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Old 01-29-2013, 09:10 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Default Biggest Freak DE Prospect in the Last Couple Decades?

Peppers? Merriman? Kearse? Freeney? JPP? Johnson? Which one of these guys put up the best overall combine numbers with some consideration of their size? I think my vote goes to Ware.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:32 AM    (permalink
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He got nicknamed "The Freak" for a reason.

In my time, it's probably Mario Williams.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:33 AM    (permalink
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If you are talking just prospects and leave out what they have done in the NFL it has got to be Julius Peppers. His measurables for a 6'7 283 pound man are just ridiculous. He is a bit older and less athletic now so people are forgetting how freakish he was early in his career. He was dropping into coverage better than most 240 pound linebackers. He was not your typical DE/LB that weights between 250-265 yet he was more fluid than any of those guys. He had the powerful hands and strenght of most DTs too boot.

IMO Julius Peppers has never lived up to his God given talents. There are very few players in the NFL that work hard enough to get every last ounce of talent out of what they were given such as Walter Payton and Jerry Rice. If Julius Peppers had the same work ethic he could have been the 2nd coming of Reggie White.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TitanHope View Post
He got nicknamed "The Freak" for a reason.

In my time, it's probably Mario Williams.
For his time he was a freak, yes, but since then many have passed his physical measurables. He was 6'6 262 and ran a 4.57. Since then there have been several defensive lineman put up better athletic numbers.

Oh J.J. Watt. Forget about my Julius Peppers comments. J.J. Watt put on a show at the combine and dominated the drills better than most DE/LBs even being 6'6 290 pounds. He put up explosition numbers that are unmatched by men his size and most men 30+ pounds lighter. His cone drill and shuttle drills for a 290 pounder were borderline unreal.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:02 AM    (permalink
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For his time he was a freak, yes, but since then many have passed his physical measurables. He was 6'6 262 and ran a 4.57. Since then there have been several defensive lineman put up better athletic numbers.
Are you talking about Kearse or Williams? Because without looking them up, I don't believe that h/w matches either player.

Quote:
Oh J.J. Watt. Forget about my Julius Peppers comments. J.J. Watt put on a show at the combine and dominated the drills better than most DE/LBs even being 6'6 290 pounds. He put up explosition numbers that are unmatched by men his size and most men 30+ pounds lighter. His cone drill and shuttle drills for a 290 pounder were borderline unreal.
I forget how well Watt did, but he's certainly a monster physically and his strength is worth accolade. Apart from that, I hope you're not letting his NFL success dictate your view. Watt had great tape, and if he put on a combine performance that rivals the best going back decades, then he's a Top 3 pick. Instead, he went 11th. Perhaps I'm just misremembering, but I'd choose Pep between the two.

Also, didn't Peppers get busted for PED's at one point?
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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Tons of crazy combine guys I mean look at Vernon Gholston. 6'3" 266 lbs and he ran a 4.58 with 41 inch vert and 37 reps. Aside from that I mean you have one of those types of prospects in every draft it is just a lot easier to remember the ones who continue on to be solid players as opposed to busts.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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I think many have forgotten about Jevon "the Freak" Kearse because he is an older player now and injuries unfortunately shortened his career.

Kearse measured in at 6047 262 at the combine, I'm having a hard time finding accurate combine results but I'm finding a 40 anywhere between 4.48 and 4.58. His 10 yd split was a 1.61, his 20yd was 2.67, 37 inch vertical, and 4.24 shuttle. 122 broad jump.

Ware and Kearse are very similar athletes, Ware at 6040 251 ran a 4.56, with a 10yd of 1.62, 20 of 2.71 and 38.5 vertical, both did 122 broad jump, Ware did 4.07 shuttle.

At Wares pro-day he ran a 4.53 while at Kearse's he ran a 4.43 also posting a 40 inch vertical. Kearse posted the same if not better in nearly every category despite being 7/8th of an inch and 11 pounds heavier at these.

The real thing that made Kearse a freak was his arms and hands. At 6047 he had an 86" wingspan, so his wingspan was as wide as Shaq is tall. Multiple reports say his hands were in the range of 12 inches. Arm length of 35.5(Gil Brandt says 14 but I went with the one I saw most commonly).

Ware on the other hand had 34" arms, and 10" hands. I couldn't find reliable sources for a wingspan.

