTitan]

I haven't watched all three extensively but in my opinion Luck is playing a style of QB that will leave him better prepared going forward. It's like he was running the offense that RG3 and Wilson might have to start running in year 2 or 3 once defenses start to counter some of the things they are doing - i.e. drop back, find the open guy amongst multiple reads, and fire accurately.

Not that either of the other guys weren't also doing that, the perception I got is just that Luck seems like he's actually got the head start when it comes to learning what it takes to be a starting QB 10 years from now, at the expense of extracting short term performance through gimmicks etc. Whether or not that should matter in OROY is debatable - but it could offer some context for the stat comparisons perhaps.

[jsagan77]

If you haven't watched players then your opinion is nothing less than a guess which is about 90% of the dross here anyway I guess.

[Bucs_Rule]

Before RG3 got injured I would have said him, now its very close. Instead of trying to choose one I'll count the playoffs in my vote, all three QBs went so can't say its unfair.