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Old 01-23-2013, 04:06 PM    (permalink
TACKLE
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Is it just me or has Ansah looked very underwhelming?
Unfortunately, at this point he just doesn't really have any moves in his toolkit.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
I mean, I'm sure he'll have more opportunities to show he can catch the ball throughout the process. I just thought it was odd how everybody assumed that he could do it. It's not the easiest transition to make (QB->WR). Switching positions is never easy or automatic.
I agree that switching positions is a tough proposition, however, I think Robinson can make the transition to WR and if he runs in the 4.30 area at the combine, he'll get a shot at playing it in the NFL. It will take him some time to get up to full speed learning the position but if he works hard at it, I think he could be special.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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Unfortunately, at this point he just doesn't really have any moves in his toolkit.
See, I can live with that if that were the case.

But more concerning to me is how he just can't disengage off of OL at all. If they get their hands on him, he's done. If his first move doesn't work, he's done.

And he's stiff. I don't see the same length or flexibility that a JPP had for me to say Ansah can be the next JPP.

And then I ask myself, ok, if he's not freakish enough to be a JPP, and he's raw as hell, then why should I gamble on him?

Part of the elure of JPP was the fact that he had the tools to be the best DE in the league. Incredible length, power, flexibility, speed and motor. Ansah has some of those tools, but not all of them.

I just don't know yet if I can sell myself on him. It's early in the process, but right now he's pretty underwhelming.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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See, I can live with that if that were the case.

But more concerning to me is how he just can't disengage off of OL at all. If they get their hands on him, he's done. If his first move doesn't work, he's done.

And he's stiff. I don't see the same length or flexibility that a JPP had for me to say Ansah can be the next JPP.

And then I ask myself, ok, if he's not freakish enough to be a JPP, and he's raw as hell, then why should I gamble on him?

Part of the elure of JPP was the fact that he had the tools to be the best DE in the league. Incredible length, power, flexibility, speed and motor. Ansah has some of those tools, but not all of them.

I just don't know yet if I can sell myself on him. It's early in the process, but right now he's pretty underwhelming.
I agree, I think he will fall to round 2, the potenial is still there but it is going to take real good coaching the next 2/3 years to bring his game up to snuff.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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I doubt he falls to the 2nd round. I'd still be surprised if he fell out of the top 15.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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It's interesting. This is a copy cat league. JPP's recent success will make workout warriors climb up boards.

But JPP's fall in the draft was bc of Vernon Gholston and the likes. People have short term memory, and draft trends often mimic recent success. But it's cyclical. I can see Ansah flaming out then the workout warrior takes a fall in the draft after that.

It's really should be viewed independently but trends often dictate draft stock unfortunately.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Larry Warford dominated Jenkins and the guy from South Florida he looks like he can really anchor the pocket.

Terron Armstead looks like an intriguing player.

Lane Johnson continues to destroy people.

Schwenke has literally dominated every 1 on 1 that I have seen.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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You gotta take the character of the player into account. Gholston didn't fail because he was a workout warrior, it's cause he didn't work hard enough to refine his skills once he got the money. Ansah seems like the exact opposite. From what i've seen and heard he seems humble guy who doesn't even know what he's capable of.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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I still wonder why people compare the two. JPP and Ansah don't play the same, for the most part played a different position in college, and are different sorts of athletes from different sorts of backgrounds. Ansah is much more similar to Coples, but with a motor. People always just want to compare the prospects they like to someone that's really good.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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That's true. Character goes a long way with these guys whether theyre willing to put in the work to improve.

I also feel that the game is different from practice. I know most scouts don't care for the game, and they use the practices as evaluations, but to me, its all about the game.

Some guys just suck at practice. And some guys are great at practice but can't play. We see it all the time. To me the game is what's important bc that's where the production matters. If Ansah comes out and just wrecks **** during the game, I'm gonna value that immensely.

Practice is practice. The game is the game. Ansah looks like **** right now, but I won't write him off yet. I want to see how he competes when they're playing and keeping score.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, and you can't just forget his tape because of a few practices. His tape isn't amazing or anything, but take into account how raw he is and his production and he's still a 1st round prospect, imo. I doubt two days will change that.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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The first priority of any team should be protecting there own QB and keeping him comfortable. The second priority would be making the opposing QB uncomfortable.

No matter how great a defense they are still going to give up points when push comes to shove and you are going to have to have a QB who can put up points too. Gone are the days of defense wins championships.

Arizona has one of the worst offensive lines of the last 20 years maybe even longer. Like the first guy said they would be down right stupid to let a guy like Fisher or Joeckel go by them on the draft board.
I'm not saying don't address the offensive line but given the choice of Mingo and maybe Kyle Long in the second as opposed to Fisher and a second round rush player i'll take the former.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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That's true. Character goes a long way with these guys whether theyre willing to put in the work to improve.

