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Old 01-20-2013, 11:08 AM    (permalink
Nastradamus
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Originally Posted by Seasonticketholder View Post
Saints pass up on Dion Jordan and Sheldon Richardson for Eric Fisher? I just do not see it. Fisher is a talented player so I do not want to take away from him in any sort of way. But DE/DT are just bigger needs. Besides, the assumption here is that Bushrod won't be re-sign. If he is not, the Saints will have a contingency plan in place and I doubt it will involve using the first round pick on an OT. See Carl Nicks--Ben Grubbs.
I think Fisher is too good to pass there and I do think Bushrod will leave. YOu can't pay that whole OL big money and they have to re-sign their C too, not to mention the 2 highly paid OGs.
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Pass coverage from the ILB spot is and has been a problem for the past few seasons. Lewis retiring doesn't downgrade it at all since it's already bad. It would be easier to find help at ILB later than it would be to get a quality pass-rusher later.

If you look at what Baltimore's cap situation will be it's hard to see how they're going to be able to afford Kruger after Flacco gets his new deal. I'm assuming they re-sign Ellerbe (he'll be the cheapest out of him, Kruger, and Williams) and that should be about it barring any major cap restructuring moves. That leaves Suggs as the only viable pass-rusher on the team. I like Upshaw a lot but that's not his strength at all. With how important the pass-rush is to a defense they need to address it early. Depth isn't really an issue at OLB with McClellan behind the other two but the pass-rush definitely is.
IF its been a problem for multiple years, why wouldn't you try and fix it? I'm not saying its downgraded because Lewis left, but that still leaves a starting spot to be filled and Ogletree is the type of player they'd ideally fill it with.

FWIW, I'm not saying either that they have to take an ILB in the first or that they shouldn't be looking to upgrade the pass rush. I just think Ogletree is the best value there if he falls that far and that pass rush can be taken care of elsewhere if needed. Plus, they can always maneuver around the cap to sign Kruger if they really want him. You can restructure guys like Ngata,Suggs and Boldin(or cut in his case). You probably won't pay anything significant to keep WIlliams with Webb coming back either. Lewis and probably Reed will be off the cap. I think they can keep him if they value him. With Flacco and Ellerbe being kept too.
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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You probably value Ogletree a lot higher than I do and that's where our main difference lies. It would be nice to get an ILB that can be an asset in coverage but I don't think they need to use a first round pick to do so. Especially when the pass-rush is a much more important facet of the defense. If Ellerbe is brought back like I expect him to be then it should be even less of a priority.

As for the cap management issue, they would have to make some moves that would probably hurt them quite a bit in future years. Restructuring guys like Ngata and Suggs would put a ton of money against the cap. Boldin will probably get an extension and have his deal reworked for this year so there's some cap relief from that but not nearly enough to keep Kruger and/or Ellerbe. I fully expect Williams to be gone and I hope he leaves anyways. Reed is already a free agent so he won't provide any cap space if he retires or signs somewhere else.

The bottom line is that the pass-rush should be one of the biggest priorities, probably more than ILB, and with guys like Jordan and Ansah on the board it's hard to be happy about taking Ogletree. It's easier to get viable ILB options later in the draft than it is to get quality pass-rushers.
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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I like your assessment on Glennon; I think he is the best QB prospect in this draft and a good fit for Reid's offense.

I don't like Geno Smith that much so as an Eagle's fan I'd rather be the team that trades down.
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:55 AM    (permalink
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If Joeckel falls to Detroit and they trade him away Im pretty sure I'd swear off the Lions for good.
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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Yah, hopefully Heyward gets a lot more playing time next year. You could potentially have a very good, young DL next year if so.
A lot of talent. Heyward has looked good in limited time. McClendon looks as if he could start at NT and make some plays. Hood has improved, which isn't saying much. Keisel still has some years left in him.

I'd love to add Hankins to that group. He and McClendon would make me feel pretty good about NT.
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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This would be a stellar pick, but I just can't imagine Jordan falling this far.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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If Joeckel falls to Detroit and they trade him away Im pretty sure I'd swear off the Lions for good.
He'd be great value, but we need defense and depth more.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:25 AM    (permalink
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Good POSITION for KC, but I'm not a big Glennon fan. Would prefer Geno or Tyler Wilson there, but at least it isn't Joeckel, so I can't complain too much.
If I do a mock this year I'm giving KC Brian Bulaga.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:25 AM    (permalink
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This would be a stellar pick, but I just can't imagine Jordan falling this far.
It wasn't that long ago that Jordan and Ansah were both fallback picks if none of the other pass rushers lasted that long. Sigh.