Let's not forget Kearse started at Safety in college before moving to OLB then OLB/DE and eventually DE in the NFL.

The 3-4 defense was not real popular when Kearse came out, and he fell in the draft some due to this. However, if he had played his career in a 3-4 I think we would have seen him post similar numbers to what DeMarcus Ware has been posting, if not better
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CrossOfDeath View Post
For his time he was a freak, yes, but since then many have passed his physical measurables. He was 6'6 262 and ran a 4.57. Since then there have been several defensive lineman put up better athletic numbers.

Oh J.J. Watt. Forget about my Julius Peppers comments. J.J. Watt put on a show at the combine and dominated the drills better than most DE/LBs even being 6'6 290 pounds. He put up explosition numbers that are unmatched by men his size and most men 30+ pounds lighter. His cone drill and shuttle drills for a 290 pounder were borderline unreal.
Huh? Mario Williams was 290 lbs as well.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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I think many have forgotten about Jevon "the Freak" Kearse because he is an older player now and injuries unfortunately shortened his career.

Kearse measured in at 6047 262 at the combine, I'm having a hard time finding accurate combine results but I'm finding a 40 anywhere between 4.48 and 4.58. His 10 yd split was a 1.61, his 20yd was 2.67, 37 inch vertical, and 4.24 shuttle. 122 broad jump.

Ware and Kearse are very similar athletes, Ware at 6040 251 ran a 4.56, with a 10yd of 1.62, 20 of 2.71 and 38.5 vertical, both did 122 broad jump, Ware did 4.07 shuttle.

At Wares pro-day he ran a 4.53 while at Kearse's he ran a 4.43 also posting a 40 inch vertical. Kearse posted the same if not better in nearly every category despite being 7/8th of an inch and 11 pounds heavier at these.

The real thing that made Kearse a freak was his arms and hands. At 6047 he had an 86" wingspan, so his wingspan was as wide as Shaq is tall. Multiple reports say his hands were in the range of 12 inches. Arm length of 35.5(Gil Brandt says 14 but I went with the one I saw most commonly).

Ware on the other hand had 34" arms, and 10" hands. I couldn't find reliable sources for a wingspan.

Let's not forget Kearse started at Safety in college before moving to OLB then OLB/DE and eventually DE in the NFL.

The 3-4 defense was not real popular when Kearse came out, and he fell in the draft some due to this. However, if he had played his career in a 3-4 I think we would have seen him post similar numbers to what DeMarcus Ware has been posting, if not better
I have often pondered what he would have been like in a 3-4 where he was freed up a bit. They way he could chase down players at times defied logical.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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Tons of crazy combine guys I mean look at Vernon Gholston. 6'3" 266 lbs and he ran a 4.58 with 41 inch vert and 37 reps. Aside from that I mean you have one of those types of prospects in every draft it is just a lot easier to remember the ones who continue on to be solid players as opposed to busts.
Oh yeah, almost forgot old Vernon, the non-football playing son of a body builder.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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Mario Williams

6'6 290lbs
4.66 40yd
40.5 inch vert
35 reps
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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No one mentioning Freeney running UNDER 4.5 at 266 pounds? 37" VJ to match?
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Julius Peppers, regardless of what a straight line number says, is a substantially more fluid and coordinated athlete than guys like Super Mario. We've seen him line up at WR and drop into coverage and look as fluid as skill position players.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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DE/OLB Connor Barwin.
6'4 256#
4.66 combine.
4.47 pro day.
40.5 inch vertical.
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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DE/OLB Connor Barwin.
6'4 256#
4.66 combine.
4.47 pro day.
40.5 inch vertical.
Yeah, I forgot about him. Unreal vertical.
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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Gholston and Chris long dazzled the combine, god damn i was so in love with gholston lol

has to be peppers though....honorable mention to JPP just being freakishly athletic with arms down to his ankles
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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Gholston and Chris long dazzled the combine, god damn i was so in love with gholston lol

has to be peppers though....honorable mention to JPP just being freakishly athletic with arms down to his ankles
No Kearse? He literally looked like something other than human. Also, I am proud to say that me and Todd McShay were all over Gholston being a BUST. The guy NEVER made a play outside of his immediate area.
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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If we're throwing out pro day numbers Kearse was a 4.43 at 262 pounds with a 40 inch vertical
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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Julius Peppers, regardless of what a straight line number says, is a substantially more fluid and coordinated athlete than guys like Super Mario. We've seen him line up at WR and drop into coverage and look as fluid as skill position players.
Yes, that was the big difference between those two. Ware was also incredibly fluid and coordinated albeit at a smaller size.
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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Kearse was before my time as a draftnik, so I cant comment on his workouts.

