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Old 01-21-2013, 08:16 AM    (permalink
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Finally, an idea I can get behind:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...and-diversity/

Creating a better flow from position coaches to coordinator spots would definitely help, moreso than just expanding the Rooney rule in my opinion.

The potential for abuses is still there though, which is why they haven't revised the rule allowing teams to block position coaches from interviewing from non head coaching positions.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:18 AM    (permalink
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Chip Kelly's deal is reportedly $32.5 million over 5 years per Adam Schefter
That would make me change my mind too.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:35 AM    (permalink
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I said this years ago on a thread about the Rooney rule, and I'll reiterate my idea again: apply the Rooney rule to position and coordinator positions, rather than head coaches.
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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Giving minorities opportunity, what a joke!
I usually defend the Rooney Rule, for the simple reason that giving minorities an opportunity is a good thing. However, I don't think it's actually a good rule. Good intentions, but it doesn't solve the problem. The way to increase the amount of minority coaches isn't just to increase the interviews, you have to increase the pool of quality candidates. Get them more coordinator positions rather than having guys build coaching staffs of their friends and former coworkers, and you'll have a larger pool to select from an more quality candidates to be hired.

Build a pipeline. Don't just force teams to interview the same handful of qualified minority coordinators.
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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That's why I think we'll see a modification to the rule to reflect that change Smooth.

The NFL does not want to see a lawsuit. They'll adjust. Don't be surprised to see this change effective as soon as this offseason.
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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That's why I think we'll see a modification to the rule to reflect that change Smooth.

The NFL does not want to see a lawsuit. They'll adjust. Don't be surprised to see this change effective as soon as this offseason.
I hope so. It's certainly a better solution. The way the rule is set now tries to tackle the most visible issue without solving the reason behind it. Not the best way to go about fixing things.
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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I hope so. It's certainly a better solution. The way the rule is set now tries to tackle the most visible issue without solving the reason behind it. Not the best way to go about fixing things.
Time will also fix the issue. I think by the time this generation gets to be 40, 50 years old, a lot of these issues will go away. Not entirely, but it will be much better than it is now, just like how its much better now than it was 20 years ago.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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I usually defend the Rooney Rule, for the simple reason that giving minorities an opportunity is a good thing. However, I don't think it's actually a good rule. Good intentions, but it doesn't solve the problem. The way to increase the amount of minority coaches isn't just to increase the interviews, you have to increase the pool of quality candidates. Get them more coordinator positions rather than having guys build coaching staffs of their friends and former coworkers, and you'll have a larger pool to select from an more quality candidates to be hired.

Build a pipeline. Don't just force teams to interview the same handful of qualified minority coordinators.
I agree. The way the system is now is almost more of a slap in the face. When teams are looking for their new head coach, articles almost always read something like, "Coach X will be in town for an interview Monday, and the team will be throwing everything they can at him to keep him in town until he signs a contract. Coach Z has already been interviewed to meet the Rooney Rule requirements." So minority coaches are basically being used and interviewed, with no real hope of actually getting jobs.

I think minority coaches should boycott interviews for teams that are only showing great interest in white coaches, or at least delay their interviews until after the white coach has had his. This would at least exploit the strategy that teams are using to get the coach they want, while pretending that they were actually interested in the the minority coach all along.
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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I agree. The way the system is now is almost more of a slap in the face. When teams are looking for their new head coach, articles almost always read something like, "Coach X will be in town for an interview Monday, and the team will be throwing everything they can at him to keep him in town until he signs a contract. Coach Z has already been interviewed to meet the Rooney Rule requirements." So minority coaches are basically being used and interviewed, with no real hope of actually getting jobs.

I think minority coaches should boycott interviews for teams that are only showing great interest in white coaches, or at least delay their interviews until after the white coach has had his. This would at least exploit the strategy that teams are using to get the coach they want, while pretending that they were actually interested in the the minority coach all along.
This has been suggested, but they risk being blackballed by the coaching fraternity if they do. There is nothing obligating them to agree to interview for a head coaching job even if they aren't going to get it, but it could harm them down the road.

If a black defensive coordinator with no shot in hell of getting the head job is asked to come in and interview on a team who is strongly pursuing someone else, he's going to do it because if he says declines to interview for that team, he's potentially removing an employer for himself down the line.
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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The minority coaches should go into those interviews as prepared as possible, and as early as possible hoping to make a great impression and land a job. Even if they don't get that job it's about building a reputation.

