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Old 01-27-2013, 01:18 PM    (permalink
SolidGold
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The game itself isn't as important as the practices which is why most scouts and personnel men leave on Wed/Thursday of senior bowl week. The whole point of the Senior Bowl is to let talent evaluators get an up close look at the prospects. The game itself is minimal in importance.

Scouts see a player at the senior bowl and if they are interested they go back and revisit the game tape.

For the guy who said Nassib was a one year wonder - he actually has a pretty solid career as a 3 year starter.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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Some great OL prospect is gonna fall. It's just a #s game. I don't see 5 OL going in the top 15. I hope not at least. I want 1 of them to fall.

I'm hoping Warmack falls. Lane Johnson is gonna go before him which will push him back.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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Double post

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Old 01-27-2013, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
EJ Manuel does not have athleticism similar to Colin Kaepernick.

He's nearly a physical clone of Jason Campbell when he came out of Auburn. Build, arm strength, mobility, intangibles, sterling rep off the field.

My problem with Manuel is that all of his pieces don't go together to make a dominant QB, or at least they didn't on the college level.
It's never good when a QB like Manuel who plays with the offensive skill position talent annually put on the field by FSU disappears during games.

It has nothing to do with EJ's intelligence since he's generally a smart guy, I just don't get the sense he has a great natural feel for the position.

EJ Manuel's ceiling IMO in the NFL is adequate, unspectacular starter, never a dominant, pro bowl caliber player in the pros.

I don't know how you could compare him to Kaepernick other than height.
CK was a guy who was rumored to have 4.3-4.4 speed at Nevada with a bomb arm and the run skills of a WR. That's not EJ, or anyone for that matter.

I'm total agreement.....almost. I think if Manuel lands in the right spot and he's a backup first and he sits and is allowed to develop for 2+ years, he could be a very good starting QB. But in no way do I see CK when I've watched him play. He actually reminds me a bit of Flacco and I would say that is he ceiling. Reminds me a bit of Josh Freeman also. I've watchd him since HS and I saw the tools but I never came away throughouly impressed from any one performance. Like you said, he never looked like a natural in the pocket. I always thought he was kind of robotic in his drops and his footwork, despite being a athletic guy. He's definitely not first round talent. Its just a pretty weak class really.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
If i'm going to guess i'd say high 4.5s, Manuel is a good athlete but he's more Daunte Culpepper or even Jake Locker. Jake is fast but his speed doesn't translate to an advantage on the field like say a Russell Wilson, at least not yet.
This. It wouldn't shock me if he ran anywhere from 4.55-4.65....which is still very good. People forget CK ony ran a 4.53. People just generally assumed he was faster and just didn't time well.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Some great OL prospect is gonna fall. It's just a #s game. I don't see 5 OL going in the top 15. I hope not at least. I want 1 of them to fall.

I'm hoping Warmack falls. Lane Johnson is gonna go before him which will push him back.
I agree, thinking Joeckel and Fisher are locked into the top 15 for sure then it gets tricky. Warmack has elite talent at a position teams tend to neglect in the top half of round one while Lane Johnson has elite athleticism at a prime position. At the end of the day I think Cooper gets the short end of the stick even though he would be the best interior lineman in a lot of drafts. I think Warford may have played his way into the late first round after a very good showing this week. It will be interesting to see who continues to shine through the combine/ prodays.

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Old 01-27-2013, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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I am re-watching the game right now and a couple quick observations,

Eric Fisher, is a stud and I mean that I have never seen a more impressive performance in the Senior Bowl in my life. He is dominating players who are projected as high picks. He is going top 10 and I would not be shocked if he went #1 in this QB deficient draft.

Larry Warford, is incredibly powerful and he moves better than I saw all week in the pass game. What I was really impressed with was that he stays on blocks and finished even if he loses his man, you do not often see that with big men.

Kawann Short, he is so powerful and disruptive he stood out in his ability to reset the line of scrimmage.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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I have to go back and look at Warford again, but my first impression wasn't that great. I wasn't thrilled with his pass protection. Ducked his head several times. I can see him getting pancaked in the NFL if he doesn't clean up his technique.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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I have to go back and look at Warford again, but my first impression wasn't that great. I wasn't thrilled with his pass protection. Ducked his head several times. I can see him getting pancaked in the NFL if he doesn't clean up his technique.
He has the tools to be solid in pass protection, has ability to slide for big guy and has the ability to squat against the bull rush. I did see him lunge a couple of times when disciplined he won battles in the phone booth more times then not.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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He has the tools to be solid in pass protection, has ability to slide for big guy and has the ability to squat against the bull rush. I did see him lunge a couple of times when disciplined he won battles in the phone booth more times then not.
I gotta see more of him. I want my OGs to pull and have some speed to em, I'm not sure yet if he can do that. I view him as a 3rd rounder as of now.

I gotta study him more though. My opinion could change. He's a little too jiggly for my liking.

Definitely like him in a power scheme.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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I have to go back and look at Warford again, but my first impression wasn't that great. I wasn't thrilled with his pass protection. Ducked his head several times. I can see him getting pancaked in the NFL if he doesn't clean up his technique.
The one thing I don't think you need to worry about is him getting pancaked the guy is a fire hydrant.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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I gotta see more of him. I want my OGs to pull and have some speed to em, I'm not sure yet if he can do that. I view him as a 3rd rounder as of now.

