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Old 01-18-2013, 06:08 PM    (permalink
Unbiased
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Tucker had two polar opposite years (the two years he took over as play caller). Hard to get a read on him because of that, but players love him. Quiet guy for sure. Bend/don't break with him.

Also: If you want to get excited about him, check out the boxscore from the 2011 game against the Ravens. Never forget...

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Old 01-18-2013, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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I'd definitely be willing to bet we see a woman GM before a coach.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:28 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal View Post
I'd definitely be willing to bet we see a woman GM before a coach.
There's already constant discussion about how coaches handle a locker room. I simply don't see players giving a women enough respect for her to ever have control of the team. Far too macho of a culture.

I could possibly see sometime in the distant future a women general manager. Personal attributes matter much less, while analytic attributes matter much more.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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There's already constant discussion about how coaches handle a locker room. I simply don't see players giving a women enough respect for her to ever have control of the team. Far too macho of a culture.

I could possibly see sometime in the distant future a women general manager. Personal attributes matter much less, while analytic attributes matter much more.
We still have a league in which locker rooms prevent having an openly *** player. Intentionally or not, I can't see an environment like that dealing well with a woman coach. And you know that'd be an easy thing for the media to speculate as a cause of the first sign of trouble.

Where as if you get a great business woman that knows the cap and can manage a staff well, she could easily make an owner happy as a GM.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:01 PM    (permalink
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There's already constant discussion about how coaches handle a locker room. I simply don't see players giving a women enough respect for her to ever have control of the team. Far too macho of a culture.

I could possibly see sometime in the distant future a women general manager. Personal attributes matter much less, while analytic attributes matter much more.
Its already rare to have a coach that did not play college ball at least. I don't see how a woman who probably never played even high school football would work as a coach. Unless she is the daughter of a coach like in remember the titans.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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Lots going on in this thread. Women: never as a head coach. The head coach needs to be able to come and go as she pleases in all team facilities, including the locker room. Too much junk hanging out in there for that to happen. As a GM, sure. It'll happen. Maybe Mike Brown's daughter after he dies.

That Rooney Rule for white RBs argument needs to get dropped right away, lol. If a white RB comes along and is best for the job, he's going to get it. It's unlikely, though. African-American physiology gives them a sizable advantage over Caucasians there (spoiler: higher bone density allows them to absorb more hits without their body wearing down). We're seeing an explosion of black QBs now. That was the last actual playing position anyone discriminated against with race.

I saw Marc Ross mentioned a couple of times. Everyone knows Ross is good at what he does, but he has to be bombing his interviews hard. You can't say it's race. Don't you think Ozzie Newsome would get a GM job this offseason if the Ravens decided to up and fire him? Also, Ross probably would have gotten the Jets opening, but he decided that he didn't even want it and withdrew his name. He's being picky.

As for the coaches...the fact of the matter is that 9/10 black coaches go defense when starting their careers and that's where they're stuck. Being defensive guys was good for a time there, but that's just not the side of the ball head dudes are coming from nowadays.

Not too long ago we had what? I think 8 black head coaches at the same time? Black folks make up 13ish% of the US population, but they had 25% of all NFL HC gigs. That right there makes it seem to me like the NFL has finally moved past it.

There were 8 hires this time around. Only one went to a D guy. That's all that happened. Mike Zimmer is lily white and has been waiting. When the stink of Oakland and the Carson Palmer trade wears off Hue Jackson, he'll get to go again. I think Caldwell's out just because he's a statue. There was really only one legit black candidate this year, anyway, and he's already looking less like head coach material with his unprofessional screaming at his GM. He looks like a hotheaded jerkoff who shouldn't have a high-level management position with a company worth a billion dollars now.

The Rooney Rule was a really good thing, but I think it's outlived its usefulness. It allowed the owners and GMs to see that minorities can coach just fine; they can get hired solely on merit now. Some of the owners are no doubt racist as ****, being old white guys...but there's been enough evidence put before them at this point that they're not going to hurt their own business by allowing it to affect a coaching hire.