I also feel that the game is different from practice. I know most scouts don't care for the game, and they use the practices as evaluations, but to me, its all about the game.

Some guys just suck at practice. And some guys are great at practice but can't play. We see it all the time. To me the game is what's important bc that's where the production matters. If Ansah comes out and just wrecks **** during the game, I'm gonna value that immensely.

Practice is practice. The game is the game. Ansah looks like **** right now, but I won't write him off yet. I want to see how he competes when they're playing and keeping score.
I remember when Gabe Watson was a Senior Bowl practice All-Star. smh
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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I remember when Gabe Watson was a Senior Bowl practice All-Star. smh
So was Dan Williams. Remember him?
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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So was Dan Williams. Remember him?
Isn't he a pretty solid player in the NFL?
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:03 PM    (permalink
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Isn't he a pretty solid player in the NFL?
He's a decent starter. He's not what he was supposed to be though. He was being compared to Chris Jenkins.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, and you can't just forget his tape because of a few practices. His tape isn't amazing or anything, but take into account how raw he is and his production and he's still a 1st round prospect, imo. I doubt two days will change that.
But you also can't forget his practices because of some tape. Its pretty well recorded that good collegiate tape in no way ensures good professional play. Its a reason why the Senior Bowl started up, scouts wanted more than watching players in perhaps advantageous schemes against inferior opponents. Although there are only a few practices, it allows you to see players compete against the type of talent they will face at the next level, without the benefit of any scheme that may mask weaknesses.

Neither tape nor Senior Bowl practices should be tossed out simply because it doesn't affirm a previous opinion of a player.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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That's also why bowl game performances are weighted much heavier than what you did week 3 vs Bumblefuck University.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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But you also can't forget his practices because of some tape. Its pretty well recorded that good collegiate tape in no way ensures good professional play. Its a reason why the Senior Bowl started up, scouts wanted more than watching players in perhaps advantageous schemes against inferior opponents. Although there are only a few practices, it allows you to see players compete against the type of talent they will face at the next level, without the benefit of any scheme that may mask weaknesses.

Neither tape nor Senior Bowl practices should be tossed out simply because it doesn't affirm a previous opinion of a player.
Well yeah, I just think it was an overreaction for people to be saying stuff like "he could go 2nd round" because of a few days of practice.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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I doubt he falls to the 2nd round. I'd still be surprised if he fell out of the top 15.
I don't see any way he goes top 15, teams drafting top 15 are looking for immediate help and this guy is a project who will likely be drafted by a team that has a lot of patience and can afford to wait for its rewards.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JohnCandy View Post
Larry Warford dominated Jenkins and the guy from South Florida he looks like he can really anchor the pocket.

Terron Armstead looks like an intriguing player.

Lane Johnson continues to destroy people.

Schwenke has literally dominated every 1 on 1 that I have seen.
Like Mayock, I was really impressed by Schwenke, should start a long time at OC in the NFL.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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Bumblefuck University.
My new favourite university. Laughed out loud.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
I agree that switching positions is a tough proposition, however, I think Robinson can make the transition to WR and if he runs in the 4.30 area at the combine, he'll get a shot at playing it in the NFL. It will take him some time to get up to full speed learning the position but if he works hard at it, I think he could be special.
There could be a wide receiver who runs in a straight line at 30% the speed of light, and if he can't be counted on to catch the ball when he's open, I'm not sure I want that guy on my team as a receiver (he can run reverses and stuff, but I don't know if that's worth a roster spot.)

Maybe someone will, but Al Davis is dead so the obvious joke doesn't apply anymore.

I mean, let us not forget that Troy Williamson ran a 4.3 and had experience playing wide receiver in college. If you can't catch the ball, you can't play receiver.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
I think the Cardinals are out of their minds if they don't take Jarvis Jones or Mingo with having to play Seattle and San Francisco twice a year each.

Lane Johnson would probably be near as good a pickup as Fisher for the Rams.
Lane Johnson's moving up the draft boards makes me extremely nervous. This is sounding a lot like what Jason Smith did several years ago.

Both are ex Tight Ends who are very raw and lack experience and technique at the Tackle position. And, Johnson like Smith, is moving up people's boards based on off season practice and not what he did in the actual games.

I remember that Smith looked the part of a quintessential NFL grade OT and then within 2 weeks of signing him he was demoted to the right side because he couldn't pass block to save his or the Rams QB's life.

I'm not saying that Lane Johnson will end up being a bust like Jason Smith, but the parallels are there and they are troubling to say the least.

As far as the Rams are concerned I would pass on Johnson at 16 and probably at 22 also.

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Old 01-23-2013, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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Ansah is more like Aldon Smith.

Stand him up in the 3-4 and put him next to a dominant DE, and he'll make the most of what you are paying him.
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