I gotta study him more though. My opinion could change. He's a little too jiggly for my liking.

Definitely like him in a power scheme.
He has the ability to get out in space by no means is he a Johnathan Cooper but he doesn't lumber. I agree that he has a good about of "bad weight' but that can be taken care of with a year in a strength and conditioning program. Has potential to profile as more then a mauler but that is what he is at this point and would be best suited for a power scheme. Has day one starting skill and plus potential in my opinion.

Im dissapointed that Fluker wasn't able to participate, I wanted to see him get a look at guard.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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If Ansah is on the board at #15, I think the Saints will be hard-pressed to not take him as a 3-4 OLB. He was extremely impressive during the game.

Side Note: I was sitting next to a couple of Mormon boy scouts and troop leaders at the game and every time Ansah made a player they would all stand up at the same time and shout "Ziggy!"
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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How much of a difference is there from Zaviar Gooden to last years "freak" athletic OLB Zach Brown?
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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I have to go back and look at Warford again, but my first impression wasn't that great. I wasn't thrilled with his pass protection. Ducked his head several times. I can see him getting pancaked in the NFL if he doesn't clean up his technique.
I watched Warford every play. He ducked his head once and got lit up by Short I believe. He also let go of a block. Still not sure why he did that but it was nothing from a technical standpoint that was wrong.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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Some great OL prospect is gonna fall. It's just a #s game. I don't see 5 OL going in the top 15. I hope not at least. I want 1 of them to fall.

I'm hoping Warmack falls. Lane Johnson is gonna go before him which will push him back.
You really want to watch Warmack play twice a year for Dallas?
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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If Manuel runs 4.5 he has the worst game speed of any player I have ever seen. He is really good at stumbling for 3 steps and falling forward for 8 yards at the college level. That's it. He will never have a run like Kaepernick's against GB.
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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If Manuel runs 4.5 he has the worst game speed of any player I have ever seen. He is really good at stumbling for 3 steps and falling forward for 8 yards at the college level. That's it. He will never have a run like Kaepernick's against GB.
Agreed. Looked more like Leftwich than Kaepernick
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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The game itself isn't as important as the practices which is why most scouts and personnel men leave on Wed/Thursday of senior bowl week. The whole point of the Senior Bowl is to let talent evaluators get an up close look at the prospects. The game itself is minimal in importance.

Scouts see a player at the senior bowl and if they are interested they go back and revisit the game tape.

For the guy who said Nassib was a one year wonder - he actually has a pretty solid career as a 3 year starter.
He was not talked about until his year. Also, a pretty solid career does not warrant a first round selection.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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I agree with the Jason Campbell comparisons with Manuel. Almost the same exact rise this time of year, too. EJ is slightly faster, but it doesn't show up on the field that often. There's just something...missing with those two. Write down their strengths and they look like franchise QBs. Watch them on the field and they look like 4th round backups.

Both have plus athleticism for the position, can run if they have to but are pass first, big arms, very smart, leaders, high character, prototypical size for the position...

Like with Campbell when he came out, I just get the overall feeling that Manuel will never put it all together to be even an average starter in the NFL.

I like Manuel to the Eagles in the 4th Round.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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I gotta see more of him. I want my OGs to pull and have some speed to em, I'm not sure yet if he can do that. I view him as a 3rd rounder as of now.

I gotta study him more though. My opinion could change. He's a little too jiggly for my liking.

Definitely like him in a power scheme.
I agree, he is way more suited for a power type running attack, pulling will never be his strong point. IMO, he is still a late 2nd / round 3 type.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:15 PM    (permalink
SolidGold
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He was not talked about until his year. Also, a pretty solid career does not warrant a first round selection.
Plenty of QBs were not talked about until their senior year. Two that pop into mind immediatley are Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan. That argument holds no weight.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:30 PM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
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Plenty of QBs were not talked about until their senior year. Two that pop into mind immediatley are Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan. That argument holds no weight.
Hm. I think people were talking about Matt Ryan's pro upside for at least two seasons. He was one of the best QBs in the ACC during his career and made BC relevant.

And I think Flacco was on people's radar because he transferred from Michigan and people were interested to see how he'd perform against lower level competition.

Less so with Flacco being a one year wonder, but I wouldn't say that was the case for Matt Ryan.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:30 PM    (permalink
princefielder28
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Hm. I think people were talking about Matt Ryan's pro upside for at least two seasons. He was one of the best QBs in the ACC during his career and made BC relevant.

And I think Flacco was on people's radar because he transferred from Michigan and people were interested to see how he'd perform against lower level competition.

Less so with Flacco being a one year wonder, but I wouldn't say that was the case for Matt Ryan.
just to be accurate, Flacco transferred from Pitt
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:36 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Plenty of QBs were not talked about until their senior year. Two that pop into mind immediatley are Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan. That argument holds no weight.
Let me rephrase. A pretty solid career alone absent a display of translatable NFL skills does not warrant a first round selection. That's your boy Nassib. And by the way, Ryan was a known commodity so I don't know what you are bringing him up for. His record as a three year starter was 25-7 and he won three bowl games.
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