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Old 01-28-2013, 12:53 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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It's all about guaranteed money. Mario got 50 million guaranteed. That means Revis wants around the same. 50 mill guaranteed over 5 years is 10 mill per season.

That's actually doable. Fluff up the contract with incentives to make it look better than it is, give him his 50 mill guaranteed and it's not the end of the world.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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It's all about guaranteed money. Mario got 50 million guaranteed. That means Revis wants around the same. 50 mill guaranteed over 5 years is 10 mill per season.

That's actually doable. Fluff up the contract with incentives to make it look better than it is, give him his 50 mill guaranteed and it's not the end of the world.
I just have a feeling whatever deal Revis gets, he'll want to rework it in like a year.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:58 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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I just have a feeling whatever deal Revis gets, he'll want to rework it in like a year.
Yup. This dude is essentially playing on 1 year contracts bc he wants top dollar every year of his prime. Or every 2 years.

He's a doucher, but he's a talented doucher. He is already 27, he can do this nonsense for another 2 years maybe, then it's over for him. So I give him his cash, and call his bluff when he gets old.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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The trouble is that for the 1st time in a long time, the cap won't be going up and teams are stuck with that fact. In the past, teams way over the cap gambled that the increase in cap $$$'s would get them close to to the point where they only had to cut a few substitutes to get under the cap. that is no longer the case which is why every high paid player whose contract is up will get this kind of scrutiny.
Only the Jet's management team knows whether they can afford Revis no matter how good he is and who they will have to cut to get under the cap if they retain him. It will be strictly a business decision. It won't matter what Jet fans want.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't mind having Revis for a year a la Deion Sanders. Then he can leave with his huge contract demands.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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I don't really know how people assess these contracts in relation to one another. All contracts are inflating, so the same level of QB that got a contract three years ago would get a better deal now. For a shutdown corner in the realm of Revis, so long as he stays healthy, is really worth whatever money he'd be asking for because he makes good on every dollar and doesn't get into anything off the field. Sure, in general a QB, or maybe a WR, LT, or DE may make more, but this is a different sort of talent and deserves to be assessed differently. The difference between 12 mil/year and 16 mil/year is pretty negligible as long as he's producing on the field. He's an all-world talent really dependent on no one and should be assessed as such.

The only reason this should be up for debate is because the Jets are in a financial bind with a roster very devoid of talent. They have multiple holes to fill and would have to do quite a bit of rearranging on their roster to make things work for the short-term to handle such a contract. If they have trust in their scouting department, after acquiring some draft picks, they could really flesh out their roster and, while they might not get another all-world corner, they could certainly find some all-pro's, pro bowlers, or high-level starters. However, if they could trade Cromartie, that would actually be more beneficial right now cap-wise, and talent-wise, would probably make a lot more sense. They just can't tie up so much cap into the CB position. They can get by with a rotating door of average CBs opposite Revis, but they need more talent on the team. And, speaking of which, that's why they shouldn't be looking at the QB position early on in this draft (or, IMO, at all). They should certainly look into getting someone else there to provide competition, but probably not through the draft/at the expense of draft picks. Any QB would fail in that current situation, and there wouldn't be no point in stashing a QB for a year or so to be groomed because 1) for the short-term, that would be a wasted pick as they wouldn't be starting, and 2) the coaching staff might be completely revamped next year anyway so they might not get a head start on learning a system at all.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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I just have a feeling whatever deal Revis gets, he'll want to rework it in like a year.
This may have been somewhat in jest, but he doesn't ask for a new contract constantly. He only asks for one when he's being underpaid. His last contract was extremely front-loaded, so now he isn't getting very much. Granted, he did sign the contract and knew what he was getting into, but he probably wants "fair" dollar to what he is currently playing at. I would assume that a contract following the natural progression of a top-level, aging CB would suffice as his final contract with the Jets (or wherever he went). Personally, I would make contracts with a little less than what he's asking for as the base, then put in easily attainable (for him) escalators throughout so that so long as he's performing as he should, there should be no issue, and in the case of some sort of injury or deterioration in play, the team wouldn't be hit quite as hard.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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This may have been somewhat in jest, but he doesn't ask for a new contract constantly. He only asks for one when he's being underpaid. His last contract was extremely front-loaded, so now he isn't getting very much. Granted, he did sign the contract and knew what he was getting into, but he probably wants "fair" dollar to what he is currently playing at. I would assume that a contract following the natural progression of a top-level, aging CB would suffice as his final contract with the Jets (or wherever he went). Personally, I would make contracts with a little less than what he's asking for as the base, then put in easily attainable (for him) escalators throughout so that so long as he's performing as he should, there should be no issue, and in the case of some sort of injury or deterioration in play, the team wouldn't be hit quite as hard.
The market is always going to be changing though. I think it's just weird that not every other high profiled player is demanding a reworking of their contract every five minutes.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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The market is always going to be changing though. I think it's just weird that not every other high profiled player is demanding a reworking of their contract every five minutes.
Oh, sure. He's definitely got an issue. I'm just saying that I don't believe he'll be asking for a new contract when he's being paid near the top, but I could very easily be wrong. I think his salary right now is 6 mil or something, so I think in that range he probably figures he's being so underpaid that he should be compensated, and he's possibly correct.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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The problem with how contracts in the past were worked is that many of them reached numbers way higher than they really should have because the NFL cap was going up significantly year over year. In today's NFL, that's simply not true.