Jordan would be great, as would Richardson.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:13 AM    (permalink
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Barret Jones

He is coming off of Lisfranc surgery and the Bears have been burned by drafting injured OLmen early.

With Kromer and Trestman they are going to take a big college OT and make him an OG to protect Jay.

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Old 01-25-2013, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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Maybe his teammate Fluker then
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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1. KC - Mike Glennon - I think Reid will fall in love with him. He's the Matt Ryan of this draft IMO.

Reid plays strictly a WCO and I think Glennon suits a vertical offence a lot more. He did nothing to even suggest a round 1 QB at the Senior Bowl, nevermind #1 overall.

2. Jax - Star Lotulei - I get the feeling Caldwell wants to give Gabbert one more shot so the next best thing is getting an anchor to build the D around.
3. Oakland - Jarvis Jones - Oakland needs to go best defensive player available here, period. Jones is definitely that guy.
4. Philly - Geno Smith - Geno's a good fit for Kelly, much better than Foles. Vick will likely be out of the picture due to his contract.
5. Detroit - (trade to SD for #11 plus 3rd and 4th round picks this year) - Luke Joeckel - The Charger have major OL issues, especially at LT. Joeckel is a special prospect and worth moving up for.

I, like you, think Detroit needs to go defense, however, if Backus retires, Stafford has to be protected and Mayhew has definitely shown a tendency to have a solid offense first. Joeckle would assure our OL for years to come with bookend OT's
.
6. Cleveland - Damontre Moore - Him and SHeard give them the twin pass rushers a 3-4 needs.

7. Arizona - Tyler Wilson - They are about as desperate for a QB as you can be. I think Wilson will rise once teams evaluate him fully. He had a lot going against him last year.

Not a Wilson fan and I believe that Geo Smith is clearly the top ranked QB in this class with maybe a junior, Tyler Bray 2nd. Wilson and Glennon had a shot at the Senior bowl to make a move up draft boards with very mixed results. I don't think they showed enough to warrent high picks.

8. Buffalo - Manti Te'o - LB was a big problem for the Bills last year and Te'o is the perfect guy to clean up behind that talented DL. I think he'll recover a lot of the value he's perceived to have lost between now and the draft. He seems like he'll end up in innocent in the hoax, he'll interview well and I think he'll have a surprising combine/workout.

Could very well resurrect himself but top 10 might just be a little high if he is found wanting as a team leader.

9. NY Jets - Barkevious Mingo - They need a dynamic outside pass rusher. His natural talent is off the charts and I think Ryan can get the most out of it.

I think the Jets will go offense and more offense in the draft. Sanchez needs a lot of help and Warmack would make their OL dominate. I don't think Ryan will have as much imput into the draft under a new GM.

10. Titans - Chance Warmack - I think this pick should be automatic if he's here. He's worth the pick and the Titans have a desperate need.
11. Detroit(via SD) - Bjoern Werner - They luck into a top 5-8 talent. Millner is tough to pass on given their needs, but I think WErner is the better player and DE is a need too.

I think if they want either Werner or Milliner, they'll have to stay at #5.

12. Miami - Kenny Vaccaro - The secondary is terrible and I think Vaccaro is a good place to start. I think they'll get their WR in free agency.

Strong and deep Safety class suggests this is way too high for Vaccaro.

13. Tampa Bay - Dee Millner - The Bucs have a solid roster but the CB play was absolutely terrible. A bigger corner like Millner will be a big help in their division where they have to face guys like Jones,White,Colston and Graham.
14. Carolina - Deandre Hopkins - Its a close call, but I think he's the best WR in the draft as of right now. They need to give Cam more weapons both for now and in the future when Smith is gone. They can get their DT in round 2.

Right now Hopkins is the 3rd WR in the rankings, now a sensational Combine might change that but that hasn't happened as yet.

15. New Orleans - Eric Fisher - I think they might end up letting Bushrod walk and Fisher would be a good fit at LT for them. He can hold up as a pass protector in that system.

LT's never enter FA in their prime, never, never, never, so this pick makes no sense to me.

