The Coaching Change Thread

[Seamus2602]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

That may be true, but it doesn't help the perpetually overlooked black candidate. All the Rooney Rule does is give him a chance to be heard. It doesn't ensure anything else.

But there is nothing helping the perpetually overlooked white candidate either.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by Seamus2602

It happens the other way round as well. How did Jim Caldwell get a Head Coaching position before his boss Tom Moore did?

Because Tom Moore is over 70 years old. Race isn't the only thing people discriminate on.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by Seamus2602

But there is nothing helping the perpetually overlooked white candidate either.

It's not apples to apples, and if you think it is, you're naive too.

[Seamus2602]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

You also have to understand that most of you are in your teens and 20s, and most NFL owners are rich old men, growing up at a time when most black people still couldn't vote or drink from the same fountain as a white person. They were raised in different times, and subconscious attitudes and stereotypes about people don't go away overnight.

They are also owners in one of the most pioneering industries in the United States, owners of companies that shattered glass ceilings for black people when most other industries where still turning them away.

[bigbluedefense]

I just think it's glaringly obvious that teams are more willing to take a chance on white coaches with an unproven track record vs a minority coach with an unproven track record.

For some reason, it's acceptable to take that chance, but if the guy is a minority, it's almost like he has to be a no brainer candidate to get his chance to coach or else he has to wait.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by Seamus2602

They are also owners in one of the most pioneering industries in the United States, owners of companies that shattered glass ceilings for black people when most other industries where still turning them away.

Black athletes were finally given opportunities because the ability to play a sport is undeniable. Things more cerebral are more subjective and easier to discriminate on. Jackie Robinson can hit a baseball, and there's not nearly as much subjectivity there.

[Seamus2602]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Because Tom Moore is over 70 years old. Race isn't the only thing people discriminate on.

So why not also impose a rule saying people have to interview an old age pensioner as well? Should there not being a rule that says you have to interview a woman, an old person, a foreigner, a midget etc etc? Where do we draw the line?

[Jughead10]

What legitimate black candidates were there this year? Besides Lovie getting another job.

There were more black GM candidates than coaching in my opinion. Does the Rooney rule apply to GM and personnel positions?

[Hurricanes25]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I think it's a big deal. There still is a prejudice in hiring. I'm not saying that it's intentional, but the results are obvious.

Why is it that for a black coach to get a chance, he has to be a slam dunk candidate? I understand teams took chances on some of these hires, but why can't those same chances be applied to minority candidates?

And how the hell is Marc Ross still not a GM? In the Giants team forum we always joke around about how he'll have to wait a couple of years bc he's black. And unfortunately those jokes are coming true. How the **** does Mike Lombardi become a GM before Marc Ross?

How does Gettleman, who worked UNDER Ross, get the job before him?

How does Phil Emery get a GM position before Ross? It's amazing. It's complete ********.

Ross did withdraw his name from consideration from the Jets job, a job he probably could have gotten if he wanted it. (I certainly don't blame him for not wanting the job). Now I'm not saying there isn't prejudice but Ross is being choosy. Again, I don't blame him for that.

[SuperPacker]

Originally Posted by Jughead10

What legitimate black candidates were there this year? Besides Lovie getting another job.

There were more black GM candidates than coaching in my opinion. Does the Rooney rule apply to GM and personnel positions?

Ray Horton?

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by Seamus2602

So why not also impose a rule saying people have to interview an old age pensioner as well? Should there not being a rule that says you have to interview a woman, an old person, a foreigner, a midget etc etc? Where do we draw the line?

I don't know. But simply shrugging your shoulders or acting like racism doesn't exist anymore is an equally unsatisfying option.

I don't mind if people don't like the Rooney Rule. What I do object to is the supposition that there wasn't/isn't a problem of racial discrimination.

Also, I'm totally cool with a rule that requires everyone interview a midget, though I think they prefer to be called little people.

[Seamus2602]

Originally Posted by SuperPacker

Ray Horton?

Horton was considered by at least Arizona (and when he didn't get it through a complete hissy fit).

[Jughead10]

I love the Rooney rule and I think it serves it's purpose. But this year, I don't think there were many good candidates of any color. This is also a copy cat league. And everyone seemed to want to grab college coaches this year after the success of Carrol and Harbaugh. And unfortunately the NCAA is really where the Rooney rule could be used.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by Jughead10

What legitimate black candidates were there this year? Besides Lovie getting another job.

There were more black GM candidates than coaching in my opinion. Does the Rooney rule apply to GM and personnel positions?

It does not.