I don't know how long it will be before the cap starts rising significantly again, but it might be a while. When it happens, Revis will probably want his deal reworked (or be retired) because other corners will start to see insane numbers again.

I think the 6 years/50 million guaranteed with 60 million total is a good idea. Maybe you make it look like 90 million or something with incentives he will never reach (like make the pro bowl and win super bowl MVP while playing fewer than 20% of the snaps).
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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Just a couple of thoughts from what I have read here...

1) There have been a few people suggesting that the Jets trade Cromartie, and someone said that his cap number was in the $10.5 million range. I don't think that trade is much of a possibility, even if the Jets were to take less in compensation. No one is looking for a veteran corner at that kind of price. They are looking for young corners for a mil or two.

2) Revis has complained about being underpaid throughout his career. It's almost as if he signs a deal with the 3rd year being $5 million with no bonuses and says to himself, "That's when I will throw a fuss." So to suggest that, if the Jets give him a great big contract now he will stop complaining for the rest of his career seems very naive to me. He has shown with absolute consistency that he will always want top dollar for his play. Also, I think that to think he will not expect to be the top paid player once he enters his 30's is also naive. Players that reach such a high level of excellence will always consider themselves to be the exception to the rule; I don't see any way he agrees to play for less money at 32 and says, "Yeah, I'm okay with $10 million. I'm getting old."

3) This is more of a question than a statement...is it possible that waiting until next year to free up money to sign him will be too late? I thought I read somewhere that he has a clause in his contract that he cannot be franchised. That is quite a risk to take if you plan on waiting until next year to cut guys and sign him, especially if he fully rehabs and gets back to his all-world self. If you trade him now and get (potentially) 3 decent picks for him, you at least have something tangible. If you wait until next year and he walks, you get a 3rd rounder in 2015 and a sour taste in your mouth until 2020.

Also, if he wants $16 million this year, what will his asking price be next year? And if he is scheduled to make $6 million this year, will he even play the year out? I don't know the specifics of his recent demands or where his "current status" sits.


All in all, if it were my team I would trade him if I had a decent offer, regardless of how good he is. So tired of hearing how he wants to get paid. How much has he already gotten in his career?
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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Mario Williams' contract was essentially a 3 year/50 million guaranteed deal, with an annual team option for 16 million/year for the 3 years after that. It's not a bad deal when you break it down like that. His guaranteed money was all front loaded.

And Mario would have gotten 100 million for several teams. Buffalo didn't overpay - they just paid top market value. Guys like Mario Williams and Revis don't hit the wide open free agent market very often.

