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Old 01-28-2013, 10:01 AM    (permalink
Prowler
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I'm starting to get into a "why not Eric Fisher?" phase.

CB, DE, OT?

CB: We have a good shot at Trufant or a similar impact player with our 2nd rounder...its easier to find.

DE: Our scheme is basically just getting upfield and straight to the quarterback in the quickest amount of time. We could utilize undersized edge defenders in the middle rounds to accomplish this. We'd ideally have to carry base and speed packages of DEs, but should be fine.

OT: Backus and Gosder are both either one foot out the door or already gone. Reiff is ready to replace one, but he's still relatively unproven. Will we be in a position to draft a top LT anytime soon? Fisher/Sims/Gandy/Nagy/Reiff is a solid line. Elite C/G can be drafted in future late 1st round or later picks. A bonus is Reiff's versatility. He could move inside to guard and do a good job.

So...is it easier to find left tackles, starting corners, or defensive ends?
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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My guess is it is easier to find DE's. Corners are a little easier and LT's might be the hardest.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Prowler View Post
I'm starting to get into a "why not Eric Fisher?" phase.

CB, DE, OT?

CB: We have a good shot at Trufant or a similar impact player with our 2nd rounder...its easier to find.

DE: Our scheme is basically just getting upfield and straight to the quarterback in the quickest amount of time. We could utilize undersized edge defenders in the middle rounds to accomplish this. We'd ideally have to carry base and speed packages of DEs, but should be fine.

OT: Backus and Gosder are both either one foot out the door or already gone. Reiff is ready to replace one, but he's still relatively unproven. Will we be in a position to draft a top LT anytime soon? Fisher/Sims/Gandy/Nagy/Reiff is a solid line. Elite C/G can be drafted in future late 1st round or later picks. A bonus is Reiff's versatility. He could move inside to guard and do a good job.

So...is it easier to find left tackles, starting corners, or defensive ends?
I fully agree that those our the 3 options although if both Backus and Raiola both retire, an OC would become a priority at least by round 3.
We may not like it but if Backus goes, Fisher definitely become a strong possibility as our pick, Stafford must be protected at all costs in our offense, it is the team's top priority even more so than defense.
If Backus plays 1 more season, they go DE/CB whoever has the higher ranking on their board when they pick. Likely a contest between Moore and Milliner although Moore would mean 2 small DE's, Avril/Moore, who are both a liability against the run. Not sure they go that way.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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As far as taking a LT, I suppose it comes down to what we prefer. Cherilus and say, Damontre Moore or Avril and Joeckel/Fisher
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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As far as taking a LT, I suppose it comes down to what we prefer. Cherilus and say, Damontre Moore or Avril and Joeckel/Fisher
I seriously doubt we will have any kind of shot at Joeckel who is clearly the highest rated prospect in this year's draft when you factor in position. He'll be long gone by pick #5.

I, personally don't think Cherlius is a real starting NFL OT and that is the problem. Reid is fine especially as a RT but Reid/Cherlius would scare the pants off me re: Stafford's health. This is why I think if Backus retires, Fisher has to be at least, in the discusion.
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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How does everyone view Reiff? Specifically, does anybody think he can be an effective LT or is strictly a RT? I think this should be the #1 question that needs to be answered when entering the draft. If the answer is no then pray for Joeckel or try to move down to 10 or so for Fisher or further down for Lane Johnson if he impressed them at the senior bowl, or if they get their salary cap in order than maybe they could try for Long or Albert(longshot).

If Reiff is viewed as a LT, or if the Lions get a LT in FA/trade(longshot), than try to trade back to 10 or so for Warmack or further back for Cooper if the Lions think he is somewhat equivalent.

Than in the 2nd, draft Barrett Jones and with the extra 2nd draft Alford, Wreh-Wilson, or Trufant. Maybe follow up in the 3rd with Vince Williams.

Hopefully, the Lions will take advantage of coaching in the Senior Bowl this year, last time they didnt draft 1 player that they coached and I think that is a mistake, unless they were just that disappointed with the talent.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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How does everyone view Reiff? Specifically, does anybody think he can be an effective LT or is strictly a RT? I think this should be the #1 question that needs to be answered when entering the draft. If the answer is no then pray for Joeckel or try to move down to 10 or so for Fisher or further down for Lane Johnson if he impressed them at the senior bowl, or if they get their salary cap in order than maybe they could try for Long or Albert(longshot).

If Reiff is viewed as a LT, or if the Lions get a LT in FA/trade(longshot), than try to trade back to 10 or so for Warmack or further back for Cooper if the Lions think he is somewhat equivalent.