Someone start teaching young black guys how to coach offense, because until that happens or we get major rule changes, they're screwed.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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As fascinating as this is, someone tell me more about Mel Tucker.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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The Browns are looking better and better. That's one hell of coaching staff they have going on
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:44 AM    (permalink
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We still have a league in which locker rooms prevent having an openly *** player. Intentionally or not, I can't see an environment like that dealing well with a woman coach. And you know that'd be an easy thing for the media to speculate as a cause of the first sign of trouble.

Where as if you get a great business woman that knows the cap and can manage a staff well, she could easily make an owner happy as a GM.
That's true, but there are longstanding rumors of a barely-closeted *** GM. He does his job well, so nobody cares. I think that when a player ultimately "comes out," it won't be as hard as some people think.

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Old 01-19-2013, 04:11 AM    (permalink
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Not too long ago we had what? I think 8 black head coaches at the same time? Black folks make up 13ish% of the US population, but they had 25% of all NFL HC gigs. That right there makes it seem to me like the NFL has finally moved past it.
How is that at all relevant? You could just as easily say that the majority of nfl players are black, yet there are only 3 black HC's.
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:41 AM    (permalink
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This **** is going too far. Lets talk about the actual coaches and who is going to be getting a new gig in the league rather than who and who isn't....
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:25 AM    (permalink
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How is that at all relevant? You could just as easily say that the majority of nfl players are black, yet there are only 3 black HC's.
It's relevant because with all things being equal, the support staff breakdown SHOULD closely mirror the breakdown of the US's population. All races (and whatever Latinos are considered by the law of whatever nation you're in) have equal mental, problem-solving, and organizational abilities.

I don't see the correlation between the number of black players and the number of black coaches. It's not there. This isn't a democracy with gerrymandered districts where the players vote right down color lines for a coach. Blacks being overrepresented on the athletic side has no bearing at all on the management/brains side.

Assuming equal interest (which there isn't), equal education opportunities, and a completely nondiscriminatory hiring system, there should be:

21 non-hispanic white head coaches
6 hispanic head coaches
4 black head coaches
1 Asian head coach

In reality, with hispanic and asian-american cultural interest in american football being essentially nil (but growing quickly in Cali and Texas!), it should really be more like 26-27 white coaches (84% of the remaining coaches from the sample of the two interested races were white, so all we have to do is multiply by the total of 32 by 0.84), 5 black coaches (32 * 0.16), and occasionally, but not every year, one "other" that would come from the white total. Right now we have our "other" in Ron Rivera. We only have 3 black head coaches after this offseason's firings, so yes, they are underrepresented by 2. What we're seeing now could be explained away as a statistical overcorrection, since african-americans were actually heavily overrepresnted in the head coaching ranks for a while...but it's not. The imbalance is going to remain or grow until more young black guys start learning offense. It'd help a lot if the NCAA had a Rooney Rule to increase the hiring pool. The NCAA is whiter than Antarctica.

All three black coaches happen to come from defensive backgrounds, which fits right in with what I said in my last post.

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Old 01-19-2013, 08:11 AM    (permalink
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Jags hire UM OC Jedd Fisch. Bastards.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:23 AM    (permalink
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Jags hire UM OC Jedd Fisch. Bastards.
The new North Florida Seahawks.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:38 AM    (permalink
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That's true, but there are longstanding rumors of a barely-closeted *** GM. He does his job well, so nobody cares. I think that when a player ultimately "comes out," it won't be as hard as some people think.
I don't think the team will think its a big deal at all. The media will make a huge deal out of it. An openly *** GM will be zero problem at all as long as he does his job well, like every other GM. Of course there are areas of the country where this line of thinking is not accepted.