Always take the professional route. Nothing wrong with doing the best you can at an interview even if you don't think you're being seriously considered. Never know who you'll impress or who will hear about it and give you a chance down the road. No point in burning bridges just to make a point.
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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I hear you. But at some point, are they doing more damage than good to their cause? Right now they are just helping the owners do what they were doing before and have wanted to do all along...hire white coaches to be the face of their franchise.
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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I hear you. But at some point, are they doing more damage than good to their cause? Right now they are just helping the owners do what they were doing before and have wanted to do all along...hire white coaches to be the face of their franchise.
Dunno if it was intentional, but it sounds like you're saying that like they're going hardcore after the one guy BECAUSE he's white. Look at Kansas City: from the minute Andy Reid was let go, they were dead set on him. Is it because he's white? Of course not. If Andy Reid were darker than Wesley Snipes, they'd have still chased him to be the "face of their franchise." When teams make their mind up before even going through the interview process, it's because the guy is that good and deserves it.

If you're a good minority candidate asked to do an obvious Rooney Rule interview in a situation like that, you go into your Kansas City interview well prepared and wow them. That way, they mention how good you look to other teams and you build a reputation as a "future head coach."

People and the media are getting silly with this stuff, acting like George Preston Marshall did all of the hiring this offseason.

I've said it before, I'll say it again...the problem is black coaches going defense rather than offense at the start of their careers. Right now, they're overwhelmingly on the side of the ball that isn't hot. That's because most offensive guys started off as QBs (lily white position until recently) and most defensive guys started off as DBs or linebackers (much better race distribution). It's going to take some time, but good minority football minds need to be identified and taught how to coach offense.
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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I've said it before, I'll say it again...the problem is black coaches going defense rather than offense at the start of their careers. Right now, they're overwhelmingly on the side of the ball that isn't hot. That's because most offensive guys started off as QBs (lily white position until recently) and most defensive guys started off as DBs or linebackers (much better race distribution). It's going to take some time, but good minority football minds need to be identified and taught how to coach offense.
That is something that expanding the Rooney rule to coordinator and assistant head coach positions would help somewhat.

Right now, unless I'm missing someone obvious, there are two black offensive coordinators in the NFL: Jim Caldwell in Baltimore and Pep Hamilton in Indy. Caldwell was a midseason replacement and Pep was just hired this offseason.

If it can be expanded to coordinator hires (and the rule allowing teams to block non-head coach interviews is lifted as has been discussed,) that may allow some of the black RB coaches or WR coaches to get their names into the mix instead of just the, as you aptly described, "lily white" QB coaches who seem to be the favorite guys to elevate.

It's a tricky situation and the Rooney Rule couldn't have taken into account this sudden favoritism of one side of the ball in coaching hires. (6 of the 7 coaches hired this year come from offensive backgrounds.)
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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Finally, an idea I can get behind:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...and-diversity/

Creating a better flow from position coaches to coordinator spots would definitely help, moreso than just expanding the Rooney rule in my opinion.

The potential for abuses is still there though, which is why they haven't revised the rule allowing teams to block position coaches from interviewing from non head coaching positions.
That article makes a good point. On the Packers current staff, everybody talks about Darren Perry as a "future Defensive Coordinator" but he's stuck behind Capers, unless he wants to let his contract expire. On the other side of the ball, McCarthy has been grooming Edgar Bennett to be an Offensive Coordinator, but when? When somebody gives Tom Clements a Head Coaching job? That day isn't coming.

Bennett would be much more likely to become a Head Coach if he were free to leave and take an Offensive Coordinator job sometime before Tom Clements retires.

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Old 01-21-2013, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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That is something that expanding the Rooney rule to coordinator and assistant head coach positions would help somewhat.

Right now, unless I'm missing someone obvious, there are two black offensive coordinators in the NFL: Jim Caldwell in Baltimore and Pep Hamilton in Indy. Caldwell was a midseason replacement and Pep was just hired this offseason.

If it can be expanded to coordinator hires (and the rule allowing teams to block non-head coach interviews is lifted as has been discussed,) that may allow some of the black RB coaches or WR coaches to get their names into the mix instead of just the, as you aptly described, "lily white" QB coaches who seem to be the favorite guys to elevate.