Than in the 2nd, draft Barrett Jones and with the extra 2nd draft Alford, Wreh-Wilson, or Trufant. Maybe follow up in the 3rd with Vince Williams.

Hopefully, the Lions will take advantage of coaching in the Senior Bowl this year, last time they didnt draft 1 player that they coached and I think that is a mistake, unless they were just that disappointed with the talent.
As much as I would love to be able to draft only Oline and give stafford good protection for the next 5-10 years, we can't afford to do it right now. If we do not improve the defense we don't stand a chance at the playoffs next year. Especially considering Avril is most likely gone.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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I hate when people say we have to go all defense in the draft.

For example, do people want us to pass on the #20 ranked prospect just because he's a WR, RB, or OL, just so we can draft the #35 ranked prospect who happens to be a CB or LB?

You can't draft like that. Obviously some positions will get downgraded in the early rounds, like QB or DT for us.. But you can't pass on talent to draft for need.

And I'm sure we'll pick a RB or WR early, which will cause everyone to lose their **** because WE NEEDED DEFENSE!! But whatever, BPA is the way to go with this roster.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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Best player available is so subjective though. Every team's board is different. You could say any player was at the top of your board. You watch the Lions and its obvious they need defensive playmakers. But keeping drafting RBs and WRs. Mayhew is a disciple of Millen. Lions did make a move to hire the Bronco's former GM today.

Jonte Green, Bill Bentley, and Chris Greenwood could be the DBs of the future. But can you pass on a Millner because of those guys?
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:23 PM    (permalink
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Best player available is so subjective though. Every team's board is different. You could say any player was at the top of your board. You watch the Lions and its obvious they need defensive playmakers. But keeping drafting RBs and WRs. Mayhew is a disciple of Millen. Lions did make a move to hire the Bronco's former GM today.

Jonte Green, Bill Bentley, and Chris Greenwood could be the DBs of the future. But can you pass on a Millner because of those guys?
I agree. I'm not saying I think we need to draft all defense. I am simply saying I would be shocked if Mayhew chooses not to draft a defensive player with our first our second round pick.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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If Joeckel is available at #5, I just can't justify letting him slide by us. Reiff is a good one, but he's a RT at this level. Great for the run game, but I think he'd be just mediocre on the blind side in pass protection. Having said that, I can't see falling to us. Eric Fisher has been gaining a lot of steam and rising up boards though, and I wouldn't mind picking him if he continues to shine at the combine. Otherwise, Moore/Werner/Milliner would all be solid in my books.

Second round (assuming we don't draft Milliner), I'd love to see one of Trufant/Poyer/Banks or a safety like Reid.

Third round would be nice to grab Schwenke to replace Raiola.

Later rounds (5 through 7), we look for potential DE/CB/S.

What I'd like to see most right now is a trade-down to pick up an additional second, ans then hopefully grab a starting S and CB with two of the three 1st/2nd round picks.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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I want Werner, no other person necessary.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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I agree. I'm not saying I think we need to draft all defense. I am simply saying I would be shocked if Mayhew chooses not to draft a defensive player with our first our second round pick.
Yeah, but offense wins in the NFL today, a team just needs the ability to score 35-42 points to be in contention every week.

If Backus and Raiola retire, our offense will take a severe nosedive and Stafford could be looking at possible serious injuries and we could find ourselves having to find another franchise QB.

I don't think Mayhew will allow that, he protect Stafford at all costs even if it means waiting another year to draft defense. He'll gamble that he can find a few defensive additions in FA as a stop gap measure, a DE, CB and a Safety, money permitting.

So our draft will come down to decisions by Backus and Raiola, they stay 1 more year, we draft defense, they retire, Joeckel ot Fisher may end up being our pick.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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Personally, I'm just really sick of other teams being able to find major contributors at RB, WR and OL later in the draft and yet the Lions keep striking out. IMO, if we solidified the OL, then it would make the chance of having a successful RB higher. And the more time Stafford has to throw, and if opponents have to respect a running game, the better it will make WRs look.

Either way, I think the Senior Bowl should be the number 1 resource for finding late round talent, or any talent for that matter. They really have an advantage with the real insight they've been granted by working with the prospects.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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If Joeckel is available at #5, I just can't justify letting him slide by us. Reiff is a good one, but he's a RT at this level. Great for the run game, but I think he'd be just mediocre on the blind side in pass protection. Having said that, I can't see falling to us. Eric Fisher has been gaining a lot of steam and rising up boards though, and I wouldn't mind picking him if he continues to shine at the combine. Otherwise, Moore/Werner/Milliner would all be solid in my books.