If Revis hits the free agent market (which I doubt he does), he'll become the highest paid defensive player.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:08 PM    (permalink
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Mario Williams' contract was essentially a 3 year/50 million guaranteed deal, with an annual team option for 16 million/year for the 3 years after that. It's not a bad deal when you break it down like that. His guaranteed money was all front loaded.

And Mario would have gotten 100 million for several teams. Buffalo didn't overpay - they just paid top market value. Guys like Mario Williams and Revis don't hit the wide open free agent market very often.

If Revis hits the free agent market (which I doubt he does), he'll become the highest paid defensive player.
Mario Williams was never close to as good as Revis is. Also for what Williams has done in buffalo they definitely overpayed.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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What kind of incentive?
Revis believes he is the best CB, no? I would give him a 9 mil a year deal with incentives based on opponents catches/yards against him and other stats that would deal with him. I really didnt think this through since I was thinking how offensive skill players would work better.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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What about a Matt Flynn and Kam Chancellor for Revis?
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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What about a Matt Flynn and Kam Chancellor for Revis?
A safety that's going to get a big contract after the season and a bad QB? Sounds shady to me. Seahawks don't need another outside corner, anyway.

Bad deal for both sides.
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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A safety that's going to get a big contract after the season and a bad QB? Sounds shady to me. Seahawks don't need another outside corner, anyway.

Bad deal for both sides.
How would that be a bad deal for the Seahawks? A back up quarterback and a decent safety for one of the best defensive players in the league. The Seahawks would take that deal every day of the week without hesitation. Obviously it's never going to happen though, the Jets would be absolutely ******** to accept that.
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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How would that be a bad deal for the Seahawks? A back up quarterback and a decent safety for one of the best defensive players in the league. The Seahawks would take that deal every day of the week without hesitation. Obviously it's never going to happen though, the Jets would be absolutely ******** to accept that.
Chancellor isn't decent. He's been very good.

The Seahawks open a big hole at SS and gain a CB when they already have a top 3 CB tandem in the NFL. They're creating a need in order to bury a good corner on the depth chart. If they're trading away a starter, it should be for something they actually need, like a pass rusher.

This would be like the Ravens trading off Anquan Boldin for a running back when Ray Rice is already there.
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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Chancellor isn't decent. He's been very good.

The Seahawks open a big hole at SS and gain a CB when they already have a top 3 CB tandem in the NFL. They're creating a need in order to bury a good corner on the depth chart. If they're trading away a starter, it should be for something they actually need, like a pass rusher.

This would be like the Ravens trading off Anquan Boldin for a running back when Ray Rice is already there.
Revis and Sherman is a little different to Sherman and Browner. The two best cornerbacks in the league playing opposite each other. They wouldn't even need safeties.

And it's not really similar to that situation at all, Ray Rice is one of the best running backs in the league. You can only upgrade on him by a small margin. Revis > Browner is a hell of a lot different to Adrian Peterson > Ray Rice, for example. And also just because Browner would be the 3rd CB doesn't mean he wouldn't play. A nickel corner is basically a starter in the NFL. The same couldn't be said for Ray Rice if he was made the #2 back.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Revis and Sherman is a little different to Sherman and Browner. The two best cornerbacks in the league playing opposite each other. They wouldn't even need safeties.

And it's not really similar to that situation at all, Ray Rice is one of the best running backs in the league. You can only upgrade on him by a small margin. Revis > Browner is a hell of a lot different to Adrian Peterson > Ray Rice, for example. And also just because Browner would be the 3rd CB doesn't mean he wouldn't play. A nickel corner is basically a starter in the NFL. The same couldn't be said for Ray Rice if he was made the #2 back.
Browner graded out as the #9 cover corner in all of football last season. So they're giving up a pro bowl safety to move from the #9 CB to a top 2-3 corner...IF he's fully recovered from his ACL injury, which is obviously not guaranteed.