Im going with D-Ware on this one. I think its important to take into consideration how these guys athletic skillsets translates into production on the field, and if you combine those two things Im taking Ware over Peppers at #2 and JPP at #3.

Just look at D-Ware:
6ī4, 261 lbs. (Couldnīt find exact arm length)

Just for fun I tried to compare his workout numbers from the Combine with a CB. By random thought i picked Richard Sherman (6ī3, 195 lbs) from the Seahawks.

At the Combine Ware ran the 40 in 4.55 secs. Sherman ran a 4.53.
In the 3-cone drill Ware ran a 6.83, Sherman ran it at 6.82.
In the 20 yd SS Ware ran a 4.06 and Sherman ran a 4.31.
In the vertical jump Ware jumped 38,5ī, Sherman jumped 38ī.
(Furthermore Ware put up a 28 reps in the bench press)

Thats insane imo.

And look how he put that amazing athleticism to work in the NFL:
111 career sacks. (.5 less than Peppers, who have been in the league 11 seasons compared to Wares 8.)
7 straight season with 10+ sacks.
4 All Pro first team, and 3 All Pro 2nd team selections.
2 times NFL sacks leader.
1 NFC DPOY.
Selection for the NFL 2000s all decade team. (Peppers also made this team.)

This guy really should have a nickname that includes "Freak"...
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SunTzu_22 View Post
Kearse was before my time as a draftnik, so I cant comment on his workouts.

Im going with D-Ware on this one. I think its important to take into consideration how these guys athletic skillsets translates into production on the field, and if you combine those two things Im taking Ware over Peppers at #2 and JPP at #3.

Just look at D-Ware:
6ī4, 261 lbs. (Couldnīt find exact arm length)

Just for fun I tried to compare his workout numbers from the Combine with a CB. By random thought i picked Richard Sherman (6ī3, 195 lbs) from the Seahawks.

At the Combine Ware ran the 40 in 4.55 secs. Sherman ran a 4.53.
In the 3-cone drill Ware ran a 6.83, Sherman ran it at 6.82.
In the 20 yd SS Ware ran a 4.06 and Sherman ran a 4.31.
In the vertical jump Ware jumped 38,5ī, Sherman jumped 38ī.
(Furthermore Ware put up a 28 reps in the bench press)

Thats insane imo.

And look how he put that amazing athleticism to work in the NFL:
111 career sacks. (.5 less than Peppers, who have been in the league 11 seasons compared to Wares 8.)
7 straight season with 10+ sacks.
4 All Pro first team, and 3 All Pro 2nd team selections.
2 times NFL sacks leader.
1 NFC DPOY.
Selection for the NFL 2000s all decade team. (Peppers also made this team.)

This guy really should have a nickname that includes "Freak"...
That's great and Ware is a great choice; however, the question pretained to players when they were draft prospects, not after they were NFL players.

But I do have question for everyone. I wonder how Bruce Smith's numbers and measurables coming out stack up to those of the freaks of the last couple decades?
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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Careful with using electronic times versus watch times. Most of the older guys being mentioned had the luxury of being timed on a stopwatch. For hand-times round up to the nearest tenth then add 0.24.

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The conversion is taken in this way: hand held time shall first be rounded up to the slower one-tenth of a second (10.42 will be recorded as 10.5) and then the conversion factor of 0.24 seconds is added to provide the equivalent time hand held to electronic.
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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That's great and Ware is a great choice; however, the question pretained to players when they were draft prospects, not after they were NFL players.

But I do have question for everyone. I wonder how Bruce Smith's numbers and measurables coming out stack up to those of the freaks of the last couple decades?
I know, just thought I would bring production in to the equation, so we donīt have to talk about Vernon Gholston...
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:22 PM    (permalink
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I know, just thought I would bring production in to the equation, so we donīt have to talk about Vernon Gholston...
LOL, good point!
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:34 PM    (permalink
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Combine numbers aside, nobody could move like Peppers at that size.
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