Second round (assuming we don't draft Milliner), I'd love to see one of Trufant/Poyer/Banks or a safety like Reid.

Third round would be nice to grab Schwenke to replace Raiola.

Later rounds (5 through 7), we look for potential DE/CB/S.

What I'd like to see most right now is a trade-down to pick up an additional second, ans then hopefully grab a starting S and CB with two of the three 1st/2nd round picks.
I like your thinking,
Joeckel OT
Trufant CB
Schwenke OC

This would be a great draft and the DE class is very deep so we could luck out there in round 4.
It is going to be a very tough year to trade, the draft is very deep and teams will be very reluctant to give up picks with so much talent the later rounds.
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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If Joeckel is there we have to take him. I don't think he is there though and I'm not sure how I feel about Fischer at #5 right now.

I also don't think we need to jump pre-maturely at declaring Reiff a RT. He hasn't had a fair chance to show that he doesn't have the ability to succeed at LT
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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Taking Joeckel would be pointless, we don't have a tackle issue. We have issues inside, but not outside the line.
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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Taking Joeckel would be pointless, we don't have a tackle issue. We have issues inside, but not outside the line.
Not sure how you consider it pointless. Gives us 2 young and cheap franchise Tackles. Paired with a young QB and a great WR. That gives you a solid foundation for the long term future
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:19 AM    (permalink
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I think I'd be celebrating Dee Milliner in round one. Is anyone else as enamored with Dion Jordan? If we moved up about 4-5 spots in round two to get him, I wouldn't object at all.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:36 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
Taking Joeckel would be pointless, we don't have a tackle issue. We have issues inside, but not outside the line.
Yeah but Jeff Backus isn't going to last forever and thus far Jason Fox hasn't been able to stay healthy.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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KVB and Peterman both released today.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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My questions/things I'm looking at for our 1st round pick:

1. Joeckel- Gets it if he outperforms Eric Fisher at combine and earns his top grade. He kept Mathews on the right, so I want to see more of him. Should impress.
2. Eric Fisher- Gets the pick if he performs just as well or better than Joeckel at the combine, cements the pick if Backus or Cherilus isn't back with us this year. If both tackles are brought back than he could slide back down to 4 with Moore and Milliner moving up.
3. Damontre Moore- Gets our pick if he displays his elite first step and explosiveness with an impressive combine. If he grades out as the elite "Von Miller" of this draft. Also, gets it if the tackles fail to impress and are too weak.
4. Milliner- Must run well and clearly separate from other CBs. Can't just be the beneficiary of playing for an elite college defense. How will he look when he's the only playmaker in our secondary?
5. Bjeorn- Gets it if he grades out as the top DE after the combine. Must display his power and speed. Has to weigh in properly and generate some buzz.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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Cool Lions Draft

A few thoughts my friends...

I understand the current rise of Eric Fisher. Im just not sure taking him at 5th overall is a good idea. I feel as if he has benefited from both Lewan and Matthews returning to school a little too much. Sure he has boosted his stock with the Senior Bowl and such, but not as much as Lewan and Matthews have helped him.

Because of these two guys returning, he has went from being somewhere from 15-25th overall... to top 5 overall? Top 5 overall picks should have a franchise changing impact and must be chosen wisely. I love Eric Fisher as a prospect, and while I would be excited to find the next Joe Staley or Jared Veldheer to protect Stafford, im not so sure he is it.

With that being said, when was the last time the Lions had a chance to take the #1 CB in the draft? The reason we got booted in last years playoffs was due to absolute poor coverage. I think getting Dee Milliner would be a huge step in the right direction. He would come in immediately and lock on to the other teams #1 WR every single game...and we havn't had that since maybe Dre Bly...and dont tell me Houston...

Your looking at someone who has been the clear cut #1 corner all year no matter who is coming out...and someone who COULD have been the 4th tackle taken if two others had come out...

I look foward to responses...
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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For me, Eric Fisher is all about being safe and securing a quality pick for us. We got burned with Titus and Jahvid. Fisher and Trufant are two guys that I firmly believe in and think will be solid starters at the very least. I worry about Bjeorn potentially busting and Milliner only being solid. I wonder how much improvement our young corners will have with this offseason and if the game will slow down for them. Their heads were spinning this year, but next year is a real opportunity for them to show something. Houston and the young guys should be alright if everyone is healthy. I look more to safety help.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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Is there any chance that Chance Warmack falls to the mid 20s and we trade up?
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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