And unfortunately, one has to think about the fans in a case like this. It's even more obvious in college football, but certain parts of football fanbases might not be ok with a black head coach.

If you think the NFL is bad, take a look at SEC football where there have been 3 black head coaches in 80 years and only one currently.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Seamus2602

They are also owners in one of the most pioneering industries in the United States, owners of companies that shattered glass ceilings for black people when most other industries where still turning them away.

Really dude? You know some of these owners were the owners during the whole secret NFL agreement to ban blacks from being on their teams?

Like bf51 said, a lot of you guys are still in your teens or early 20s, and haven't been exposed to the corporate world.

The ball game isn't equal. Ideally we wish it was, but it's not.

If the NFL was treated like any other corporation, they'd get sued up the ass by now. They know it's a problem. Why do you think they're trying to address it? Just bc? They know some smart ass lawyer is a year away from filing a lawsuit against the league.

[Seamus2602]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

I don't know. But simply shrugging your shoulders or acting like racism doesn't exist anymore is an equally unsatisfying option.

I don't mind if people don't like the Rooney Rule. What I do object to is the supposition that there wasn't/isn't a problem of racial discrimination.

Also, I'm totally cool with a rule that requires everyone interview a midget, though I think they prefer to be called little people.

I have never seen anything to suggest that in the modern NFL that there is a problem with racial discrimination. I don't like quotas or affirmative action. Should more be done to encourage owners to interview candidates who may not always get the opportunities? Yes. Should that be limited only to race? No.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by Jughead10

I love the Rooney rule and I think it serves it's purpose. But this year, I don't think there were many good candidates of any color.

I fully agree with all of this. I honestly didn't know who Ray Horton was two years ago (though I didn't know who Ray Bradley was either I'm sure). Part of the success of the Rooney Rule is that there isn't as large of a backlog of overly-qualified black coaches waiting for opportunities.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by Seamus2602

I have never seen anything to suggest that in the modern NFL that there is a problem with racial discrimination.

Well if you don't see it....

[WCH]

Originally Posted by Jughead10

I love the Rooney rule and I think it serves it's purpose. But this year, I don't think there were many good candidates of any color. This is also a copy cat league. And everyone seemed to want to grab college coaches this year after the success of Carrol and Harbaugh. And unfortunately the NCAA is really where the Rooney rule could be used.

In the NFL, winning is the most important thing. In college, pleasing the boosters is the most important thing. Old white men in the south don't want to see their school having a black head coach.

[Seamus2602]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Really dude? You know some of these owners were the owners during the whole secret NFL agreement to ban blacks from being on their teams?

Like bf51 said, a lot of you guys are still in your teens or early 20s, and haven't been exposed to the corporate world.

The ball game isn't equal. Ideally we wish it was, but it's not.

If the NFL was treated like any other corporation, they'd get sued up the ass by now. They know it's a problem. Why do you think they're trying to address it? Just bc? They know some smart ass lawyer is a year away from filing a lawsuit against the league.

Some where. I think the Redskins were really bad for it. But many were not and there is nothing to suggest that any are now.

[Seamus2602]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Well if you don't see it....

No I don't see it. Where is there racial discrimination?

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Really dude? You know some of these owners were the owners during the whole secret NFL agreement to ban blacks from being on their teams?

Like bf51 said, a lot of you guys are still in your teens or early 20s, and haven't been exposed to the corporate world.

The ball game isn't equal. Ideally we wish it was, but it's not.

If the NFL was treated like any other corporation, they'd get sued up the ass by now. They know it's a problem. Why do you think they're trying to address it? Just bc? They know some smart ass lawyer is a year away from filing a lawsuit against the league.

If that smart ass lawyer really wants to ruffle even more feathers, he should take a look at the gender disparity in front offices as well. How many women are in any kind of positions of power anywhere in an average NFL organization?

[Seamus2602]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

If that smart ass lawyer really wants to ruffle even more feathers, he should take a look at the gender disparity in front offices as well. How many women are in any kind of positions of power anywhere in an average NFL organization?

Or if we are doing that how many white running backs are there? Should there being a rule where every team has to tryout a white running back for their starting job every year?

[SuperPacker]

Originally Posted by Seamus2602

Or if we are doing that how many white running backs are there? Should there being a rule where every team has to tryout a white running back for their starting job every year?

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by Seamus2602

No I don't see it. Where is there racial discrimination?

6 minority NFL head coaches in the 83 years of NFL history when the Rooney Rule was implemented in 2003 (only 1 before 1989, a hispanic). But I'm sure those were the only six men in 83 years who knew how to coach.