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Old 01-18-2013, 02:10 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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Originally Posted by Menardo75 View Post
Mayock is usually spot on with his analysis of DB's which is to be expected since that was the position he played. He is routinely far off base however with his offensive and defensive line rankings which bugs me. I think if you're looking at the entire body of work for all positions Kiper is still the best.
I like Kiper but Mayock is better. Mayock isn't perfect by any means but his contacts are superb and he sticks to his guns when he really likes a player.
The only areas where I think you can question him is that he likes certain types of players at certain positions.
i.e. TE's - he likes TE's who can block and doesn't always get enamored by the TE's who are just good pass receivers.
i.e. He prefers the 4-3 defense and is most comfortable in analyzing 4-3 defenders.
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:15 PM    (permalink
CrossOfDeath
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Dude has been out of touch with the league for years now. Anyone remember when he was about to pop a blood vessel in his head because teams kept passing on Mike Williams who he had given the highest grade he had ever given?
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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Kiper isn't great or anything, but all the mockers do the things he does. If you simply post the most accurate, obvious mock you can think of this early in the process, it doesn't give you a lot to offer your readers through the rest of the process. Its just something to have a little fun with, some draft stuff to read early on.

I do think Mcshay and Mayock are better, but its a slight margin, not a huge one. Kiper gets a lot right too.

As for the specific complaints, it could go either way. Allen is my #1 reciever right now, but I love Hopkins, Woods played hurt last year and Patterson and Huter are both intriguing raw talents. Allen also didn't produce a ton last year(though this is probably circumstantial).

Werner does have some JJ Watt in him. High motor, plus pass rusher who can also defend the run, very good hands and very good at getting his hands up in passing lanes to bat down balls. He's the 4-3 DE version of him, but he definitely has similarities.

IMO, 3 QBs will go top 10 minimally. Could even be 4 or 5 if Buffalo reaches for Nassib or someone falls in love with Barkley. He's wrong there. I also hate that he keeps saying Albert could be kicked inside to guard. Its not happening. He can get LT money from someone and KC has good young OGs in ALlen and Asamoah.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:07 PM    (permalink
SolidGold
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Kiper is the godfather of the draft and all of us owe him a debt of gratitude for making the draft process into what it is today. I do think these days his pockets get lined by agents and he serves as a "hype" man for certain prospects. I do still appreciate his enthusiasm and energy. I can't stand McShay. Mayock is by far the best in the business these says. I have to watch Mayock - I will flip over to ESPN to see Kiper talk on day 2/3 of the draft here and there but all the constant talking heads on ESPN make it unbearable to watch.

I think Kiper and Mayock together could be entertaining. Once ESPN dumps Kiper for that tool Mcshay I hope Kiper makes it over to NFLN.
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
I won't post a link because it's against the rules, but let's highlight some aspects of Kiper's insane mock draft:

1. Montee Ball is a first round pick
2. 24-year old Florida State right tackle Menelik Watson is in the first round
3. Keenan Allen is the third receiver drafted (#27 overall)
4. Kevin Minter and Margus Hunt are in the first round
5. No quarterbacks are drafted in the first round

That doesn't even include some of the horrible schematic fits included in the mock. Is it time for Mel to retire? At this point, he seems to have no ability to evaluate prospects or provide logical mock drafts.
3.Why not? Seems perfectly plausible to me.

4.Margus Hunt is in the first or second round of most mocks out there, and anyone that has him past the second round doesn't know anything about football. That's the consensus right now, and I explained the reasoning behind it in the Margus Hunt thread.

5.This one is unlikely, there will always be at least a few QBs taken in the first, regardless of the quality of the crop. The need for a quality QB is just too great.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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And how that work out for the Bills taking McGahee?

Lattimore will not be healthy by draft time, not to mention the fact he's a RUNNING BACK COMING OFF TWO ACL TEARS. Only an absolutely moronic team would touch him in the first 3 rounds, let alone the 1st.
This guy came back from it

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/18/sp...iami.html?_r=0
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
I won't post a link because it's against the rules, but let's highlight some aspects of Kiper's insane mock draft:

1. Montee Ball is a first round pick
2. 24-year old Florida State right tackle Menelik Watson is in the first round
3. Keenan Allen is the third receiver drafted (#27 overall)
4. Kevin Minter and Margus Hunt are in the first round
5. No quarterbacks are drafted in the first round

That doesn't even include some of the horrible schematic fits included in the mock. Is it time for Mel to retire? At this point, he seems to have no ability to evaluate prospects or provide logical mock drafts.
Its January. Only matters about getting clicks at this point. He won't both trying to get it right till the one that matters.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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Kiper gets a bad rep by many "gurus" but he consistently near the tops in predicting the draft (with his last mock). Anything before that is just to spark interest and keep people talking about him.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:26 PM    (permalink
PossibleCabbage
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Kiper gets a bad rep by many "gurus" but he consistently near the tops in predicting the draft (with his last mock). Anything before that is just to spark interest and keep people talking about him.
How well you do in the mock draft competition is generally a function of "how good are your sources" not "how good are you at scouting." No one will claim that Kiper doesn't have good sources. This is handy since what most people care about from draft gurus is "what's going to happen on draft day" rather than "which players are going to be good in the NFL."

The telling thing is that when Kiper makes statements during the season based on his own tape eval rather than on a tip from or conversation with a league source, he often ends up being wildly off base (e.g. "The Kansas City Chiefs should take Manti Te'o #1 overall.")
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