It's gonna take a strong person to get it done. Hard enough telling your friends and family, before realizing you'll be national news for a week.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:28 AM    (permalink
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How is that at all relevant? You could just as easily say that the majority of nfl players are black, yet there are only 3 black HC's.
So you are saying that the NFL is racist against white players?
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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That Rooney Rule for white RBs argument needs to get dropped right away, lol. If a white RB comes along and is best for the job, he's going to get it. It's unlikely, though. African-American physiology gives them a sizable advantage over Caucasians there (spoiler: higher bone density allows them to absorb more hits without their body wearing down). We're seeing an explosion of black QBs now. That was the last actual playing position anyone discriminated against with race.

[/u][/b][/color][/size]
Completely disagree. Obvious bias exists in the league regarding players - especially white players. They are openly mocked when they play skill positions. As a white person I am completely aware of this happening and astounded that it is glossed over - but that it the society we live in.

Rex Burkhead is better than most RBs coming out in this draft yet people are going to come up with ways to discount his ability - hard working, not the flashiest player, not the fastest etc. Basically the NFL narrative has carved out roles for players to play. Why can't Jake Locker play in a spread option attack? Why did scouts, commentators, draftniks and journalists all say the offense Tebow played in at Florida would not work in the NFL yet three years later that offense is all the rage now but only black QBs are playing in it? I wish the author's of Freakanomics would delve into some of these questions because no one else seems to want to. Call me what you will but the double standard goes both ways in the NFL just like it does in the real world with affirmative action.

Perhaps the owners/gm's who hired these coaches decided they were the best fit for their job based on their experience.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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The Browns are looking better and better. That's one hell of coaching staff they have going on


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As fascinating as this is, someone tell me more about Mel Tucker.
Regarded as a solid DB coach when he was with the Browns in Crennel's 34 defense. Leigh Bodden, Brandon McDonald, Eric Wright & Sean Jones were solid players under him. Coached competitive defenses in Jacksonville with the likes of Derek Cox and Mathis as starting CBs, void of any pass rush and without much offense to help them out. I think he's primarily a zone guy with situational man to man. Doesn't blitz a lot.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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It amazes me that we are still talking about race in this thread as if it's going to go anywhere. Maybe if we talk about it for the next 20 pages someone will have changed their mind before the thread gets locked.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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Tucker was always man to man with CBs in Jacksonville. It may have just been because you would be stupid not to with Cox/Mathis.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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So, Mike Shula is the new Panthers OC and Greg Olson is the new Raiders OC?

As a Buccaneers fan, I have only this to say to Panthers and Raiders fans: "You poor bastards..."
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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So, Mike Shula is the new Panthers OC and Greg Olson is the new Raiders OC?

As a Buccaneers fan, I have only this to say to Panthers and Raiders fans: "You poor bastards..."
I don't know. I probably would have preferred Hue Jackson, but Shula's been pretty critical in Cam's development. From what I heard, he also did a good job in Jacksonville with Gerrard. He's maintaining a general continuity on offense, which can be a good thing, particularly for Cam's development, so long as we avoid Chud's habit of overusing the zone-read regardless of whether it's working or not.
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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So, Greg Olson is Raiders OC? Dennis Allen is so fired. Reggie McKenzie gave him complete control over his coaching staff and he first brings in Knapp and now Olson. I mean, really? That's the best you can do.

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Old 01-19-2013, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Jags hire UM OC Jedd Fisch. Bastards.
That's disappointing. Congratulations Jacksonville, you guys got a good one.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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So, Greg Olson is Raiders OC? Dennis Allen is so fired. Reggie McKenzie gave him complete control over his coaching staff and he first brings in Knapp and now Olson. I mean, really? That's the best you can do.

This is a bit part of why we're seeing so many offensive minded head coaches. A defensive minded head coach is going to have a lot of trouble finding and keeping a good OC.

First, he has to pick through the trash for guys like Knapp and Olson. (Hell, Mike ******* Martz even got an interview in Oakland.) And if one of these guys somehow has a successful season, he'll be getting head coaching jobs next year.

The last 10 pages of this thread can be summed up as this: It's a poor time to be a defensive or minority coaching candidate in the NFL right now.
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