It's a tricky situation and the Rooney Rule couldn't have taken into account this sudden favoritism of one side of the ball in coaching hires. (6 of the 7 coaches hired this year come from offensive backgrounds.)
I think the black offensive coach problem is a little trickier to beat than that. Most guys tend to coach the position they played, and RBs and WRs...blech. A lot of those guys we can recognize from their playing days as meatheads. Even white RB and WR coaches aren't getting moved up like that unless they started off as QBs in college or as QB coaches. The focus for guys to build the offense is on ex-QBs and ex-QB coaches...and it makes sense. It is a quarterback-driven league.

I think the trick is to get more black QBs who didn't make it to the NFL to start coaching in college, first as graduate assistants, then hopefully as QB coaches...but really anywhere, just as long as they started off QBs. That's how most of these white OCs started off, anyhow. NCAA Rooney Rule for offensive assistants fixes everything in time, imo. That'd be how to get more Peps and Hues.

The alternative is to grab the smartest defensive assistants who are starting out and put them through an actual program to teach them offense. They'd be rare, but you'd end up with an occasional Jim Caldwell like that.

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Old 01-21-2013, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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I hear you. But at some point, are they doing more damage than good to their cause? Right now they are just helping the owners do what they were doing before and have wanted to do all along...hire white coaches to be the face of their franchise.
Hardly. They're getting their names out there. And it's not like this is some problem that's being buried. Medias talking about it, solutions are being proposed. It's not like these guys taking interviews are making everyone satisfied that all that can be done is being done.
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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@mikejurecki
Hearing #Cards will hire Mike Caldwell as the new LB's coach, Caldwell played 10 yrs including w/ Az in 1997, recently LB coach w/ Eagles.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:02 AM    (permalink
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Jim Washburn went to the Lions? Holy moly.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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Jim Washburn went to the Lions? Holy moly.
Curious to see if he can get the best out of Suh.

Suh is not a wide 9 DLmen. I think his best position is arguably 3-4 DE. He's a stack and shed guy. Very good as a 2 gap defender.

But maybe Washburn can get it out of him.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:56 AM    (permalink
brat316
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If Washburn is held in check yeah, if he demands wide 9 or nothing else well they gonna suck.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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Washburn is gonna run wide 9 all day long. He's a doucher like that.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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Wide 9 with Suh and Fairley? I don't like it.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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Wide 9 with Suh and Fairley? I don't like it.
I honestly think that Suh's #s would dramatically increase if Detroit got a DE worth a damn. Teams are not concerned with the edge rush from Detroit.

He's still not a pass rushing 1 gap specialist though. He needs to read and react. The wide 9 is a bad system for him.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-head-coaches/

So the proposal is that when a team fires a coordinator, they interview a minority candidate to fill the job. That's nice and all, but it's still not going to work for offensive guys. There just aren't enough worthy minority candidates right now.

If implemented, it wouldn't apply to coordinator hires by new head coaches. Florio whines about it, throwing in his two ******* cents that no one wants to hear, as always. It's the right way to do it. New head coaches have their staffs put together before being hired 99% of the time. They can usually tell the person interviewing them who they're bringing with. Nearly every Rooney Rule interview conducted by a new head coach would be a sham.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Dunno if it was intentional, but it sounds like you're saying that like they're going hardcore after the one guy BECAUSE he's white. Look at Kansas City: from the minute Andy Reid was let go, they were dead set on him. Is it because he's white? Of course not. If Andy Reid were darker than Wesley Snipes, they'd have still chased him to be the "face of their franchise." When teams make their mind up before even going through the interview process, it's because the guy is that good and deserves it.

If you're a good minority candidate asked to do an obvious Rooney Rule interview in a situation like that, you go into your Kansas City interview well prepared and wow them. That way, they mention how good you look to other teams and you build a reputation as a "future head coach."

People and the media are getting silly with this stuff, acting like George Preston Marshall did all of the hiring this offseason.

I've said it before, I'll say it again...the problem is black coaches going defense rather than offense at the start of their careers. Right now, they're overwhelmingly on the side of the ball that isn't hot. That's because most offensive guys started off as QBs (lily white position until recently) and most defensive guys started off as DBs or linebackers (much better race distribution). It's going to take some time, but good minority football minds need to be identified and taught how to coach offense.
I see now how it could have been taken that way, but I didn't mean to suggest that teams were purposely hiring white coaches, or that the white coaches were getting hired because they are not black. What I was trying to say is exactly what someone else said...Andy Reid is available, he's our guy, tunnel vision...let's interview the black guy and get it over with so we can hire the guy we want.
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