16. St.Louis - Keenan Allen - They still need more weapons for Bradford. They may even lose Amendola. I haven't given up on Quick, but that shouldn't prevent them from taking another WR.
17. Pittsburgh - Jonathan Hankins - They need a NT of the future and Hankins is a beast in the middle. He'll be a great fit in a Steeler defense.
18. Dallas - Eric Reid - Dallas has had terrrible safeties for as long as I can remember now and a center field type like Reid is exactly what they need. Its a good fit for Kiffin's D and it allows their talented CBs to be more aggressive.

They are switching to a Cover 2 defense so a Safety is a possibility but I think Jerry Jones will go OL.

19. Giants - Margus Hunt - He'd be a nice Tuck replacement as an athletic pass rusher from both inside and out. The Giants' success with JPP gives them the confidence to take Hunt here.

I think Lance Johnson LT, is too good to pass on here for a player who is clearly a project. Just my opinion.

20. Chicago - Barrett Jones - Chicago has to upgrade the OL with this pick, period. There are 3-4 spots where Jones could end up depending on what else the Bears do.

Not a 1st rounder IMO.

21. Cincinatti - Tyler Eifert - Gresham is terrible and Dalton needs more help. Eifert is a very nice underneath option to take advantage of the double teams Green draws.

I have to disagree about Gresham, so TE looks odd to me.

22. St.Louis - Matt Elam - They fixed the CB spot but the safeties are still terrible. Elam is a playmaker.
23. Baltimore - Alec Ogletree - He helps replace Lewis and gives them a dimension they lack at the ILB position with his athleticism and coverage abilities.
24. Indy - Dion Jordan - Their pass rushers are getting old, they need some fresh blood at that 3-4 OLB spot.

I think Jordan is going a lot higher than this, maybe even top 10-12.

25. Minnesota - Cordarelle Patterson - He's exactly the type of big, fast target they need to find this offseason.
26. Seattle - Shariff Floyd - They need some talent on the DL or they are going to have trouble maintaining such a strong defense going forward. Floyd can play some DE and DT for them if needed.
27. Green Bay - Zach Ertz - Finley has to go due to his play and his salary. Ertz is a nice fit as an NFC North TE. He'll help Rodgers with both his blocking and receiving.
28. San Francisco - Sheldon Richardson - Smith's injury bring to light their lack of depth on the DL.

Another guy I think goes a lot higher, no worse than top 15.

[b]29. Houston - Jonathan Cooper - They could use some OL help after letting a few good ones go last year and Cooper's athleticism is a nice fit for that system.
30. Denver - Jonathan Banks - Bailey can't play forever and Porter didn't really work out. Banks is a bit of a steal here due to the depth of defensive talent in this draft.
31. Atlanta - Ezekial Ansah - He's raw but he could end up being a pretty special player. Abraham is old as dirt and they need more pass rush even with him.
32. New England - Xavier Rhodes - They need more talent at CB even if they keep Talib.
Interesting mock, sure would be nice if it fell like that for Detroit but with Backus near the end, Joeckle who is a mile ahead of the rest in the rankings, would be a very tough pass for Mayhew.
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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Some of your points I agree on. I don't think Millner and Werner will fall that far, but its all circumstantial in this case. Werner won't have the eye popping combine numbers and might slip just a bit.

I strongly disagree that 12 is too high for Vaccaro. I think that's his floor. He's the Mark Barron of this draft.

I just don't see the Lions going OT. You make a fair point, but they are just too desperate for defense. They can cover OT pretty solidly with Reiff and Cherilus.

I agree that Glennon isn't a perfect fit for KC. I will probably not do another mock where they don't take Geno. I'm starting to think its a lock unless something goes drastically wrong. I disagree very strongly that Glennon didn't help himself at the senior bowl though. He was by most reports the most impressive QB there. He has a good amount of starts in a relatively pro style offense, he had a terrible supporting cast, he has near elite arm talent and a good head on his shoulders. He won't make it past Arizona at the worst. I don't think Philly takes a QB that isn't Geno in the 1st.

I'm not a Jordan fan. I see Manny Lawson. We'll see how he does through the rest of the process, but he's very raw to me and I don't see him being a 10 sack guy at any point in his career.

RIchardson probalby won't fall that far, but there are a lot of DTs and it depends what position teams go for.

I know the Jets need offense, but they live and breath defense. They have to make sure they are right on that side of the ball IMO. Fix offense elsewhere. I think you'll see them snag a free agent WR and a RB or 2 later in the draft. QB will probably have to wait until next year.

New Orleans has a lot of money invested in their OL, so Bushrod might be a tough sign. I don't think Fisher will fall that far after the senior bowl though.
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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I quit reading after Glennon
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