Browner's skill set doesn't really translate to the slot. The outside and slot corner spots are not always interchangeable. Still don't get why they'd create a gaping hole to do that. So they can go from being the #1 defense to...uh, being the #1 defense? It's breaking something unrelated to fix a problem that isn't there.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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Browner graded out as the #9 cover corner in all of football last season. So they're giving up a pro bowl safety to move from the #9 CB to a top 2-3 corner...IF he's fully recovered from his ACL injury, which is obviously not guaranteed.

Browner's skill set doesn't really translate to the slot. The outside and slot corner spots are not always interchangeable. Still don't get why they'd create a gaping hole to do that. So they can go from being the #1 defense to...uh, being the #1 defense? It's breaking something unrelated to fix a problem that isn't there.
Well as I said, the 9th corner to Darrelle Revis is a pretty big gap. And this is 2012. Adrian Peterson just ran for 2000 yards after coming back from an ACL injury that he suffered in the last few weeks of the 2011 season. Revis is going to come back and be just as good as he previously was.

They can do whatever they want with Browner. Trade him for a slot cornerback and a decent safety. It doesn't really matter. They would have Revis and Sherman on the outside. They could completely forget about safety help over the top, what would be the point. And there defense would be better, why it does matter where they were ranked last season?
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:55 PM    (permalink
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Well as I said, the 9th corner to Darrelle Revis is a pretty big gap. And this is 2012. Adrian Peterson just ran for 2000 yards after coming back from an ACL injury that he suffered in the last few weeks of the 2011 season. Revis is going to come back and be just as good as he previously was.

They can do whatever they want with Browner. Trade him for a slot cornerback and a decent safety. It doesn't really matter. They would have Revis and Sherman on the outside. They could completely forget about safety help over the top, what would be the point. And there defense would be better, why it does matter where they were ranked last season?
You're arguing that it's a good idea to lose a pro bowl starter in order to replace a top 10 player with a guy who may or may not even be good next season. Adrian Peterson coming back that quickly from an ACL only to be really good is not the norm...that's why people made a huge deal about it instead of yawning and saying "oh, yeah...ACL, whatever."

The gap between the #9 corner and a guy who might be healthy enough to be a top 10 corner is not a huge gap.

This is a terrible idea, tinkering with something that doesn't need tinkering and turning a position of strength into an empty hole to do it, no less.

Should the Pats trade Jerod Mayo for Tony Gonzalez because he's better than Aaron Hernandez?

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Old 01-29-2013, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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Adrian Peterson coming back that quickly from an ACL only to be really good is not the norm...that's why people made a huge deal about it instead of yawning and saying "oh, yeah...ACL, whatever."
The problem is, people actually HAVE been saying "ACL, whatever" since Peterson came back so quickly.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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You're arguing that it's a good idea to lose a pro bowl starter in order to replace a top 10 player with a guy who may or may not even be good next season. Adrian Peterson coming back that quickly from an ACL only to be really good is not the norm...that's why people made a huge deal about it instead of yawning and saying "oh, yeah...ACL, whatever."

The gap between the #9 corner and a guy who might be healthy enough to be a top 10 corner is not a huge gap.

This is a terrible idea, tinkering with something that doesn't need tinkering and turning a position of strength into an empty hole to do it, no less.

Should the Pats trade Jerod Mayo for Tony Gonzalez because he's better than Aaron Hernandez?
"a guy who might be healthy enough to be a top 10 corner"



What is this I don't even.

And that is another terrible comparison so i'm not even going to bother.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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"a guy who might be healthy enough to be a top 10 corner"



What is this I don't even.

And that is another terrible comparison so i'm not even going to bother.
We don't know how he's going to be now. Like I said, guys coming back that quickly and that good is not the norm. It's happened once.

I don't know how that's a terrible comparison. If anything, it's being generous to you. Mayo is a pro bowl level player. Chancellor is a pro bowl level player. The gap between Gonzalez and Hernandez is probably three times as wide as the one between Browner and a healthy Revis, so...why's it terrible?
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