NBA Discussion Thread - Page 3167

bigbluedefense · 01-18-2013, 10:13 AM

Great coaches adjust to their talent. D'Antoni won't adjust at all. And his management of the roster is awful. Not to mention his inability to coach defense.

He has always been an awful coach. He had some success in Phoenix with a loaded team but underachieved with it. Then has been a poor to mediocre coach at best since those days.

Zycho32 · 01-18-2013, 12:53 PM

Here's a good question.

If you took all the good-to-great coaches in NBA History, would you have enough to run a full 30-team league?

Rob S · 01-18-2013, 12:57 PM

Good to great? Absolutely. Great, no.

scottyboy · 01-18-2013, 01:22 PM

yeah, I mean you've got 3 greats right now in Doc, Pop and Carlisle. And I feel like I'm forgetting someone else. Plus PJ is the best coach ever. Plus Phil. So there's 5.

edit: College coaches would be so much more fun

Rob S · 01-18-2013, 01:33 PM

There are a bunch of coaches you could put in the good category right now. At least 10 probably.

scottyboy · 01-18-2013, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob S

There are a bunch of coaches you could put in the good category right now. At least 10 probably.

I'd say definitely Thibs.

I wanna say JVG because I love him.

Sloan was pretty kewl, too.

There's "good" and then more "very good".

I wonder how our coaches power rankings would look/differ

Rob S · 01-18-2013, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboy

I'd say definitely Thibs.

I wanna say JVG because I love him.

Sloan was pretty kewl, too.

There's "good" and then more "very good".

I wonder how our coaches power rankings would look/differ

I'll do one after work when I'm not on my phone. Vogel is a boss though.

Docta · 01-18-2013, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboy

yeah, I mean you've got 3 greats right now in Doc, Pop and Carlisle. And I feel like I'm forgetting someone else. Plus PJ is the best coach ever. Plus Phil. So there's 5.

edit: College coaches would be so much more fun

Wouldn't put Doc in there. Before they got The Big Three, the team was pretty terrible. Who knows how much of that success was due to Thibs being there too.

dabears10 · 01-18-2013, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Docta

Wouldn't put Doc in there. Before they got The Big Three, the team was pretty terrible. Who knows how much of that success was due to Thibs being there too.

Pop is the only active coach that should be considered Great. Everyone else is good with the chance to be great.

bigbluedefense · 01-18-2013, 02:05 PM

I think Doc is a great coach. Newsflash, you need good players to be a successful team. This isn't earth shattering stuff.

Doc outcoached Phil Jackson in the NBA Finals, arguably twice. Doc is a great coach.

scottyboy · 01-18-2013, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Docta

Wouldn't put Doc in there. Before they got The Big Three, the team was pretty terrible. Who knows how much of that success was due to Thibs being there too.

You're right. he's not winning right now with an ancient KG, no Ray Allen and a PG who can't shoot (not a knock on Rondo, just saying he's not a D-Rose who can take over on the scoring end)

And really? "How much is due to Thibs?" that's gotta be a joke. What's that even mean? We're talking head coaches. How are you gonna determine what and what isn't because of the coaches? That's absurd. Any good team that's winning sans the Heat and maybe Thunder are a lot because of the coach. Not knocks on Brooks or Spo (neither are "good" coaches but not bad either) but anyone could win with the talent both of them have

Docta · 01-18-2013, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I think Doc is a great coach. Newsflash, you need good players to be a successful team. This isn't earth shattering stuff.

Doc outcoached Phil Jackson in the NBA Finals, arguably twice. Doc is a great coach.

Had Pierce, Jefferson, and Rondo on 1 team, and he had the worst season of his career. In the same year, the Cavs made it to the Finals with LeBron...Larry Hughes, Big Z, and Gooden.

Rob S · 01-18-2013, 02:16 PM

I don't think doc is an all timer/elite coach. I definitely think he can be described as great though.

bigbluedefense · 01-18-2013, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Docta

Had Pierce, Jefferson, and Rondo on 1 team, and he had the worst season of his career. In the same year, the Cavs made it to the Finals with LeBron...Larry Hughes, Big Z, and Gooden.

Rondo wasn't nearly the player then that he is now, or during their championship years.

Jefferson. Whoopidy damn doo.

Look what he has now. A 50 year old Garnett, a 45 year old fat Pierce, and Rondo and he makes it work. The guy is a good coach. When he has talent he wins. What else do you want?

Basketball isn't football. You can't win with smoke and mirrors. And who gives a **** what Mike Brown did with LeBron? How does that help your argument? He took the best player on the planet and took him to the finals. He's supposed to do that ****.

Docta · 01-18-2013, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboy

You're right. he's not winning right now with an ancient KG, no Ray Allen and a PG who can't shoot (not a knock on Rondo, just saying he's not a D-Rose who can take over on the scoring end)

And really? "How much is due to Thibs?" that's gotta be a joke. What's that even mean? We're talking head coaches. How are you gonna determine what and what isn't because of the coaches? That's absurd. Any good team that's winning sans the Heat and maybe Thunder are a lot because of the coach. Not knocks on Brooks or Spo (neither are "good" coaches but not bad either) but anyone could win with the talent both of them have

Didn't even bring up this year. But if it was his decision to bring Jeff Green in and pay him that much, then this year was a disaster.

You watch football, but you still don't think assistant coaches matter? It's not a coincidence that the Bulls suddenly became one of the top defensive teams in the league once Thibs got there. Yeah, the Celtics were still good on D even after he left, but he was there long enough for Doc & co. to memorize the system.

dabears10 · 01-18-2013, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Docta

Had Pierce, Jefferson, and Rondo on 1 team, and he had the worst season of his career. In the same year, the Cavs made it to the Finals with LeBron...Larry Hughes, Big Z, and Gooden.

Pierce played 46 games, Jeffeson's 3rd year, and Rondo was a rookie. PS Rondo started only 25 games. They were not a juggernaut.

It seems most of the time they started Delonte West, Ryan Gomes, Pierce, Jefferson, Perkins. That is not a murderers row.

Rob S · 01-18-2013, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Docta

Didn't even bring up this year. But if it was his decision to bring Jeff Green in and pay him that much, then this year was a disaster.

You watch football, but you still don't think assistant coaches matter? It's not a coincidence that the Bulls suddenly became one of the top defensive teams in the league once Thibs got there. Yeah, the Celtics were still good on D even after he left, but he was there long enough for Doc & co. to memorize the system.

So you're saying that Doc has that defensive knowledge/system in his arsenal. That's all that matters, everyone learns everything they know from somewhere. Doc is a great coach.

pierce2walker · 01-18-2013, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Docta

Had Pierce, Jefferson, and Rondo on 1 team, and he had the worst season of his career. In the same year, the Cavs made it to the Finals with LeBron...Larry Hughes, Big Z, and Gooden.

So you're counting a raw, 19 year old Al Jefferson and a rookie Rondo who was very limited in a lot of aspects. This is a team that Sebastian Telfair and Wally Szczerbiak got significant PT on. And then you are comparing that to a team with LeBron on it...

soybean · 01-18-2013, 02:38 PM

This play is one caveat or example of why Doc is a good coach. Perfectly drawn up.

Also if Avery Bradley was healthy, they make the NBA finals with a severely overmatched team.

scottyboy · 01-18-2013, 02:44 PM

yeah docta, you haven't really made any sense in your points against Doc...

Docta · 01-18-2013, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Rondo wasn't nearly the player then that he is now, or during their championship years.

Jefferson. Whoopidy damn doo.

Look what he has now. A 50 year old Garnett, a 45 year old fat Pierce, and Rondo and he makes it work. The guy is a good coach. When he has talent he wins. What else do you want?

Basketball isn't football. You can't win with smoke and mirrors. And who gives a **** what Mike Brown did with LeBron? How does that help your argument? He took the best player on the planet and took him to the finals. He's supposed to do that ****.

I didn't say he wasn't a great coach. Just wouldn't put him up in the same tier with Carlisle and Pop. Mike D'Antoni wins when he has the right personnel. What else do you want? He has a 50 year old Kobe, and Dwight with a bad back.

It wasn't even close to one of LeBron's best seasons. His stats improved after the '07 season.

EDIT: It was Rondo's rookie season, and they got KG + Ray the next season. Either he improved greatly in one off-season, or Doc was holding him back for being a rookie. He also barely played Tony Allen, and I doubt he wasn't as good on defense as he is now. It wasn't until he got to Memphis that he got significant PT.

dabears10 · 01-18-2013, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Docta

I didn't say he wasn't a great coach. Just wouldn't put him up in the same tier with Carlisle and Pop. Mike D'Antoni wins when he has the right personnel. What else do you want? He has a 50 year old Kobe, and Dwight with a bad back.

It wasn't even close to one of LeBron's best seasons. His stats improved after the '07 season.

Why does Carlisle make it? He has made 1 NBA finals appearance. 1.